Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (3622 of them)

The more interesting aspect of the haredi draft is that it could end Bibi’s coalition. I don’t anything about the current AG but I have to wonder if it was a deliberate move.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 1 April 2024 12:27 (seven months ago) link

Looks like the approved bombs are being put to use.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/01/israeli-airstrike-on-iranian-consulate-in-damascus-kills-irgc-commander

xyzzzz__, Monday, 1 April 2024 19:44 (seven months ago) link

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/01/1242177519/world-central-kitchen-workers-deaths-gaza

José Andrés, the founder of the World Central Kitchen that feeds people in war and disaster zones, said Monday that his organization has lost "several" of its international volunteers in an Israeli airstrike in the Gaza Strip.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 05:29 (seven months ago) link

a whole six months between 'we would never bomb a hospital, that must have been a hamas misfire' and 'check it out -- we've created a new standard for urban warfare'

mookieproof, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 05:42 (seven months ago) link

most of those 'several' are citizens of other nations. Hopeful the Australian death forces this government into some sort of meaningful action (sadly, doubtful)

H.P, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 05:50 (seven months ago) link

WCK’s Chef Oli, Ahmed & Damian are on the roof of our Gaza kitchen where we’ve built part of our water treatment system. With this equipment we're able to produce all the clean water needed to prepare tens of thousands of meals daily for displaced Palestinians.#ChefsForThePeople pic.twitter.com/8e9l7tflAu

— World Central Kitchen (@WCKitchen) March 2, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 10:23 (seven months ago) link

Just seen an IDF/gov propaganda ad in the Weather app I use >:[

nashwan, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 12:45 (seven months ago) link

Some really horrific details in this Haaretz article on the WCK bombing: https://archive.is/z3RU6

(I don't know how these archive sites work, but there are some grammatical errors there that may not be present in the paywalled, official version: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-bombed-wck-aid-convoy-3-times-targeting-armed-hamas-member-who-wasnt-there/0000018e-9e75-d764-adff-9eff29360000)

Hard to decide whether this was a catastrophic fuck-up or if this was the goal:

"On Tuesday morning, World Central Kitchen executives announced a temporary halt to its operations in Gaza, and that the ship that had departed to Gaza with aid shipments would return to Cyprus."

I guess we'll see whether killing citizens from US, UK, Canada, Australia, and Poland has any repercussions

rob, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:22 (seven months ago) link

Blinken, asked if US going to keep sending all the bombs Israel using to kill aid workers and civilians, does his best to make it sound like the US arms transfers to Israel are a constantly occuring natural phenomenon that goes on all the time

(•̪●) (carne asada), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:27 (seven months ago) link

Israel had to do this. You can't just go around giving people clean water.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:35 (seven months ago) link

I guess we'll see whether killing citizens from US, UK, Canada, Australia, and Poland has any repercussions

I'll give you one guess.

The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:39 (seven months ago) link

yeah I'm not holding my breath

re: Blinken. Reading this, I was struck by the fact that the jets won't be delivered for at least 5 years, meaning that no matter what Israel does now or in the future, the US is going to arm them: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/01/politics/biden-administration-f15-fighter-jets-israel

I'm not sure what technical poli-sci term should be applied to the Israeli regime, but another debate that now seems quaint is the "apartheid" one:

Number of Palestinians detained by Israel rises to 9,312

According to HaMoked, an Israeli rights group, the Israel Prisoner Service released its latest data on incarcerated Palestinians, which shows that 40 percent of those detained are being held in “administrative detention” without trial.

The organisation said the number of Palestinians incarcerated has more than doubled since October 7 but administrative detentions “were on the rise long before that date”.

The data does not include labourers from the Gaza Strip and others who were in Israel lawfully with permits on the eve of October 7, following which, “Israel cancelled all permits and has held these people, reportedly numbering over 4,000 as of late October 2023, in Anatot and Ofer military camps,” HaMoked said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/4/2/israels-war-on-gaza-live-five-aid-workers-killed-after-delivering-food?update=2813209

rob, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:44 (seven months ago) link

Three Britons killed. Public and political reaction entirely dependent on what colour and religion they are, of course.

The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 15:41 (seven months ago) link

Even if they are white and blonde they are helping the wrong side.

People here would be more angry if Israel had bombed dogs.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 15:55 (seven months ago) link

There have been so many different atrocities over the months and it’s really hard to not fall into despair over it because there’s nothing I can do. But the aid workers, it just got to me. Knowing how deeply the Famine scarred Irish history for over a century and how callous the British were in denying us food, and seeing the faces of the workers and the image of the van struck from above. I would always read about it in school and ask the same question: “why?” but it wasn’t until I was older and could be told that the British government viewed starving the population as, variously, payment for our sins and as a means of ridding the land of the surplus. It happens always in almost every conflict, people die from lack of food and clean water and no medical care so much more than in bombardments. It really got to me. I wept for them and the people they were trying to help.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 16:03 (seven months ago) link

I can’t express how angry and helpless I feel.

Slorg is not on the Slerf Team, you idiot, you moron (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 16:06 (seven months ago) link

It's somehow both numbing and wrenching at the same time

rob, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 16:25 (seven months ago) link

At a certain point, and this is a topic and coping mechanism that always fires off pushback, but one kinda has to cut off the spigot of news one consumes of the horrifying developments.

Like there’s no utility past a certain point of continually hearing further devastation if you’ve already reached a conclusion about the situation but are also aware that these are massively anti-democratic national mechanisms that none of us can do anything to actually change.

It fucking sucks, but the firehose of misery of news seems way too intense to not traumatize the fuck out of the heavy consumer of it. We’re seeing 19th Century-style genocidal shit to accompany the 19th Century notions of nationalism in play but with 21st Century weapons and media and none of that we are built for.

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 16:49 (seven months ago) link

I don't consume it non-stop like a few people I know, but I think that continuing to dispatches from the area as well as opinion pieces is really important, at least for me.

I mean

Walking through the streets of Rafah, it is evident that my neighbors are suffering immensely.

Every conversation is a quiet cry for comfort, an attempt to hold onto pieces of our lives.

The Gaza Strip has never felt as cramped or unlivable as it does now. Streets here in Rafah – Gaza’s southernmost city – are filled with makeshift tents.

We constantly stumble over one another as we walk.

After approximately 180 days of war, people have become somewhat desensitized.

Death is a daily occurrence.

Families can be wiped out entirely – or almost entirely. Anyone who remains alive will have to search for a new place to live and keep on looking for food after burying their loved ones.

The death toll is so high that we have been numbed.

Tears have dried.

Instead, we exist in a perpetual state of survival. Every moment is consumed by the urgent need to persevere during the ceaseless onslaught.

Muhammad Qeshta was a distant relative of mine. He was a kind neighbor with five grandchildren.

For nearly a decade, he was a diligent employee of the UN agency for Palestine refugees (UNRWA).

He was working at an UNRWA warehouse – distributing aid – when it was attacked by Israel a few weeks ago.

Fragments from missiles pierced Muhammad’s left eye, right shoulder and chest.

Muhammad died from his injuries within a week of the attack.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 17:02 (seven months ago) link

Meanwhile, many are of trying to leave, as explained here.

This is a lie. There are Gazans evacuating and people have been mobilised at the border in Egypt enabling evacuations and supporting them when they come through. The passage used to cost hundred dollars but currently is between 5 and 10k $ https://t.co/5LhWs6Vk4V

— Layla (@LaylaInBristol) April 2, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 17:05 (seven months ago) link

Kingfish, otm, unfortunately. It’s fucking awful.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 17:27 (seven months ago) link

I have been consuming less news lately in order to preserve my sanity but I feel that because there is also at the same time a firehouse of propaganda and misinformation that I need to keep up in order to combat ignorance (my own or others’).

Slorg is not on the Slerf Team, you idiot, you moron (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 17:27 (seven months ago) link

It’s so ugly that the natural impulse in leaving Gaza also serves Israeli’s purpose of “thinning out the population”.

Slorg is not on the Slerf Team, you idiot, you moron (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 17:29 (seven months ago) link

I don't really want to make things about me, but yeah this has definitely been affecting my mental health. I've ruminated on it daily for the past nearly six months. I read stuff, I listen to stuff. I do fairly little in comparison to how much I think. I feel (metaphorically) this mild nausea that's there all the time. Making matters worse, there is the frequent misinformation, the actual antisemitism, etc. and it can be easy to distract oneself with that stuff and not focus on the horrific bigger picture. There are a lot of hills I don't want to make my stand on, so to speak, even when I disagree with some of the things being said. All in the context of the feeling that I am both connected to and identified with Israel in ways I can't really escape, that make this very different for me from Syria or Sudan. And meanwhile seeing some people (although thankfully not that many) who I genuinely like or even love just unable or unwilling to cut through the fog they are in about the real situation in Gaza.

It is a persistently awful and gnawing feeling that something you grew up associating with liberation and empowerment of your own group is also oppressive and destructive to another group. I think this is the main reason a lot of Jews have a hard time facing the reality today.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:04 (seven months ago) link

Not to mention that we are in a historical moment of unprecedented amounts of direct access to horrors on the ground in near real time.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:05 (seven months ago) link

my wife is probably in a state of feeling frozen about what's happening over there, this feeling of anger and sadness at much of what's being directed at jewish people, even more anger and sadness about what's being unleashed on Gaza, the previous lure to visit Israel (really a feeling i don't think anyone who's not jewish can understand, myself included tbh) now canceled out by feeling that she never can and maybe never should go there. plus our son having his bar mitzvah scheduled, and her saying she's glad it's at a private non-denominational venue vs being at a temple, and feeling guilty about being afraid, and worried that she'll have to be afraid forever but also worried about the kid and his future, the future that's being perhaps partially affected by what Israel is doing.

and being surrounded by those who are callous on all sides. not just anti-semites using this as a moment to pop their heads up, realizing it's their time to shine a bit. as i said in another thread, someone we know just popped over there for an instagrammable visit to have a full course meal and some chat with other visiting influencer types, plenty of smiling faces in photos, while you've got 12k+ dead children in gaza. then he left to head right to SXSW.

i think she kinda wants to keep her head down and offer zero takes.

omar little, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:53 (seven months ago) link

"we're trying our hardest to accurately hit terrorists" https://t.co/RVM6EY0UFu pic.twitter.com/UnMhaijavc

— πατέρας raver (@mathaiaus) April 2, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:08 (seven months ago) link

So it seems that two former soldiers were among the British aid workers killed by the IDF. That changes things, even the right wing rags (which is most of them) are up in arms over this.

The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:10 (seven months ago) link

I think this might be the first time since Oct 7 that even Bibi said they fucked up. It actually might be the first time I've ever seen him apologize for anything, in fact.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:21 (seven months ago) link

horrifying on so many levels that's this is what it takes for Israel to take responsibility

symsymsym, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:00 (seven months ago) link

heart goes out to you and your families, Omar and MA

symsymsym, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:02 (seven months ago) link

Bibi also said something like 'this is war' implying that strafing aid convoys is just an inevitable fact of life

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:08 (seven months ago) link

That's typical Bibi language

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000

I mean, if you "remove all restraints" and give commanders autonomy, this kind of thing is pretty much bound to happen.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:10 (seven months ago) link

When it's a few Western aid workers who are the collateral damage, there's outrage. When it's tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians, who gives a fuck.

Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:11 (seven months ago) link

Archived version of the Haaretz editorial calling for an end to the war, which I think is a meaningful development:
https://archive.ph/HEin2

The editorial is not solely about the aid worker killings but also refers to their recent investigative report on IDF "kill zones" in Gaza (archived version here):
https://archive.ph/WV5ba

Hard to find words. It's really stomach turning and soul-darkening.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:26 (seven months ago) link

Flagrant war crimes

subpost master (wins), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:36 (seven months ago) link

I mean, more of them

subpost master (wins), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:36 (seven months ago) link

This week's incident cannot be distanced from the ease with which the IDF kills Palestinians in Gaza, as Yaniv Kubovich's March 31 report shows. His investigation casts doubt on the IDF's estimate that 9,000 of the 32,000 Gazans who have been killed in the war are in fact terrorists. Many of the reserve and career officers Kubovich interviewed say that the definition of terrorist is often a matter of wide interpretation. "In practice, a terrorist is anyone the IDF has killed in the areas in which its forces operate," said a reserve officer who has served in Gaza.

The report found that the terrorist designation is not based on what the individual was doing at the time he was targeted but on whether he entered the "kill zone" established by the local IDF commander. "As soon as people enter it, mainly adult males, orders are to shoot and kill, even if that person is unarmed," the officer said.

symsymsym, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:37 (seven months ago) link

unspeakable

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:51 (seven months ago) link

A terrorist is anyone we kill, and we kill everyone who enters a zone that remains totally undefined/undemarcated. Struggling not to make some comparisons here...

Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:53 (seven months ago) link

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war

IDF snipers deliberately targeting children

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 01:56 (seven months ago) link

They managed to kill one Palestinian among the seven aid workers so they'll be pleased about that at least.

The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 08:31 (seven months ago) link

ZZ, gyac, rob, Boring otm - it's both enraging and deadening that this is what gets the slaughter on the front of all of the papers over here, it makes it so clear that the "us to them" humanity ratio isn't 1 to 10, or 100, or 1000, it's literally zero.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 10:14 (seven months ago) link

Am I the only one seeing Matthew Miller smiling as he spews lie after lie in every sentence that comes from his mouth?? His face basically betrays "this is line I gotta* go with even though we all know its bogus, evil, and continues to enable these daily unspeakable evils".

*you don't gotta

H.P, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 10:40 (seven months ago) link

Sorry I realise that post should be in the other Israel thread

H.P, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 10:42 (seven months ago) link

Yeah mine too, sorry.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 11:24 (seven months ago) link

it's both enraging and deadening that this is what gets the slaughter on the front of all of the papers

That wasn’t my point tbf, it was about the parallels of prolonged starvation on the civilian populace & the murder of people trying to alleviate entirely preventable suffering

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 12:01 (seven months ago) link

It's enraging but unsurprising that this is what gets the greatest attention. At the same time, I have some hope that it will be a crystalizing moment and that it will open people's eyes to the way the IDF has been operating in Gaza.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 13:58 (seven months ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.