Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

When will the (non-ILX) open season on Israel stop.

BREAKING: Lula has withdrawn Brazil's ambassador to Israel.

— Read Let This Radicalize You (@JoshuaPHilll) May 29, 2024

felicity: idk why we have to consider or analyze a position that is completely unreasonable, condescending, racist, and not based in any kind of material reality. that's all i have to say about it

these thought experiments are getting more and more tedious to me, and are largely people tying themselves into knots trying to justify genocide, and in this particular case trying to pin it to a mentality that the israelis have and the palestinians don't, which is a totally fucked invention of this dumbass who sucks. i don't want to see this shit!

Well obviously you don't have to. Nobody's making anyone read this thread.

I agree with ivy. There are not two symmetrical sides to this conflict and anything suggesting otherwise is gaslighting.

the FP button is right there, folks

As you and your worthless conversations to this thread are ever-keen to remind us.

Contributions, ffs

He simply saw them as a rival group and national movement that was incompatible with his own national movement (which he was single-minded about pursuing for pretty much his entire life). He believed it was not possible to create a Jewish state without removing large numbers of Arabs from the land, because he did not believe they would accept a Jewish majority/Jewish state, and he may have been right. And I don't think he faulted them for not wanting to accept it. I have been grappling with this a lot, and it's part of why I want to read more about early binationalism, because I really want to understand if another way was possible. And if it wasn't, I still want to believe that another way is possible today.

Btw I really liked seeing this British political reporter with a huge platform say this about the (fucking centrists running the) Irish government the other day. But it’s nothing new as I said above.

Terrorism works https://t.co/BuNOVQxR70

— Adam Boulton (@adamboultonTABB) May 22, 2024

And just to be clear, man alive's posts are not the ones I am referring to.

“what if the Palestinians were self-reliant” motherfuck this racist motherfucker, the Palestinian people have survived numerous ethnic cleansing campaigns and genuine apartheid and this asshole has the temerity to tweet such garbage

hard to be self-reliant when insane 20- year old IDF soldiers can break into your house and terrorize your family for no fucking reason at anytime. like why are we even talking about this bullshit point

And tbc I wasn't defending the Haviv Rettig-Gur tweet, which I'm not even sure I entirely understand. But I was disagreeing with Eephus and therefore I guess agreeing with the first part of the tweet.

My partial understanding is that the demographics don’t support this, which I’ve seen discussed as “If everyone lived in one nation then Israeli Jews would cease being the majority”, which then directs back to a two state solution but then there’s the issue of non contiguous nationhood etc. Honestly I have no idea what a workable practical solution would be, but whatever it might be it’ll make the former Yugoslavia look functional.
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, May 29, 2024 1:23 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I know there are some proposals for a "federation" and the like. Like one state made up of two sub-states. Reparations in lieu of right of return, and/or some limited right of return. I don't think everything necessarily needs to be treated as a single unbroken state so long as Palestinians have self determination and equal representation in joint governance issues. The modern western nation state is only one model, and a fairly young one. I'd like to read more about these proposals as well.

Yeah that’s quite similar to the way Bosnia is divided between Republika Srpks and the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. My understanding from a friend who lives in one part is that it’s insanely segregated, her example was that she couldn’t catch a train directly between two parts (!). I think my main concern for functioning in such a state might be both under and overestimated: how do you live together in peace after that? Yet we do have examples of people doing so, albeit to varying degrees of happiness. In the end, nobody wants to live like this. It’s just what people are prepared to give up.

I agree with ivy. There are not two symmetrical sides to this conflict and anything suggesting otherwise is gaslighting.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, May 29, 2024 11:15 AM bookmarkflaglink

Yea, sorry, not trying to suggest there is a symmetry or gaslight anyone. Clearly I have been tactless and I apologize.

BiH still has problems but you can travel between the two parts easily by a pretty comprehensive intercity bus network. The rail system is practically non-existent anywhere in the country.

Yeah I did wonder when I was posting that how true that was. It’s a beautiful country but the little I saw when I visited made it very clear exactly how fucked things are not too far below the surface.

you can just publish this sort of thing in a mainstream magazine i guess - https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/live-law-die-cross-israel

We need to look for standards from within our tradition to set a moral example for the whole world, while making it more practically possible to defend our homeland.

Instead of bragging about the extra danger our soldiers experience for the sake of sparing enemy noncombatants, we should reject the premise that we Jews bear any responsibility for protecting the human shields employed by our enemy.

Instead of threatening Jews with arrest for praying on the Temple Mount, we should take a hint from the “Al-Aqsa” moniker our attackers gave to their day of savage invasion and let Cohens up there on the hill to slaughter lambs for Passover.

And above all—given that land is nearly all that matters to this death-worshipping foe—instead of repeatedly withdrawing troops from areas we have just taken over so we can deny having unchristian territorial ambitions, we should conquer, annex, and resettle parts of Gaza so that Jews and friendly gentiles both can live there safely.

What was that about psychotic Americans settling in Israel?

What in the brain rot did I just read

TBF, Tablet is only "mainstream" in that it's a website people who are online a lot have usually heard of. It posts extremely weird takes all the time.

Tablet is hardly mainstream

mea culpa, i am probably too online

yeah according to one of those web traffic tracking sites, it has 1/12th the visitors of Pitchfork

And probably three times the staff

And just to be clear, man alive's posts are not the ones I am referring to.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR)

yes, cosign

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/adjunct-professor-fired-depaul-assignment-war-in-gaza-public-health/

that tablet article strikes me as one of the most antisemitic things ever but maybe I just read it that way because I was raised a granola catholic who thinks dimly of vengeance.

It certainly makes Christianity seem like one of the greatest things ever.

From UK pol but this backroom fixer who lobbies for continued relationship with Israel has been fast tracked to become an MP at our general election taking place in a few weeks. He pushes appalling conspiracies like this.

Labour candidate for North Durham Luke Akehurst spread Alex Jones-style conspiracy about Gaza, claiming that Palestinian crisis actors staged videos of IDF atrocities. pic.twitter.com/h2bRdpqryx

— Karl Hansen (@karl_fh) May 30, 2024

Whatever party wins next month it is certain that hostility toward Palestine from the British government is to continue.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/30/two-more-us-officials-resign-over-biden-administrations-position-on-gaza-war

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7lEDW5OjXE/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just saw this shared on instagram, by my former college acquaintance who has some affiliation with reality israel, which is a group I believe this activist is part of, perhaps even a founder. I also believe she was someone who was strongly pushing the narrative that academia in the United States was infiltrated with rampant anti-semitism, and she might have even been somewhat adjacently involved with the Congressional embarrassments in recent months.

I really don't have any comments on this beyond that, just seemed like the right thread for it.

why bring pro-genocide bullshit here?

“here’s some pro-Israel talking points justifying mass murder, also I know this lady” like wtf

Something so grim about what I term Hasbara Honeys with balayage, immaculate make-up and enunciation straight out of a flight safety video.

"Turns out it's all their fault, not ours."

if you read carefully you'd see that I don't actually know this person at all, this dumbass I went to school with perhaps knows her and shared it, and obviously others have posted content from the pro-israeli side to shine a light on the type of bs being pushed. I don't know what you think my post was intended to convey other than disgust but allow me to say that type of content is disgusting but important to see.

And please I ask you, don't put words in my mouth, or imply something completely untrue about my motives.

Omar you’ve posted a lot about your family, your fears and your perspective over these threads. I thought you were showing it not to spread it in and of itself, but because seeing someone you know irl pushing this kind of content is really shocking. It’s hard to know what to say about radicalisation or how to combat it. I was reading an article a good while back about people with Qanon parents and it honestly was horrifying reading about these people trying to reason with their parents who lived in a different reality.

That's true, gyac, I don't really feel anything more than appalled by seeing that. it's sort of this helpless feeling seeing it, the complicated justifications which can be summed up as "this massacre was a good thing and here's why."

I'm irrationally annoyed by that lady's hypercorrect pronunciation of "Hamas" (it's spelled with a ح not a خ)

On further investigation, it appears that mispronouncing "Hamas" is just a normal thing that Israelis do? (I'll try not to read too much into that.) Didn't mean for that to be a cheap shot, I just find it genuinely annoying, in the same way that Anglo Americans saying "habañero" is annoying.

Sa-damm Hussein

Former president of Eye-Rack

The Former Guy

The book jacket for "A Problem From Hell" says:

"Samantha Power poses a question that haunts our nation's past: Why do American leaders who vow 'never again' repeatedly fail to marshal the will and the might to stop genocide?"

Right now she's firing people for reports on Gaza. pic.twitter.com/QWVJSjgZqk

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) May 30, 2024

People grow and change