rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

Xxpost Like what I mean is this - https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2024/trump-best-job-numbers-ever/

Trump himself is spouting the narrative most people critical of Biden's economy are parroting. It's been thoroughly debunked here. His legacy is a sham.

So what does Biden do to win these voters, when obviously one President's influence over the economy is mild, and he isn't going to tear down the establishments that enable the growing class division and wage disparities?

If numbers actually improve on paper, these voters say "well that may be so, but they're not good for me". Even though things probably weren't good for them under Trump either. Or they were, but for reasons having little to do w Trump (i.e..thry forgot they got a 5k inheritance one year)

If the numbers aren't good, these voters point to those numbers.

Neither President is going to bring prosperity or comfort to the common American. Which is why I'm a social issue voter, though I would be even if the economy was better under Trump because ethics are worth more to me.

It's a multi party problem, the conditions that lead to where we are today moved through Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, Trump, and Biden.

But the narrative that THINGS ACTUALLY WERE GREAT UNDER TRUMP AND BIDEN SINGLEHANDEDLY RUINED doesn't help because it's not actually true and gets him back in office, gets Nazis even more comfortable demonstrating on the street, gets protesters targeted and murdered, nominates another right wing justice that assures any progressive legislation at the state level are gutted or struck down federally, past won rights like interracial marriage or gay marriage lose their Federal protections, anti-discrimination laws vanish, regulation is gone and you start dying of e. Coli at Steak and Shake.

I'm being forced to drink poison either way, one that kills me over fifteen years, or one that kills me instantly

you're totally missing my point, but whatever dude, go off.

How am I missing it, exactly.

Like...idk how I could go further to like actually validate what you were saying in my previous two posts.

I'm speaking my own personal perspective here, lmk if I'm not allowed to do that

i mean, the world is quite regularly telling me that right now that I am here to fulfill only what other people want, so y'know what, I'll just take the hint

table's cranky, Neanderthal.

I guess that neither I nor many others with similar complaints are saying that things were better under Trump— only a fool would believe as much. What I am saying is that if Biden wants to win, which surely is what we all want here despite etc, then they need to do a better job than simply saying to people “you are delusional the economy is going great,” because whether it’s just vibes or not, that’s not how a lot of people feel, myself included. Messaging on social issues alone is not going to win him the election— messaging on “we feel your pain” type of stuff might actually work. They have to be able to point toward the good things that have happened in the economy while also acknowledging that a lot of these benefits have not been felt by many people, and that this state of affairs needs to change

table's cranky, Neanderthal.

it’s moments like these that i remember why i left this board for so many years

sheesh

he was giving a quick explanation to divert things away from you while also saying something to help Neanderthal feel better.

shit is too expensive. that's all i know. $15 burrito...get outta here...

i'd say i was better off cooking at home more which i do but shit's still expensive! thanks, biden...

sheesh

he was giving a quick explanation to divert things away from you while also saying something to help Neanderthal feel better.

I'm sorry for writing "vibes" and for offending you, hence my brief biographical sketch to contexualize my post.

But you have a habit yourself of divebombing a thread with an often crude remark, then flying away. I try to be as light as I can when writing here and I assume most posters are being lightly ironic too; maybe I come across as smug.

If the question is "why does Joe Biden refuse to craft a campaign message that appeals specifically to me and my friends?" then the answer is pretty much always going to be that in order to win, he has to gain the votes of a large amount of people that lean much further to the right than that.

Thanks for the apology, and for the feedback— (i mean that sincerely).

fwiw i post here in a pretty sincere way most of the time, even when i am
attempting humor.

If the question is "why does Joe Biden refuse to craft a campaign message that appeals specifically to me and my friends?" then the answer is pretty much always going to be that in order to win, he has to gain the votes of a large amount of people that lean much further to the right than that.

Thanks for the apology, and for the feedback— (i mean that sincerely).

fwiw i post here in a pretty sincere way most of the time, even when i am
attempting humor.

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table),

all good

Messaging on social issues alone is not going to win him the election— messaging on “we feel your pain” type of stuff might actually work. They have to be able to point toward the good things that have happened in the economy while also acknowledging that a lot of these benefits have not been felt by many people, and that this state of affairs needs to change

totally agree with this, and I think the fact that they are not doing that messaging is part of table's frustration (and mine, just saying "but we passed an Inflation Reduction Act" doesn't help)

like, lots of people are hurting economically

xp Moodles that post seems uncharitable to me :(

It’s kind of a fair point though — any ILX poster is approximately 100 miles to the left of the median Democratic voter. America is a right-wing capitalist country with a few somewhat liberal pockets.

but that isn’t what my larger point was about

^^ economic issues are a centrist problem as well!

nobody really likes biden is the problem. there are people who REALLY like trump. there are no people who REALLY like biden.

But there are also people who REALLY hate Trump. And not too many people that REALLY hate Biden. They may dislike him, but they probably don't actually hate him. Not the way Trump-haters do their hatin'.

but certainly people will vote for issues even if they don't love biden. abortion. uh, no dictators. that's an issue now. but also gaza on the other end. i'm glad i'm not a pollster. yeesh. complicated math.

nuh uh, trumpers and lots of even regular republicans REALLY hate biden. for real! they think he ruining the country.

Trumpers didn't hate Biden until Trump told them to. People like me (a decent sort, like you) have hated trump since the USFL days. That's a lot of hate!

i think that's something that a lot of dems don't get. there are lots of repubs and right wing people who think that biden is genuinely evil. like hillary before him. and they ignore that fact at their peril.

Higher minimum wages poll well and win in referendums, universal healthcare consistently polls well, most of the good feeling about Trump’s economic record comes from direct intervention he opposed (stimulus, extended unemployment).

The idea that ‘Americans’ are a mass of economic libertarians does not appear to be true. Neoliberalism is an elite ideology. If you were plotting the silent majority of Americans they’re economically interventionist and socially moderate to conservative.

when the gop wants, it can make people believe you are actually evil incarnate, even against your 150 yrs of cooperative legislative-accomplice history. it’s like their superpower.

some people will vote against their own interests just because it would anger the commie libruls on the east and west coasts with their edumacation and their godless reading skills

most of them can read ok it allows them to do some research on their own.

according to Mark Penn

lol no

There is truly no candidate the Dems could trot out that wouldn't be reviled as evil and country-destroying by the Trumpers. Even if Trump himself switched sides, he'd be reviled as evil and country-destroying.

Yep, the 24/7 Fox hate machine has a lot to do with that. Hillary, Obama, Biden, AOC, all evil incarnate.

they should probably stop loving Hamas so much

Does the White House have surrogates our campaigning, or is it too early?

Too early

“Around 13 percent of the voters who say they voted for Mr. Biden last time, but do not plan to do so again, said that his foreign policy or the war in Gaza was the most important issue to their vote.” https://t.co/xAY8Ny1onw

— Jacob N. Kornbluh (@jacobkornbluh) May 13, 2024

I blame Macklemore

it's a good point, what should Joe Biden do about the fact that 50% of voters think Donald Trump would do a better job on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict versus 35% for Biden?

Netanayu called me - I call him Benji, Benji - he called me and said 'Sir, sir - what should I do to end this mess?

the one thing biden has going for him is that most people don't care about foreign policy/israel/gaza. i know, i know, protests and its in the news and everyone here cares but joe lunchpail only thinks about it if a pollster asks him about it. it is how they say: thee economie stupeed.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/29/americans-top-policy-priority-for-2024-strengthening-the-economy/pp_2024-02-29_policy-priorities-00_01-png/

so biden better start cutting some more checks is all i'm saying.

i see the teacher who thinks he's kind of cool but hasn't committed to abolishing bullying altogether versus the bully whose dad gave him $1,000,000 when he was eight years old the other rich fuck kids think is too crude even for them but hey, expensive clothes are the most important measuring stick in the world, so whatever. i don't feel coerced into this binary, like i have some choice, nor do i find it too juvenile to describe the ongoing cold civil in the US. it is my lived experience since childhood

fuck donald trump

Higher minimum wages poll well and win in referendums, universal healthcare consistently polls well, most of the good feeling about Trump’s economic record comes from direct intervention he opposed (stimulus, extended unemployment).

The idea that ‘Americans’ are a mass of economic libertarians does not appear to be true. Neoliberalism is an elite ideology. If you were plotting the silent majority of Americans they’re economically interventionist and socially moderate to conservative.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, May 13, 2024 7:10 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

just wanted to echo this hugely otm post

also table otm. covid was a boon to me economically, while the last three years have crushed me. i know that's anecdata but i think he's right that many others are experiencing that. democrats are out of touch in the exact same ways they always have been. as it stands i'm not voting at all this year, taking a piss is literally a better use of my time. if trump wins i'm not catastrophizing like i was in 2016. there's a lot to worry about in this life and something that doesn't affect my material reality but makes a whole lot of people with unhealthy media consumption habits turn into absolute freaks won't be one of them again.

My only quibble is that when I hear anyone say anything good about the "Trump economy," all they ever talk about is their 401ks. It's all based on an idea that he was amazing for the stock market. Which is a dumb thing to attribute to a president, and there was nothing history-making about the stock market under Trump anyway, but that seems to be the embedded talking point. I have never heard or seen anyone giving Trump high marks for the COVID stimulus packages, I don't think that's what they mean about him being good for the economy.

"there's a lot to worry about in this life"

i aspire to make part of that "someone not me." not doing great, but voting seems like at least a gesture. xp

congrats for not traveling in poverty circles xp

and map i do understand you feel that no good is done by voting biden, i think it's little. but harms prevented...

xp nah i hear you