Let's talk about BoJack Horseman, the new Netflix animated series (starring Will Arnett, Alison Brie, Amy Sedaris, Aaron Paul, etc)

I was surprised there doesn't seem to be any discussion on this yet, seems like it'd be right up ILXor's alley? It starts out like this Archer style super-cynical wise-crackin' show, but starts to get into some deep emotional stuff later on (we haven't watched the final four episodes of the season yet, so please don't include any spoilers about them), and so far it's been really good!

I really like how the main character is seemingly this jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold, but it turns out he's really just a jerk, and yet he's still relatable. I love all the little sight gags they get out of the fact that the world in this series in explicably populated by humans and anthropmorphic animals, like when the BoJack is about to hit an armadillo woman, and she curls into a ball and rolls away, or the Penguin publishing company with actual penguins, or when Princess Carolyn meets her rival agent, Vanessa Gekko, who turns out to be... a normal human woman. Also, the subtle nods to Aaron Paul's most famous role are kinda funny.

All in all I think this series has found a nice balance between Simpsons style absurdist gags and a continuing tragicomic plot; let's just hope the final episode don't screw this up.

"let's just hope the final episodes"

Here's a good review of the series by Willa Paskin, I think it summarizes nicely what I like about the show.

I like that Lisa Hanawalt did the designs!
Hated the first 3 episodes but the rock opera one sold me, and after that, the existential stuff.

got like ten minutes in

The episode where Bojack writes his own counter-memoir was by far my favorite, and the most moving, imo.

done watching things with bojack in the title

http://animeseal.com/movies/images/dragonball-z-bojack-unbound.jpg

never again

my girlfriend and i loved this, waaay better than i expected. i don't think you'll be disappointed in the ending tuomas.

We watched the final eps, and you're right, they didn't disappoint! Pretty heavy on the pathos (especially the penultimate episode with all the drug epiphanies), but I think they earned it, and it was nice that they didn't go for the easy route of neat closure, since the whole series has been so critical of neat closures.

But yeah, this was definitely better than I expected based on the first couple of episodes... I guess they wanted to lure the viewer in with all this quick-witted Simpsons-style humour before delving deeper into the existential stuff? I know Arnett's role in this makes the comparison easy, but I'd still say this sort of bait-and-switch cynicism-to-sympathy was kinda similar to what Arrested Development did. Apparently there'll be season 2 of BoJack, so will see whether they can keep up the quality as long AD did.

Or to put it more simply, Abbott OTM.

Also, Vincet Adultman was the best running gag I've seen in a comedy series for a while! And I loved how, in the end, even he wasn't a gag anymore (reflecting on Diane's comment on how it doesn't matter what we are "deep down").

I liked Vincent even more when I learned Maria Bamford does his voice.

I tried telling my coworkers about this show during lunch and I started tearing up a little when I talked about Bojack and Diane's final conversation. They were nice about it because, you know, BIG QUESTIONS, but I felt like a goon trying to make small talk about the tv and how the talking cartoon horse made me think.

And then cryin'.

Put on the first episode of this yesterday and ended up watching eight episodes in a row. Desperate to watch the remaining episodes but I think my boyfriend would kill me if I ploughed on ahead without him.

It made me think of Archer and Bob's Burgers immediately with its humour but with more laugh-out-loud moments. I was cracking up at Sextina Aquifina and BoJack's first childhood flashback. The pathos really snuck up on me - one minute I was laughing and then all of a sudden it was making me think about Big Thoughts and really feeling sorry for what, on surface level, are mainly unpleasant characters. I can see how people might find it both crass and cynical, and sentimental and schmaltzy, but I think it develops the characters enough to earn them sympathy.

Also:

"Well, I don’t really think about her all much. Obviously, I’m a fan of her early work, which both satirized and celebrated youth culture’s obsession with sex. But I do wonder as a third-wave feminist if it’s even possible for women to “reclaim” their sexuality in this deeply entrenched patriarchal society. Or if claiming to do so is just a lie we tell ourselves to more comfortably cater to the male gaze. On the other hand, I worry conversations like this one often dismiss her as a mere puppet of the industry, incapable of engaging in this discussion herself, an infantilization which is itself a product of the deeply misogynistic society we live in. But like I said, I don’t think about her that much."

If ever a show had a line for an ILX audience...

but I think it develops the characters enough to earn them sympathy.

I like how there isn't the sort of "nothing really changes" cynical status quo as with Archer, but neither does the show try to pretend there any easy solutions or cheap epiphanies that would allow the characters to magically change, even if they want to. Most of the characters are insecure egotists, bums, and procrastinators, but IMO it's the desire for change and the realization of how difficult it is that makes them sympathetic and human (even if they're talking animals).

yeah this show is absolutely ace.

the melancholy that gradually creeps into this show really got to me. i actually got a little weepy at the last couple episodes, which is uh not exactly something i expected to happen when i started watching this show.

I was watching Mr. Show earlier and this made me think of BoJack

http://i.imgur.com/Htv7vnN.png

Ha, a few weeks ago my bf put on an ep of this cos his son wanted to see it. His son is NINE. The ep was the one with the Lindsay Lohan-esque druggy character and by the end of the ep we were all errrr... maybe you shouldnt have watched that, young lad.

"whats heroin, dad?" Arrgh.

I like the show enough, somehow bojack reminds me of Troy McClure but I think thats mainly bcz his house, lol.

lol i remember being like 11 and my parents rented blazing saddles cause they wanted us to see it and they had to stop it after 3 minutes bc they forgot everything about it

In episode 4 of the new season, there's a banner that says 'Happy Birthday Diane and use a pretty font'. That is seriously one of the best jokes I've ever seen. I feel like it must be an old joke, but still.

episode 7 gets real

banner joke is a sequel to the "HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR PEANUT BUTTER, PEANUT BUTTER IS ONE WORD" banner in S1, sounds like

Oh, fish, I saw that one, but didn't get it. There's a callback to it later, with a t-shirt saying: 'I had a ball at Diane's party, and underline ball, I don't know why this is so hard.'

love this season, love this show

I'm rewatching S1 before starting on 2 and there's a second banner, CONGRATULATIONS DIANE AND MR. PEANUT BUTTER PEANUT BUTTER IS ONE WORD DON'T WRITE ONE WORD

i did not realise lisa hanawalt did the designs!
i watched one episode and kind of hated it.

Yeah, episode 7... And that final scene with the nice guy going 'Hey. Smile!' Yikes....

that and the chickens episode (5?) were tops for this season imo

I'm not sure I get this show but I did overhear one joke that killed me: One guy says to another "you're seeing the Stones tonight?" but later reveals that "Stones" was short for The Mighty Mighty Bos-"Stones"

Which episodes are Ryan Johnson in? Who does he play?

I would love to take down Hippopopolous and finally topple the acropolis of monstrous hypocrisy that ensconces us!

Is this the first animated comedy that's structured like a cable drama, with the giant emotional climaxes in the second to last episodes? Made it to 11, completely wrecked.

only a few episodes in but this season is great so far

I never thought I would say this sentence about a television show, but the autoerotic asphyxiation episode is the funniest thing I've seen all year

Excuse me, the Funky Spider-Man. The Two-Neck Squeeze. The Ol' Gasp & Goo.

Theres a new season? Neat. Must check it out.

Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities: What Do They Know? Do They Know Things?? Let's Find Out!

I'm ready to take on Hippopopolous and topple this monstrous acropolis which ensconces us!

Last 2 episodes were so brilliant and sad

Could never imagine it turning out that way from how it started, wow

(Talking about season 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESKjoxAmZg

spoiler: it looks great

I started watching this on the advice of my daughter, who frankly doesn't have a 100% hit rate for these things, but really kind of loved it. It was the simple jokes that did it for me in the end:

• The first banner with CONGRATULATIONS DIANE AND MR. PEANUT BUTTER PEANUT BUTTER IS ONE WORD DON'T WRITE ONE WORD floored me but then the two callbacks I spotted (as noted upthread) were just great.

• In ep 1 and 2 of S1 Mr Peanutbutter greets Bojack with "what is this, a crossover episode?" while Bojack accuses him of plagiarism. Then in S2 it turns out Hank Hippopolalous said it to them at the 1994 Animal Choice awards first.

• "Hey, I Think You Can Dance" and "Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities: What Do They Know? Do They Know Things?? Let's Find Out!" make me laugh every time.

• Actually, continuing to refer to it as Hollywoo does as well.

• In the S2 finale when Mr Peanutbutter is on the phone to Diane, then says that there's someone that looks really like her in the restaurant.

• Rutabaga Rabbitowotz's constant attempts to grease down his ears.

• Everything sticking to Charlie Witherspoons' hands.

• Every time Vincent Adultman opens his mouth.

So, S3 then. I'll avoid spoilers but:

• More great banner jokes.

• The underwater episode is a joy from start to finish.

• There's a joke that takes all season to pay off. And a callback joke from previous seasons.

• The episode from 2007 uses the same ideas as previous flashback episodes (generic music and shopfronts) and is none the worse for it.

• As with previous seasons, episode 11. Man.

• The Sextina Aquafina episode is possibly my favourite, especially Diane's inability to say "brrap brrap pew pew".

• Although the Oscar nominations episode.

• I could watch a whole season set in the Labrador Peninsula.

apparently i have not been paying close enough attention when watching this.

Watched the the underwater one last night, unexpected but really nice.

(we always pause when there are a bunch of storefronts/billboards/etc in the scene btw, so many good throwaway jokes)

I've found its very easy to zone out and miss a lot of the jokes AND important plot points in this, it requires an amount of focus when I'm used to letting shows like this kind of wash over me. You sort of have to retrain yourself to pay attention vs most tv, I also found myself rewinding not just to catch jokes but also moments where a character inadvertently says something profound about depression or bj's psychology etc

I'm not entirely sure what I think of this show sometimes it's a weird one but the moments of pathos draw me in more than the humor to an extent, it's a very strange juxtaposition

paul f tompkins as mr peanut butter is so good

4 = 3 > 2 > 6 > 1 >>> 5, where 1 is 'good'

I thought the whole thing was fine, not great, never noticed any particular jump in quality. By 'not great' I guess I mean it didn't speak to me personally, I enjoyed the wordplay and sight gags more than the tale of a depressed substance abusing washed up horse actor.

The show explores more of the other (far more sympathetic than Bojack) characters flaws and feels as it develops which really helps but that's a problem/challenge from the outset with most shows (animated or not) that only seem to get greenlit in the first place because they're initially revolving around a destructive abusive male.

I'm now more conflicted about S6 in retrospect. had some amazing episodes/bits, but it really did relitigate previous plotlines entirely too much, it was laborious and overly punishing, and there's a revelation about a previous event that makes BH entirely too much of a heel - it didn't need to go there

they could have condensed S5 and S6 into one season and wrapped it up - they didn't need to have TWO 'Bojack gets cancelled' seasons in a row

6pt2 > 2 = 3 = 4 = 6pt1 > 5 = 1pt2 >>>>>> 1pt1

first stretch by far the weakest in the series, I can see why so many people give up after a few episodes, assuming it's something else entirely

quality pretty consistently high from late s1 onwards imo, some things improved on rewatch. I get thinking 5 is a slight dip but the notion that it's actually bad or something is just weird. unless you just reeaally hate any kind of meta awareness on the show (which felt pretty necessary by that point tbh)

BJ didn't even get cancelled at all until late s6 despite everything, even then seems to be only temporary, which felt grimly realistic

i think it's sorta unsatisfying bc it mostly eschews character growth esp for bojack who i feel like maybe they intended at some pt to redeem but instead decided it would be more satisfying to just have him suffer for his sins. everyone is pretty miserable at the end.

maybe more "realistic" to depict "once a fuck-up always a fuck-up" but consequently less fictionally resonant somehow?

if he's "redeemed" somehow it feels a bit much given everything he's done, if he's appropriately punished it undermines the whole thing about powerful men getting away with shit that runs through the whole show, etc.

there are signs he may genuinely do better after the finale (he seems a bit more thoughtful, he likes honeydew now), his public rehabilitaiton seems inevitable, but possibly as an edgy Louis CK type figure, he may relapse and fuck up again, who knows, if you wanted closure i guess it's disappointing

i think the philbert stuff in 5 is really tiresome, like the question of "are we condoning this shitty dude behavior if we write a character whose whole personality is shitty dude behavior" is maybe the least interesting question the show asks in its entire runtime

6 nailed the cancellation plot imo

unless you just reeaally hate any kind of meta awareness on the show

lol maybe this is me. i don't think it was written particularly well though

but it really did relitigate previous plotlines entirely too much

for me it was like they spun a bunch of previous plot threads into this total car crash, it was both riveting and horrible (in a good way) to watch

of course, audiences hate meta [plotlines], when will [cartoon comedy-drama] writers learn?

I may be too kind to s5 bc I sympathise with the impulses behind it idk. still think “BJ the Feminist” is essential, Vance is such a great/horrible character, even more so in his return

Thanks all I'll carry on for a bit longer (instead of re-watching Seinfeld)

i’m more horse than a man (I’m more man than a horse)

trying to describe how I feel about this show in retrospect and the only concrete statement I have today: the Mr. Peanutbutter/Pickles relationship dragged on too long

Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2020 season is nominated in the 2020 ILX TV poll:

ILX's Best Television of 2020 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends After January 29, 2021

If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (3 minimum, 25 maximum, ranked by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail. It'll take five minutes; get to it!

Finally got around to watching this show. Yeah... pretty amazing. Also, maybe too soul-crushing to binge the entire series in one month, but yes. The first couple seasons I was already hooked because the drama worked AND it felt like peak-Simpsons and The Critic mixed together. For a second (basically, that amazing under-water film festival episode) I thought the show might actually be getting lighter... but, of course not.

The final season felt particularly brutal, and it was extra long at 16 episodes (split into two parts on release, I see) so that was tough to watch all the horrible threads of the series come together.

that penultimate episode still makes me shudder when i think about it (in a good way)

i guess this is a good spot to put raphael bob-waksberg's list of favorite tv shows

When Rolling Stone polled dozens of showrunners, actors, and critics for our 100 best shows ever list, we got a very unusual ballot from BoJack Horseman creator Raphael Bob-Waksberg. I had many, many questions, and he was gracious enough to answer: https://t.co/AANrLfbwWf pic.twitter.com/jO4mJnT32Y

— Alan Sepinwall (@sepinwall) September 30, 2022

That's great. Thanks for sharing

Tuca & Bertie has become my partner's Favorite Show, Ever.

For T&B fans,

Tuca & Bertie x Nucleus Tarot Totes & Duck Boat Pin Pre-Orders go live TOMORROW AT 6 PM PST!
Exclusively at gallerynucleus.com

Meanwhile you can check out our other Tuca & Bertie merch at

(Tomorrow being Thursday, Jan 19)

https://www.gallerynucleus.com/artists/lisa_hanawalt?

I like 'em! Not into pins, but I like 'em

Really just the most spot on depictions of mental illness in this show.

And so many details found on subsequent rewatches. My personal best catch to date was from the scene where Mr peanutbutter is sniffing Beatrice in an attempt to get her scent to find doll. He immediately runs over to hollyhocks coffee cup, which we later learn was being spiked with diet pills by none other than Beatrice.

Also, there’s a great recap of the view from halfway down by some you tuber that schooled me on so many aspects of that episode that I’d completely missed.

thanks for reminding me that I need to rewatch this soon!

You got it

this show was pretty good

not sure why fans are compelled to post the most didactic and moralizing bits from it all over twitter tho

Aspect of fan culture and most fans not entirely understanding why they’re a fan of something, and naturally just grab at the most explicit bit that sorta feels akin to why they like the show, perhaps

tbh the line I still quote the most is "two refrigerators?!? give my regards to the Rockefellers"

hahaaha

Not that I give much credence to Rolling Stone lists but they at least got this right:
https://imgur.com/mSSwvtH

oh fine:
BJH 2 No.1

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-lists/best-netflix-shows-1386323/3-russian-doll-2019-present-1386359/

Congratulations Bojack and use a pretty font

lol

" . . . why is this so hard?"

No, I said "D" as in "Birthday Dad"

not sure why fans are compelled to post the most didactic and moralizing bits from it all over twitter tho

I'm sure this show is great and all (seen 3 or 4 episodes, some bits are funny, should probably watch more) but yeah that "all the red flags look like flags" line gets posted everywhere and makes me rmde every time

first few episodes are mostly not great and put me off for a long time but they set up important stuff so you can't skip them either - I imagine a lot of people who'd love what the show becomes have given up too soon because of the generic "edgy adult cartoon" vibe early on

the emotional or moralising moments don't hit nearly as hard when presented out of context though

overall I probably prefer tuca & bertie though I wish I liked the 3rd (apparently last) season more - the first 2 are so good

The first season (especially the first half) is mostly set up because it's not a wrap-it-up in 22 min show. Its multi-ep arcs over season arcs, over multi-season arcs, over series arcs, and over a million other relevant and seemingly irrelevant arcs. Densely layered sight gags, goofy jokes, incredibly smart jokes, devastating subtext, and moments that will make you feel so seen you'll cringe. You need the setup.

I don't think the point of it is to be edgy. It's just not catchy like other adult cartoons. The jokes aren't always easy and neither are the storylines. They're long and complicated, although often they're not. I guess I'm trying to say watching this show is a commitment and you'll probably need to do it a couple of times. Watching a few episodes really isn't going to give you a clue.

And, yeah, the most quoted lines (red flags, etc) aren't going to hit like they would if you first heard them in context but they're such a small part of the series and aren't worth judging it on.

Tuca & Bertie is great, really sucks that it got canceled.

I need to watch Tuca and Bertie. Was it taken down in the great Netflix cancellation flood a few years ago?

I think it predates the flood. It was only carried for 1-2 seasons before getting picked up elsewhere

Season 1 is on Netflix, season 2 & 3 are on HBO 'Max' I believe

ahh okay. Yeah, im just mindlessly watching youtube supercuts these days so I might start this.

how is this shit fucking legal, Walmart selling bootlegs off of eBay

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bojack-Horseman-Complete-Series-Seasons-1-6-Blu-ray/5211934632

that being said, I am tempted to buy before Netflix discontinues it

they have a marketplace thing like amazon has where all kinds of shit flies until reported and then they pop up under a different name. I think amazon is policing them a bit more now.

you, too, might get approved to sell your wares via walmart.com!