The Thomas Pynchon Poll

this seems to presume he has published his last, or that nobody could possibly vote for anything new he publishes

Against The Day had the feel of a last masterpiece, to be fair. I might vote for it

I know it's the safe choice, but Gravity's Rainbow is the best book ever, so it has to be that one for me.

poor perverse POLL

m&d vs gr imo

GR always and forever

GR > ATD > M&D

but V., Crying of Lot 49, and Inherent Vice are the ones I've re-read most

been thinkin off and on of rereading ATD sometime

M&D for me, agree with Harold Bloom's assessment, this is the one that really moved me

of what ive finished - lot49>bleeding edge>vineland

have read parts of V & GR and ATD but p sure never completed any

I've only read four of these, and can remember next to nothing about V

comes down to gravity's rainbow vs against the day for me, though lot 49 is really a perfect little book - I don't know why I'm not that inclined to investigate his noirish ones, since I really dig the less panoptic single-protagonist approach in 49 (plus I love the film of inherent vice). I need to read mason & dixon but christ knows where I'll find the time

gravity's rainbow obv but i have a lot of love for Vineland

(and for everything through ATD tbh)

voted v cuz i loved it so much when i was young and i don't think it will pick up many votes. i think i'd have to go gr by a hair over m&d, still really need to read atd.

hard not to just pick gravity's rainbow, but throwing a vote at my sentimental favourite: m&d

Same here, think it might win bc of that

mason & dixon is so beautiful when read out loud

^^^

i must've done hundreds of pages aloud, alone in an apartment, on my single reading.

the only other book i've done that with on first go is moby-dick

Lot 49 one of the few books I remember having a really powerful emotional "can I handle reading this it's so intense" reaction to, so that one. Well, also because the only ones I've read are Lot 49 and V. and I really didn't like V. at all, had to force myself through. I've read the beginning of Mason and Dixon and it's clearly something I'd like but haven't made the time to commit.

I read 'em all in order.

V is great on its own and has some extraordinary vignettes but fades to merely good once he gets a handle on where he's going.

Lot 49 gets better and better every time you read it. Brevity will keep it from garnering votes, including mine, but it deserves real consideration.

gave up on my second run through it a few years ago for some reason. will need to revisit.
love the cover for the bantam paperback edition...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1422/5128877033_6a32c0bcc7.jpg

M&D affects me most and aligns most closely with my interests so i will click the meaningless poll option for that probly

the only other book i've done that with on first go is moby-dick

― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Sunday, December 13, 2015 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The Moby-Dick twitter really is the best lit-twitter account - really looking forward to picking it up and savoring its language over xmas.

Mason & Dixon is his best, but Bleeding Edge and V are the only two I can't imagine anyone wanting to vote for.

man fuck yall v haters i love that v *makes v w/ fingers wags tongue between them*

V is incredible! I look forward to reading BE again but yeah, not his best

GR > CL49 > slow learner > against the day > inherent vice > vineland > bleeding edge. haven't gotten around yet to reading the other two

based on the ones i've read, i voted Vineland.

M&P has the best prose, COL49 best plot + paranoid-funny mystery, Inherent Vice a gauzier version of same. Never read GR.

I need to re-read 49, which I've owned for for 18 years and only read 1 1/2 times.

only ever read 49, Gravity's Rainbow, parts of V, and Vineland (and a story from Slow Learner). GR wins.

that's the copy of 49 that I have (shown above). i'm irrationally attached to the copies of these books I got first; I also have the paperback V and other editions look weird to me.

the book crying of lot 49

M&D>GR>VINE>LOT49>V.>ATD
Haven't read the others.

I've only read Slow Learner, Mason & Dixon, and Gravity's Rainbow. M&D's my favorite by far.

have not read vineland, against the day or bleeding edge

any of those essential?

i just voted for against the day here. depends on your tolerance for freewheeling esoteric psychedelia, or whether indeed you live for such a thing

AtD is essential as far as i'm concerned. i've been meaning to give it a reread too.

bleeding edge and inherent vice are the only non-essentials imo. vineland is tremendous.

Only read 49 and GR. 49 seemed like a pretty great, quick distillation of Pynchon. Need to reread. Things got foggy for me during the last act.

GR was monumental. One of those reading experiences I will never forget. One section I think about a lot (and should reread this week) is when Jessica and Roger (I think?) go to church during Christmas to watch a choir and it pulls away for this beautiful exploded montage of everyone and everything at that moment. Remember having to put the book down and take a walk after that.

I think there's a little bit too much material in Against The Day although there's a lot of incredible stuff in there as well. The idea of taking all these kids and basically throwing them out across the world to be propelled by huge historical forces grinding into gear works really well and adds a lot of emotional heft, but there are other times where you can see the levers moving too obviously. After a while I could almost feel myself groaning whenever another Western chapter began, and the section in the Balkans really dragged.

Having said that, I love the sections with the Chums of Chance, the mysterious ship, and a lot of the writing about light and science is wonderful. I can't imagine being into Pynchon and not finding a lot to enjoy in there.

GR > M&D >> CoL49 > BE > IV > AtD > Vi > V (=SL?)

Not much in the top 2, as per others in the thread. I like M&D more, but GR feels so huge and inescapable.

Tight in the middle too. Matt DC otm about AtD – those Western chapters felt thin and long, but there was spectacular stuff in there & I think I should reread it. Love the relaxed Pynchon of the last couple, very soft for them.

i like inherent vice slightly more than lot 49 and feel like i'm alone there

anyway: m&d

http://i.imgur.com/UleKV0p.jpg?1

I enjoyed Bleeding Edge as much as Vineland and think Inherent Vice is better than either of those

this thread is making me think I've under-rated M&D ... he does things in M&D he doesn't accomplish elsewhere

Been thinking about Bleeding Edge a lot the last day or two, thanks to this thread. Read it once for a review and never went back, as I found it really unsatisfying - the protagonist was the only character I bought, also maybe the weirdness of a Pynchon book set in a timeframe when I was sentient threw me off in some way. Left me cold and indifferent overall though there were strong moments.

Something I touched on in my initial review - and that I feel stronger about now than ever - is that this book was SUPPOSED to feel flat and unconvincing. That in the end BE is a book about 2001-2002 that's actually mirrored on how we (all of us) actually process information age overload circa 2010-?, i.e. we're easily distracted and nothing's quite real or has as much weight as it would/should if we weren't so easily distracted. Not to say that Pynchon always resolves his conspiracies cleanly but this one just kinda drifted out of the novel's focus, as though suddenly the novel was bored, had had enough, was onto something else, like the protagonist making up with her husband. The conspiracy was just something exciting that happened online, then something popped up on another tab, and the novel's attention was riveted to that.

i was going to put m&e at the top of my reading list based on the earlier posts, but raymond makes bleeding edge sound very compelling too (and it's lighter).

i clicked atd over gr and cl39 to make sure it got some votes and also because thinking about reading it transports me in a way that makes me want to be in the thick of it again...

i agree with matt's criticisms upthread, but feeling stuck in the middle is also part of its charm... i love opening it.

light and time and explosions will never not be interesting; the photography stuff in particular was magic to me. film is magical and it does actually change time.

and is there any other conceivable context to explore the theory of quaternions at length?

also the mayo factory is maybe the all-time pynchon set piece gag...

plechazunga ftw there i think, or maybe the cheese-rolling festival... we should poll this

the big event in AtD is the TUNGUSKA EVENT!

i actually shouted out loud with happy excitement when i realised it was just round the corner, a chapter or so before it arrived, something like 'OH MY GOD OF COURSE"

AtD is kinda the one that goes straight into alternative history, so that makes sense...

I love the whole light/time thing in M&D, and one of the best parts is when the 'Black Hole of Calcutta' is described as a literal black hole, that distorts history the way black holes distorts light. Though of course, none of the astronomers in M&D has any idea what a black hole is.

oops i just realised i spoilered it for ppl who haven't read it, sorry abt that everyone who hasn't read it

>:-(

hmm what's the big event in Vineland?

Poppy Bush's vomiting on the Japanese prime minister.

:/

Vineland and Inherent Vice instead take place after an event, which would in world history terms just be called 68. That's kinda the central event in Pynchons ouvre, around which everything else circulates.

those two books in particular always somehow remind me of pere ubu's song "laughing":

My baby says: We can live in the empty spaces of this life
My baby says: Far away the stars are coming all undone
My baby says, my baby says: But that's far away, and we're young
My baby says: if the devil comes we'll shoot him with a gun
My baby says: We can live in the empty spaces of this life
My baby says: In the desert sands, our hearts are brighter than the sun
My baby says: When the devil comes we'll shoot him with a gun
My baby says, my baby says: And if he shows his face, we'll laugh

except pynchon's idea of an empty space is a teeming bustle of a space (and actually, given fred's idea of the importance of light and dark in some of the others, maybe more of the books now remind me of this song)

(mainly i just love this song, so probably everything reminds me of it)

The Argentinian revolutionary in Gravity's Rainbow has a really good discussion of empty space.

I want to stick up for BE but can't. Maybe someone who's more into it can post like one passage that ranks up with the best of 'em from any of the other novels, something to be a sort of guiding light for me to latch onto?

serious agree on IV the movie being nothing like BL

i probably would rank AtD top again, but I only ever read it cover to cover the once, and haven't been carving out enough time for pleasure reading to really dwell in it. the europe parts in the 2nd half fell apart for me on the first readthrough, with only the chums keeping me together. maybe second time round they'll click.

IV the movie isn't much like the book though (despite the fact that most of the dialogue is verbatim)

80 years old today.

I would like to make a "most difficult Pynchon passages/arts/chapters" poll, can I get some nominations?

1. Gravity's Rainbow - banana scene
2. Vineland - the thanatoids detour
3. Against The Day - the balloon boy detour

??

*parts, not arts

4. M&D Mechanical Duck

that's what I'm talking about, aw yeah

5. AtD - The Chums of Chance. Kinda…? Starts out cutesy-zany, then IIRC correctly crashes headlong into the main plot in act three.

Banana scene is not particularly difficult? It’s straight up slapstick, with a bit of metaphysical molecular memory? The adenoid dream much more peculiar and unexplained.

xp that's what I meant by "balloon boy detour" - that was the roughest part of any Pynchon for me

5. adenoid dream

(good call)

re: Chums Of Chance - the part where they are like trapped in some infinite loop?

Just finished Bleeding Edge this morning, actually. I quite liked it, and while I don’t expect anyone to consider it their fav TP, it’s a little sad seeing that 0 next to it.

I think I would have voted for Vineland. While I appreciated GR, it was marred by the fact I read it during the worst and most stressful period of my adult life. Maybe one day I’ll give it a fair do-over, but I’ll probably want to read M&D before I do (and am not looking for tomes atm)

6. V. -- plastic surgery scene

chums of chance stuff is all entirely joyful

the most difficult material in GR is the Bianca scene and the Pokler chapter. not in terms of understanding but in terms of, well,

you know,

actually the one misstep in AtD is the very final chapter of part 4, the last Lew Basnight bit, imo. left a very sour taste and a really weird way to end the climactic section of the novel

I’m not sure what kind of “difficult” is being talked about here, would have assumed hard to follow or something but these seem more like random scenes you don’t like?

Chums of chance (along with starting & ending the book) come back around about as often as any other characters and take many strange detours so you’ll have to clarify that one! (They also intersect with the “main” plot p much from the start)

actually the one misstep in AtD is the very final chapter of part 4, the last Lew Basnight bit, imo. left a very sour taste and a really weird way to end the climactic section of the novel

xp yeah they're pretty much a framing device for the entire point of the book. also i love them

what can i say, for all he's being satirical/critical sometimes tommy p's sexual politics come off as unbelievably gross

I literally just finished AtD for the second time a couple of hours ago so I’m v high on it

haha oh fair enough. it is about as thrilling as it gets

I guess I don’t see objecting to that chapter & not the whole lake/deuce plot that it’s concluding (& entirely in keeping with)? When Lew comes into it he thinks something like “oh Christ this is gonna be sordid as hell”

I’m v pro that plot, as queasy & sad as it gets

idk we might not have enough consensus for this, it was just a thought based on convo in the OBAA thread

for me "difficult" = I have to slog through it

Right I was thinking more along the lines of the spot on ur dial for that relentless & impenetrable sound

Yeah if it’s “bits I find tiresome” you’re prob not gonna get close to enough agreement for a shortlist, as evidenced by most of the stuff thrown out so far being what I’m p sure many readers would call “the best bits”

Closest thing to a consensus I reckon would simply be “the songs” (maybe it’s Stockholm syndrome but I think I have become a song enjoyer)

haha I love the songs!

The final part of Mason & Dixon. Though it reminds me of reading biographies of historical figures where the documents about their life stops at a certain point. And the rest is fragmented and filled with gaps.

Pynchon's songs are rough. They remind me of the skit from I Think You Should Leave with the old guy at the bachelor party who recites dirty nursery rhymes.

^ Don Bondarley, King of the dirty songs is very pynchonesque.

In GR, the more technical passages related to IG Farben, e.g. benzyne rings, stands out as something I struggled to work through.

Ok this thread inspired me to start mason and dixon. I’m 90 mins into the 34h audiobook. I’m finding it a bit hard to follow, and while I knew it’s not easy, I’m afraid it might become more tedious than rewarding. Does one get used to the language and style? Does it gain traction as it goes on or get more dense and confusing?

Personally I wd find it harder to follow an audiobook than to read it, cos of that density. Like a lot of (Pynchon's) books I read the first 100 or so pages 2 or 3 times before I settled into the feel of it

I cannot imagine trying Pynchon as an audiobook, it makes so much more sense on the printed page with the paragraph breaks and such

lol xp

I find reading a physical book about 5x harder than audio because that’s how my brain works. Physical book is just not gonna, it would take me like 6 months to get through. I did enjoy Lot 49, Vineland, and Bleeding Edge as audiobooks, but GR was tough, I nearly got a physical copy to re-read passages.

M&D broke me on the first three attempts. Plunged through on the fourth. I don't know that it gets easier, but I find the back half funnier than the first half. Although, now that I'm typing it, I can't remember a damn thing that happened.

lots of surveying iirc, plus Transit Of Venus calculations

also a great passage early on about the nature of bread and how it represents the four elements

Native American (Space) Jews
Mechanical Duck
Rock concert by Ben Franklin.
Lancaster, PA belongs to the devil.
Unbelievable framing device most books would kill to be as good as.
So many little set pieces.
His most emotional book imo.

I think all the big Pynchon books take at least half a year to get through for me? I mix them with shorter books, though, but they take their time.

M&D broke me on the first three attempts. Plunged through on the fourth.

Pretty much the same for me. First 20% or so was very difficult for me, I just couldn't get a good handle on all that was going on. Once I made it past that I was hooked. My favourite Pynchon.