rip oj simpson

Gonna read this again tonight.

https://evergreenreview.com/read/in-memory-of-nicole-brown-simpson/?fbclid=IwAR03LpiH69JwFWjmQuxtEftz809B0Brj5PnZKUTWTemGaBccHOzkoto--T8_aem_AZqSjC7MBLbxwTJs_JoOQyXCC8mLxviBqPPWzzloKr1S5V7kiTpyVC7pFb5kbp-dAyg

The seven-part doc miniseries was fantastic.

In memory of Nicole Brown Simpson

Remember the video showing Simpson, after the ballet recital, with the Brown family—introduced by the defense to show Simpson’s pleasant demeanor. Hours later, Nicole Simpson was dead. In the video, she is as far from Simpson, physically, as she can manage. He does not nod or gesture to her. He kisses her mother, embraces and kisses her sister, and bear-hugs her father. They all reciprocate. She must have been the loneliest woman in the world. What would Nicole Simpson have had to do to be safe? Go underground, change her appearance and identity, get cash without leaving a trail, take her children and run—all within days of her call to the shelter. She would have had to end all communication with family and friends, without explanation, for years, as well as leave her home and everything familiar.

With this abuser’s wealth and power, he would have had her hunted down; a dream team of lawyers would have taken her children from her. She would have been the villain—reckless, a slut, reviled for stealing the children of a hero. If his abuse of her is of no consequence now that she’s been murdered, how irrelevant would it have been as she, resourceless, tried to make a court and the public understand that she needed to run for her life?

Honestly OJ Simpson is really absolute proof that the traits of easy charm and charisma are at best neutral ones, and never should be considered admirable ones.

Poor nicole. Honestly that period of American culture was probably both the worst and the weirdest, just how she was treated as an afterthought in the aftermath

thanks for that link, gyac

agreed. Nicole lived in hell long before she was murdered. a long history of abuse where he faced no consequences whatsoever, and this is what happens.

for people older than me, how widespread was the knowledge of his abuse before the murder? obv as a kid I wasn't as up on those things, but I felt like it mostly surfaced after he got accused of murder and that he and his handlers had done a lot to bury that.

So much of what we learned about her murder was suppressed, downplayed, or ignored at the trial.

Remember O.J.'s weird hidden camera prank show?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56DgQ8kM20

At the time, I was living on the other side of LA but I had friends who lived at the time a couple blocks from the scene of the murders... absolutely endless parades of news vans and helicopters circling overhead.

But yeah the Brown/Goldman murders were just one blur in my LA period that also included the LA Riots, Northridge Quake, my first taste of climate change via mudslides coupled with el nino deluges, AIDS crisis (captured beautifully in Silverlake Life), constant drive-by shootings (I lived right between VSLC (crip) & Pirus (blood) territories) & republican policy failure (driven largely by our Reagan/Nixon loving neighbors in the surrounding suburban counties)... not even mentioning economic recession and the closures of defense industry megaliths in the south bay... I guess by now you guys probably know why I love Lodge 49 lol.

Shortly after the murders I moved to SF and I now live not far from the Potrero Hill projects where OJ was born and raised, it's still a tough part of town. The locals don't really talk about him up here. Unlike Dame Lillard, Steph Curry and Kevin Durant who have legacy community outreach/youth programs in the city, OJ just had one faded mural at the top of the hill that was constantly being defaced until they finally painted over it.

https://i.imgur.com/bioZ6mD.png

"beautifully" should read as "poignantly", as while it is indeed a beautiful film but also the most soul-shattering watch I'd ever recommend.

the Kardashians wouldn't have happened without him, so there's that too

I remember working in a small factory when they sent the jury out, and I was just sure they'd come back with guilty based on what we'd heard - but the bookkeeper at the time said it would be not guilty, since they came back with a verdict so swiftly.. i.e. there would be way more deliberation before a guilty verdict was announced. That kinda blew my mind

I remember the opposite, at least from legal commentators on TV at the time--that the quick verdict was in line with the idea that the evidence was overwhelming for conviction.

The trial and the aftermath were so gripping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKfEtYYqSl4

I was in my high school cafeteria when the verdict was announced, and the one thing I remember is that a group of African American kids loudly cheered, while the rest of us sat there awkwardly.

When the verdict came out I was in the room with a Pulitzer Prize winning writer who celebrated the verdict because Toni Morrison had convinced her that OJ was innocent.

yeah, it was almost as though it didn't matter to some folks whether he actually did it or not, it was all about Mark Fuhrman and the racist LAPD

The look on Kardashian's face--standing beside O.J.--when the verdict is read is impossible to forget.

OJ’s trial simultaneously proved of both institutional racism and the fact the rich and famous get a different brand of justice in the system. Heisman winner like moves there.

I wonder if the people celebrating the verdict actually believed he was innocent or were just thrilled to see one of their own beat the system for once. it feels a lot like what you're seeing with Trump right now.

I was sitting in my undergrad Yeats class when a student asked if our prof could let us listen to the verdict on the radio. He said yes.

The center did not hold.

'one of their own'.. Trump?

The Bronco cannot hear the Bronconeer

That same job I mentioned upthread, the foreman's father ended up being the juror foreperson on the civil trial.. he got a bunch of offers to write books, etc. but declined them all

I don't think most conservatives really believe Trump is innocent (kinda hard to when he's committing all these crimes out in the open) but I do think they believe they're being oppressed and that the deck is stacked against them, which is why they get so much joy from seeing Trump skirt consequences for anything time and time again

I was in my high school cafeteria when the verdict was announced, and the one thing I remember is that a group of African American kids loudly cheered, while the rest of us sat there awkwardly.

― jaymc, Thursday, April 11, 2024 12:44 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same here, except it was German class and there was only one Black kid.

xp OJ did go to prison, probably for much longer than someone else would have for a similar crime (the sports memorabilia heist thing)

one of the all time great makeup calls

wonder if the Bills are gonna win a Super Bowl this year now

I saw a documentary re frogs question--can't remember the title; pretty sure it wasn't the great ESPN documentary, though--that specifically addressed how Black citizens (mostly older) from L.A. viewed the verdict today. And, at least in this one documentary, it was overwhelmingly tilted towards "We were sure he was guilty, but we were just happy to see the system work to our advantage for the first time ever" (especially in terms of Simpson's wealth allowing for high-priced legal representation).

I was in my high school cafeteria when the verdict was announced, and the one thing I remember is that a group of African American kids loudly cheered, while the rest of us sat there awkwardly.

I was in my dorm room. I had decided not to watch the verdict mostly because I had a huge test but also because I'd grown tired of the whole media circus around it. In the room on one side of me a group of suburban white kids were watching it, on the other side a group of Black kids. The difference in very loud reactions between the two rooms was very striking and I still think about it quite often.

my wife kinda speaks of the same thing as Mr Shasta, she lived at UCLA for the oddest three year period in the history of the city, 1992-1994, she was there for the riots, the quake, the pursuit, the violence in L.A. at the time was absolutely mind-boggling (there was one year where L.A. county averaged half a dozen murders per day iirc.)

i remember watching the pursuit during a party at a ranch back in rural IL.

We watched it in math class and one kid basically started saying all white people should riot afterwards. This was a school full of homophobic, racist prep kids so no shock there. the teacher said nothing.

Did not take long for racist concern trolling from the same people who victim blame women regularly. Obviously there were many valid reasons to be upset at the verdict but "an affront to white people" was a true Galaxy brain take

I used to write for a Miami Dolphins blog and I left because of the shitty right wing politics of the staff, one of who continued to claim for years that OJ was let off because he was Black (wealth had nothing to do with it, according to him), as if he'd missed the entire two hundred years of history.

I was curious enough google Fred Goldman today: "The only thing I have to say is that today is just a further reminder of how long we have missed my son, how long he’s been gone, and the only thing that is important today are the victims," Goldman tells Rolling Stone. "That’s it. I have nothing else to say."

I was on a supply-teaching job in the library of a school where I'd soon start teaching full time for the next 20 years when the verdict was read; I think about 10 teachers were gathered around a TV.

I must have been in school or class or my dorm when the verdict was read. Can't recall. But I do recall going to see "Speed" with friends in the middle of the car chase.

i would be interested to know if CTE contributed to the crime.

It was weird that you had to be up on all these esoteric trial elements if you wanted to have a conversation with someone back then.

Ha, the Friday night when Speed opened was the same afternoon as the car chase iirc. The friend I saw the movie with was talking to me about it that night (he had cable, I didn't).

it was smart but also fucked up for his defense team to frame the trial as a referendum on the racism of the lapd. if they hadn't done that, i don't think he would have gotten off. but it definitely didn't help the cause of holding police accountable.

that was one of the last great public spectacles before the mass adoption of the internet... everybody was still getting all their news from cable TV and talk radio

Besides Fuhrman, the other guy who most did in the prosecution was Dennis Fung.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-01-16-me-20335-story.html

i would be interested to know if CTE contributed to the crime.

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/ford-recalls-nearly-43000-bronco-sport-escape-suvs-due-to-gas-leaks-that-can-cause-fires/

lol, Ford isn't the only one recalling Broncos and Escapes today ...

I think it has to be a factor - we know now that people suffering from CTE are prone to fits of blackout rage and an inability to control their emotions. it puts a lot of OJ's weird behavior at the time in a different context - one kinda eerie thing about watching footage of him while the trial is going on is that he never really seems quite sure what's going on. I actually believe him when he says he doesn't remember exactly what happened that day. I mean, to leave so much evidence....

and the helmets they used in his heyday were thin shells compared to what they use today

xp does it make you stalk people as well?

At the exact moment the verdict was read out, hundreds of Minneapolis cops were driving in a motorcade behind the hearse carrying the coffin of my uncle the vice detective to Lakewood Cemetery for his funeral. Probably would’ve been a good day for a heist in the Twin Cities.

CTE could have played a part but his behavior wasn't atypical for abusers, OJ's abuse was pretty textbook, right down to rewriting the narrative in police interviews,blaming Nicole by saying she had a bad temper, and telling Nicole that her very protective sister was jealous and delusional or whatever he said. Classic gaslight tactics really. He was charming and manipulative. I don't know that I really buy the out of control blackout rage stuff, as much as I buy the idea that he was abusive, calculating in his control, and then tipped over into murder. I mean he was clearly following her, which is a bit more measured and requires a bit of forethought. I don't know what his public behavior was like leading up to the murder, but I was never into the impression that he was publicly losing his mind or anything.

I think Norm's being dry, I don't think he seriously changed his tune.

"maybe I was the greatest rusher to judgement" lol. Nice to see Spade and Miller getting annoyed anyway

Norm's standup special from like 2006 had a bunch of OJ jokes in it

Something I think I remember correctly (and concede that it's frivolous): along with Hugh Grant, O.J. jokes were part of how Leno was able to jump out in front of Letterman. He was making them almost immediately, starting with the (really lame) "Ito Dancers"; Letterman wouldn't go near the subject for a while, the idea being that murder wasn't especially funny. But at a certain point the Alan Alda rule kicked in--"tragedy plus time"--and he also had to jump on board out of self-preservation.

Prostate Cancer is releasing a new book: "If I Did it"

xp A quick google search confirms your memory:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/1995/06/11/dear-jay-since-when-is-a-double-murder-something-to-make-jokes-about/

In one show, Mr. Letterman cut off the noxious shock jock Howard Stern, who attempted to tell O. J. jokes during a guest stint, saying he just didn’t find much humor in double murder.

But even Mr. Letterman, whose ratings have fallen in recent months, is now telling O. J. jokes, and poking fun at Judge Ito.

Also:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/06/a-kinder-gentle

In the mid-90s, Letterman at first refused to tell jokes about the O. J. Simpson affair, explaining that he didn't think a double murder was funny—this at a time when Jay Leno had Judge Ito clones tripping over their robes in silly sketches.

I think Norm's being dry, I don't think he seriously changed his tune.

― jmm, Thursday, April 11, 2024 9:12 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

outside of people directly involved with the case or the family are there actually people out there who still seriously believe he didn't do it? or at least will say they believe he's innocent in public?

Yes. I saw archival news coverage around the time the ESPN series came out (I don't remember it being used for the series) and they had sound bites of O.J. supporters who were actually in tears and feeling vindicated about his innocence.

Should clarify, these were on-the-street interviews in L.A. when they announced the verdict.

oh, I meant like recently. I am sure a lot of people worked themselves up into actually thinking he didn't do it at the time but I'm guessing most of them looked back and went "naaah, come on"

One other thing that bothers me whenever I come across a claim of innocence - typically from someone who still adores him - is how they completely ignore his long and well-documented history of physically and violently assaulting his wife. How the fuck do you get around that even if you, say, believe in some conspiracy against O.J., and you still want to maintain some bootlicking friendship with him? It's really sickening.

Jesus, Laura Coates has Kato Kaelin on right now.

Kato is a huge Milwaukee Bucks fan he's alright

xxpost otm

Too many people had seen The Fugitive perhaps

two days ago my wife and I were watching an episode of Seinfeld which had several OJ references - it's the one where Kramer tries to sue a lady for wearing a bra in public

since she's from Mexico and didn't know anything about the OJ trial (she only knew the basics - he was a famous athlete who killed his wife but was found innocent) it made me hyperaware of how many OJ references there are in like, every comedy within the span of a decade. so many jokes she just didn't get. hard to imagine anything like that ever happening again, where even the minor details became huge elements of pop culture lore. you'd think the 2020 election/insurrection stuff would be like that but outside of the QAnon Shaman and the Rudy/Dildo shop thing it really hasnt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWjKHuCca9Y

Wow, that joke went way over my head.

Yeah it's funny I remember that and not making the connection.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/G7vxCwEB7FJJViuo/?mibextid=oFDknk

I met Johnny Cochran at a wedding in Florida a few years before he died. He was charming and funny. I asked him point blank if he thought OJ did it.

He laughed and said, "I can tell you are a smart man. You don't even need to ask me that question!" Then he winked and laughed and that was that.

Meanwhile, Alan Dershowitz tells NBC News he's saddened to learn that his onetime client had died. "I knew he was very sick, so I'm upset that he died. I got to know him fairly well during the trial."

FWIW, I remember when William Rehnquist died, Dershowitz pulled nothing back and trashed him. But hey, shed your tears for a wife beater.

Sure he was successful, handsome, a great football player, and a minor celebrity, but in the grand scheme of things that's diddly squat. After he wrote the book called If I Did It, he removed the last possible doubt about whether he was an unrepentant double murderer who escaped conviction and a morally loathsome human being.

I mean when he died the collective response was "good, fuck you OJ" so yeah not exactly a great legacy he's left

Which somewhat similarly-named actor will get OJ's role?
https://www.vulture.com/article/liam-neeson-naked-gun-reboot-release-date-details.html

https://www.cracked.com/article_41808_special-guest-star-oj-simpson-nearly-ruined-a-classic-simpsons-episode.html