Yorgos Lanthimos and other filmmakers of the Greek 'New Weird Wave'

In anticipation of The Lobster. (You should've seen Dogtooth by now, even if you are a cat person.)

https://www.fandor.com/keyframe/for-the-love-of-lanthimos

New Athina Rachel Tsangari is pretty good. Chevalier. (She also made Attenberg).

Loved the first half of The Lobster, was bored and annoyed by the second.

Was it just me/here, or did alps get completely ignored? Felt like dogtooth got a lot of buzz, and the marketing push for the lobster was insane, and in between there was alps which just came & went (I think it only got a single weekday afternoon showing here). Could just be a picturehouse thing, they are sometimes just randomly shit like that - tangerine got similar treatment. Just thought it was weird cause this guy's last three films are all kinda the same

I might prefer Alps to Dogtooth? Dunno, would have to see them again, prob. But Alps seems less heavy handed.

i liked dogtooth. lobster, i was very excited about, and loved the concept, but found the tone quite uneven, and the concept not quite fleshed out enough, or not concluded/followed through satisfyingly after the first half (the ending was also pretty jarring). beyond that, i wish he perhaps just did it in greece rather than with such a multi national cast. something about it didnt quite 'land' for me.

xpost - chevalier was excellent. one of my favourites from last year.

no more waves.

"There are no new waves, there is only the ocean" - JLG

How "new" is this wave thought to be? While Steve Rose's 2011 Guardian article reaches back no further than Panos Koutras's 1999 The Attack of the Giant Moussaka, the late Nikos Nikolaidis's See You in Hell, My Darling came out that same year. By that point, Nikolaidis had been serving up aggressively bizarre Greek cinema to international audiences for at least a couple decades. Does his Singapore Sling (1990) deserve a place in this discussion, or is it more closely aligned with weird waves gone by?

plus howdy, y'all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Death_(film)

Without having seen anyone of those films, from their description they sound more exploitation/genre-y than Lanthimos and Tsangari? Like, they would seem like stuff that the new directors build upon? It sounds interesting, would like to check them out.

Greece still makes that kind of films. A film called Norway was at CPH:PIX this year, it's a Jarmuschy vampire-pic with amazing lighting where the bad guy turns out to be (SPOILER) Hitler (/SPOILER). Again, the lighting was just incredible, all neon green with streaks of yellow lamplight.

Another kinda interesting guy is Syllas Tzoumerkas who's A Blast played here last year after being at Locarno. His debut Homeland was even better. It's a bit like the dreaded style of early Inarittu, but better, with absolutely amazing editing, where scenes often play out intercut three at a time, for maximum thematic effectiveness. A Blast did give me a headache, but he's one of a few newer directors whom I consider to have developed a unique style.

Without having seen anyone of those films, from their description they sound more exploitation/genre-y than Lanthimos and Tsangari?

Yes and no? Biggest difference I'd call out is that NN didn't traffic in the sort of stoic deadpan that's become fashionable lately. He isn't a genre filmmaker, but his use and view of female sexuality does reflect the sensibilities of an earlier era. Often overtly salacious, male-gazey, comically overheated. You can tell he's got roots in "the counterculture", but his later work is sui generis.

Cool! I will try and check out. But I would perhaps put that stoic deadpan pretty central to the 'wave'?

Yeah, and the contemporary (for want of a better phrase) art film in general.

i didnt know this many ppl were into these

I think Alps got less attention than Dogtooth in the US bcz of lower nuttiness quotient (also not Oscar nominated).

from Fandor interview, this theme intrigues me

Tatarska: It feels like this film is, in a sense, an ironic polemic on the current conception of adult life. Although, unlike in The Lobster, right now being single is, seemingly, pretty OK.

Lanthimos: I’m not sure if it is pretty OK everywhere. It might be OK to talk about it, make fun of it, but it’s not necessarily OK for people who actually are single. They don’t necessarily feel OK or [rather] are not made to feel OK by others. So, I think, there is still, you know, a lot to be discussed and it expands beyond being single. For me it is a very important theme of our film. It’s about how we structure our society and the rules around the house: how it’s supposed to be, what it means, you know, how we characterize these failures or successes by other people and by the systems that we create. How free we are in reality, to choose whatever it is we do. There are many many things one can start thinking about when they start exploring those ideas.

Just saw the Lobster. Yep, best film ever for the first half, like an Alasdair Gray story set to film. Then the second part dragged and dragged and was strangely predictable too. What a shame.

so strange. we rewarded Dogtooth just the other day and went into thus one not knowing it was by the same person. The number of parallels between the two films - from being a willing prisoner in a place with strange rules, to the self mutilation scenes, they're very similar films even if The Lobster has a slightly more comedic style

*rewatched, not rewarded

distro switch for The Lobster, US release postponed GRRRRRRRRRRR

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/01/the-lobster-release-date-postponed

Up next for Lanthimos, Farrell and Kidman in “a psychological revenge thriller with a hint of supernatural thrown in.”

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nicole-kidman-talks-join-colin-903288

i rewatched Alps... probably the subtlest and grimmest of Lanthimos's last three films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kohqtJANjQI

this seems like a stranger project for Lanthimos than the last couple of rumors:

http://deadline.com/2017/02/nicholas-hoult-emma-stone-rachel-weisz-the-favourite-movie-1202030153/

ooh, someone here liked Killing of a Sacred Deer!

was it you? I was kinda nonplussed by it

haven't seen yet

It was me. This type of thing is waaaay in my wheelhouse tho.

See also: We Need to Talk About Kevin, mother!, etc.

did you like any earlier YL?

yeah i consider your invoking Kevin a major warning...

I also loved Dogtooth, fwiw. Didn't catch Alps.

I seem to like Yorgos better when there's a pretty clear satirical anchor (as in Lobster/Dogtooth), otherwise it's just p(r)etty sadism. if there's a target here beyond the audience I couldn't detect it.

The audience and humanity in general, abstracted here to satirical ends imo.

I liked The Lobster, purposely missed last Monday's screening of Deer.

The blank affectless performances definitely elicit a few lols in this one but I couldn't escape the feeling of pointlessness.

I liked it best when it seemed to be straining to break out of Lanthimos™ territory, especially with the performances

:(

It's not that it was 'bad' per se, it's a smart script, the acting is great, especially Farrell who was made to play this type of stupid man. But The Lobster felt like such a step forward to me, and now he drops almost everything that made me love that film so much. Great use of digital in Lobster, Deer really seems to be shot on film. Such a wondrous world in Lobster, Deer just seems typical American suburbia. Exceptionally camera framing in Lobster, Deer mostly just seems typical arthouse, many steady cam movements, angles that mostly seems going for 'untypical' to make it different from Hollywood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SojHxpqswV8

looks promising

I p much hated Deer though, as noted here: THE LOBSTER (2016) - dystopian absurdist love story or something with Colin Farrell & Rachel Weisz

Wow, the cinematography looks so much better than in Deer. That looks kinda great, actually. Excited!

funny, the reaction throughout my corner of Film Twitter was "this guy is over"

Lol. What are they even looking for?

I think they think he's become a set of stylistic tics divorced from the thematic focus of his earlier features. I think it's way too soon to level that accusation even if I wasn't wild about KoaSD for more or less that reason.

Ok. Then I guess I think they really overrate the thematic focus of his earlier features :) But I'm mostly a fan of The Lobster. Also, I do think his films are quite different stylistically, mostly to his detriment.

Coleman, Weisz and Yanthimos doing a 18th century period satire? The only way this could be more in my wheelhouse would be if it were set in the 17th century.

...and had a Ian Holm cameo.

tbf I do think Dogtooth was pretty focused - still haven't seen Alps.

It's focused, but I've never found its themes and the way it handled them as interesting as other people do. Alps was probably less focused, but more interesting.

Ruffalo so very much the best part of this, tho I also laughed in spite of myself at some of the dialogue dyslexia. Actually liked a lot of the cast members floating throughout, Hanna on the boat, Kathryn in the brothel…

Ruffalo annoyed me at first, then I realized the arc of the performance is a big wink -- and like Stone he's plainly having a great time.

This film was very attractive and entertaining. The sets were very impressive, particularly the hotel in Lisbon. I liked all the cast and enjoyed the gratuitous costumes and nudity. I can't imagine I'll think very much about it again.

Portrait of a lady on fire is so not erotic

― B. Amato (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, January 25, 2024 8:04 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

What on earth is this take

― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 28 January 2024 bookmarkflaglink

a boring one

― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 28 January 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Actually anyone arguing Portrait was lame on an erotic front would be anything but boring.

I remember thinking it was a fine film but that aspect was too calculated.

I will grant that Girlhood is the better erotic Sciamma film.

I’m mostly with Anna Lee in that article - “I revelled in all of these until the sequence where Bella becomes a sex worker in Paris”.

I think the problem is that Lanthimos can’t resist going for maximum shock value in his films. And what you gain in shock value, you often lose in subtlety and nuance.

― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Thursday, January 25, 2024 4:56 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

adam_driver_more.gif

Portrait of a lady on fire was way too dignified and tasteful. Eroticism needs some tastelessness.

it was still fucking hot

I’m mostly with Anna Lee in that article - “I revelled in all of these until the sequence where Bella becomes a sex worker in Paris”.

I think the problem is that Lanthimos can’t resist going for maximum shock value in his films. And what you gain in shock value, you often lose in subtlety and nuance.

― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Thursday, January 25, 2024 4:56 AM (three days ago)

I'm curious where the shock value was in the brothel? After seeing a corpse stabbed (squishsquishsquish) and the possibility of a baby being punched was raised, I don't know what would pass that

There was initially a lot of nervous tittering and giggling and other noises from the old people at the screening I saw, but by that point I felt that they were fully invested in the silliness and/or inured to the non-step sex and nudity.

I wish she had punched the baby, this goof of a movie wasn't transgressive *enough*.

Shock is subjective, but for example you may be unaware that there was a slight cut required here in the UK for the sequence “depicting sexual activity in the presence of children”, as the British Boy are of Film Classification described it.

* Board

That was a Monty python bit 40 years ago

lol that was my first thought as well. was that part in the book?

Is it based on Alasdair Gray?

I didn’t love this movie? for most of the reasons expressed in that Guardian roundtable up thread. Also I started grinding my teeth at every fish-eye shot and feeling twinges of Luddism (or something) at all the AI-looking mattes

That said, I didn’t read enough (or any) mention of the amazing, amazing score, probably my favourite debut score since Under The Skin, Poor Things might’ve superceded that film in terms of picture-music symbiosis. It is a triumph of world-building, it makes me feel like the (mostly great avant- syncs) on The Favourite was not just a fluke in terms of what Yorgos wants. 100% pulling for Jerskin to win an Oscar for this, I was dazzled and jealous and inspired

the amazing, amazing score

Really is!

This thing is 2 hours and 21 minutes? Definitely looks like something that should be 90 minutes long.

it doesn't feel that long, or didn't to me

I thought it was a little baggy, but in the way of discursive wandering novels. It didn’t bore me.

I don't think it felt too long at 2:21, but I think it could have also worked at 90.

Most movies would work at 80.

My wife and I have decided that the ideal length for a movie is 100 minutes, plus or minus 10. We not infrequently factor that into our watching decisions. (tho yes we have seen Killers of the Flower Moon, Oppenheimer, and Poor Things, and any complaints we have about them aren't related to their length. So we're not doctrinaire about it.)

It helps that the sequence in Paris is probably the most compelling. Kathryn Hunter steals every scene she's in, in everything. It was so odd to see a film with such amazing costuming and amazing practical set design (I gasped when they showed the Alexandrian café), but then all these bizarre other-things that looked like Rob Liefeld using AI to design Magic cards

Lots of fantastic script moments, too. "Your sad face makes me discover angry feelings for you."

The dialogue really was the highlight

I loved all the pseudo-anachronistic profanity. How much of that is true to the book?

God I found that so tiresome. The Favourite is full of it too, of course. I just don't get it.

I never saw that one. I think I appreciated the tacit acknowledgement that this movie was aware of its own dumbness and not to be taken remotely seriously, lol.

I think I fundamentally just don't share Yorgos Lanthimos's sense of humour and I'm not sure why I keep watching all his films.

I liked The Lobster and ...Sacred Deer, admired bits of The Favourite and this one. His sense of humor consists of launching broadsides against imagined squares, which, well, you know, can be uneven.

I think Sacred Deer is his best movie so far, but it's also one I will probably never watch again.

usually where I am with him

Took me a while to stop thinking of Bella as a Nathan Pyle's Strange Planet alien, but ultimately really enjoyed this. Saw it with someone seeing it in the theater for the fifth or sixth time.

That said, I didn’t read enough (or any) mention of the amazing, amazing score

― a hyperlink to the past (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, February 4, 2024 3:01 AM (yesterday)

I said above that it was the strangest soundtrack I've heard in a while but I should have said it's really great, I'm looking forward to getting it someday and its probably the most original aspect of the film. Some moments of it remind me (this is a real stretch admittedly, very vague similarity) of the little semi-musical sound effects in Eve Of Ivan Kupalo.

Kathryn Hunter steals every scene she's in, in everything.

Loved her in The Tragedy of Macbeth a few years ago and also in this (and she also was amazing live in some Peter Brook-directed short Beckett plays and Caryl Churchill's The Skriker).

That grotesque tango music they dance to, where everything is played on the "one" but with a disgusting amount of swing, is especially striking

Felt very Tom Waits, iirc.

I loved all the pseudo-anachronistic profanity. How much of that is true to the book?

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, February 4, 2024 2:24 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

God I found that so tiresome. The Favourite is full of it too, of course. I just don't get it.

My guess is that this is a Tony McNamara (the screenwriter of both) thing. It was very much the style of The Great (which I still think is underrated) too.

I noticed that "The Lobster" will be playing at my local AMC theater on Feb 21, and I thought "Hmm that's weird" - did a web search and found that it's part of a A24/AMC series for February (plus "The Lighthouse" will be shown on Feb 28):
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/1afjnsj/a24_presents_a_lovers_series_february_7_pearl/

Oh and I second all the comments about the score, absolutely loved it and I'm curious to listen to it on its own.

Read some interviews and the approach felt very familiar to me (all the instruments were recorded independently for max control over texture, moving things around rhythmically, digitally pitching up and down and bending notes, etc). But I was shocked to learn that the dance scene was apparently all done with live music on set, with the composer actually playing that crazy steampunk instrument (?!).

I thought Ruffalo was Paul F. Tompkins at first and then couldn't stop seeing him as Paul F. Tompkins. It's such a Paul F. Tompkins role.

haha that's totally otm

I really liked this though felt Ruffalo was miscast. Stone held it down. The score is terrific - like Michael Nyman on 'shrooms.

loved the confession from Dafoe

https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/d4/51/4c/MESUVYJ_t.png

https://www.imghippo.com/i/631xA1712450583.png

https://tinypic.host/images/2024/04/07/vlcsnap-2024-04-07-01h18m49s487.png

Anyway, this movie was worth it for that one moment of Dafoe breaking character

Stone was fantastic, just like in The Curse, but Lanthimos needs to grow up a bit imo

This movie was good but I'm getting pretty tired of Tony McNamara's dialogue, and am glad to see that Kinds of Kindness isn't written by him. I also thought the score was the most striking element, really one-of-a-kind. Surprised that it was Fendrix's first movie score, because it feels very assured