Swots: Classic Or Dud?

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Specifically those kids who turn up every year getting 17 A-Levels at age 10. GRRRRR.

Two semi-serious qns lurk behind this:

Educational hothousing - classic or dud?

Are exams getting easier/less 'serious'?

Tom, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In my state, they're more 'serious' (there are ones in every subject and about three in nothing whatsoever, everyone has to take them instead of having different level diplomas, and no one will stop going on about them), but as a result they're becoming easier. When you make *everyone* pass an exam, you have to make them easier, or your schools are going to look incredibly bad.

Lyra, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i'm not convinced by the "getting easier" arguments at all. i think there is more of a focus on doing well than there used to be, and its not enforced from above, its aspirationalism, consumerism and stuff like that. its about the bling bling, no?

gareth, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, it's about teachers wising up to how to teach for exams.

Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Swots are definitely dud. What has being clever ever done for you?

School is far more important in teaching you the important lessons in life such as how to throw soggy toilet rolls into classrooms, and how to turn a silent classroom into pure noise through tactical humming. It also shows you your place in society. Liam Gallagher hang round with the stupid kids at school, and then formed Oasis.

Martin, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

swots = not clever as they have to WORK to do well in exams

You know where this is heading, but actually I was hoist on my own lazy botard and did quite badly at Os and v.v.badly at As haha oh.

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what's the difference between a swot and a genius? i'm afraid i'm not familiar with some english slurs still.

marianna, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always feel a bit sorry for the kids who, before they even get their results, hear some miserable old bloke on the radio going on about how the exams are too easy these days. Radio 4 and 5 Live were both at it this morning. You know it'll happen all over again when the GCSE results come out too.

I was a boff, not a swot. Boffing requires only the ability to piss off your mates by getting good results on no work at all. Ha!

Madchen, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

swot fr. swat var. SWEAT!! (just found that out). Genius = not really a slur even in England. Point being it is considered cool by some to do well at exams if you DO NO WORK AT ALL.

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What about spods? How are they different? I was a total swot at school and in the sixth form our French teacher photocopied my exam paper and passed it round the entire year to show people how they should've done it. Which of course made me incredibly popular. Since then I don't think anything I have done could be held up as an example of the right way to do something.

Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Point being it is considered cool by some to do well at exams if you DO NO WORK AT ALL.
Yeah, only after age 17. But the years of school before that are hellish.
I didn't get very high grades at MIT, but I did get an awesome as hell GRE score, which really bothered some of my classmates.

marianna, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am furious that on the days exam results come out, the gigantic effort a lot of pupils and teachers put in is constantly belittled. I got AAA at a-level today and I don't want to be told that I worked my ass off for the equivalent of about DDD 30 years ago. It's not helpful and frankly, stinks of bitterness. I have to also say, I don't think even the best swot could do utterly brilliantly, there has to be some intelligence lurking somewhere to do well. (BTW, wasn't meaning to sound arrogant, there).

Bill, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know about A levels getting easy, but about 5 or 6 years ago the SAT test scores were shifted... that is to say they were giving out higher scores or were made easier or something. This really demeaned those who got higher than 1500 scores, as all older brothers and sisters would say that one got such a score only because the tests got easier.

This hurt as much as being told that the only reason I got into MIT was because I was a girl.

Grade point averages vary so much from school to school. At some a B, B- and B+ are all equal to 3. Some allow A+ at 4.3, others don't count classes like Gym into your GPA. I find that that is a very frustrating thing to be used as a comparison when applying to colleges.

marianna, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Also Bill I think it is i. a TOTAL LIE (how was the comparison done, and who by?) , and ii, TOTALLY MEANINGLESS (what does the comparison mean). Speaking as someone who did said exams 25-odd years ago, and not nearly as well as "everyone" expected.

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As I am 28 it is now ten years since I got my A-Level results, the symbolic crossing-point between being reasonable and the knee-jerk suspicion that they *are* getting easier and that all these little bastards wrote their papers in txt msg speak and still got As.

That said one would hope to a 50-year-old man a paper from now would look easy as he has had 32 years extra to learn this stuff.

I will happily belittle General Studies though.

Well done Bill. What are you doing on the interweb if you just got AAA though?

Tom, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom - Oh yes General Studies is crap. (I did Classical Civilisation so got my fair share of 'lightweight' comments. But General Studies is definitely shite on a stick). Hmmm, my best friend is going out for a meal with his family, another one is going to a horrible nightclub (IKON, ick ick ick), another is still at school sorting out clearing, others don't even go to the same place and are with hundreds of people in different towns. Party on saturday though, which will doubtless be crap. Also, I went in really early so there was no one there to hang about with. (Not that, in most cases, this is a bad thing. Yes, I'm another bitter 18 year old, just what the world needed.)

But hey, I went to Sainsbury's just now! Woo hoo!

Bill, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I really don't think A-levels are getting that much easier. I remember using maths papers from as far back as 1977 whilst revising for my A-levels in 1993. The syllabuses were slightly different back then, granted, but they didn't seem any harder than the 1992 papers I was using at the same time.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

General studies was a joke. If you had a reasonably wide general knowledge, remembered a bit of GCSE French and your maths was up to scratch it was one big log falling activity.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I did the "essay" General Studies paper. It involved getting as many New Order song titles into the thing as possible. This then evolved into namechecking as many action movies as possible, until my essay was one big mess of crap references. A!!

Sarah, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hothousing, however, is dud (although small amounts I'm sure might be useful). Found this out at prep school over road from winchester college, where I think they were trying to 'prepare' us for the experience. Needless to say, I never went to winchester anyway, and reacted badly when I was in the top sets.

Bill, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In one of my previous jobs I worked for London Exam Board and Nick is right. Teachers are getting better at teaching for exams, rather than the nonsense of teaching the subject. If you practised five different essays on Troilus And Cressida for two years solid you too would get an A.

The Exam Boards are also getting better at asking the questions. Maths Question twenty years ago were rubbish, being all complex and not friendly at all. These days maths A-Level ask you to solve a specific problem, rather than doing a scary complicated piece of integration. Nevertheless it is a fact that in science in particular there is less on the syllabus now than there was twenty years ago.

Congrats Bill - I remember being at a similar loose end the day I got my A Level results and found myself wandering down the high street eating Phillias Fogg's devilishly hot tortilla chips because none of my mates wanted to go to the pub (cos they fucked up their A-levels because they went to the pub. Barstards).

Pete, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am the Anti-Swot. I always hated the kids at school who worked really really hard, although to be honest I don't know why.
A-levels: these are rubbish, as proven by science. Anyone who said results = better exam teaching is TOTALLY correct. Especially my Eng. Lit. course, where we basically just had to learn essays on certain texts, hence people on the course doing better than me when they have no interest in literature at all. Burn down the DFEE!

DG, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

if assume level of papers has stayed much the same since introduction of As (= 1970-ish at a wild guess, mid-60s surely at the earliest). Then my teachers had seven years past to crib from; Bill's had 30+ years to crib... Easier to teach to succeed? However teaching = MUCH HARDER THAN 30 YEARS AGO (not paid enough, endless stupid paperwork looking after pregant kidz w.nokia on crack)

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh yes the papers are the same, I compare my dad's history to mine (apparently you could keep them then) and the questions are virtually the same. Of course, in history this year, they had a bit of a 'stick all the most straightforward questions in it's the last year we don't care' bonanza, which did make it freakishly easy.

Bill, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

General studies was a joke. If you had a reasonably wide general knowledge, remembered a bit of GCSE French and your maths was up to scratch it was one big log falling activity

I don't understand. At my college, nobody did General Studies because it had the reputation of being impossible to get an A in (same with History). Sheesh.

Madchen, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My General Studies exam was legendary. I reproduced the Malcolm X chapters of Jose Torres's brilliant book about Muhammad Ali, stormed through the maths section etc. and got 296 out of 300. Ha.

Exams are getting easier - I did matha A level last year and got a B. Did it again this year and got 157 out of 160. Proof. Bill, is that Ikon in Coventry? Classy.

Greg, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, that's Ikon in 'Leisureworld' in Southampton, which is probably worse. I do believe they're a chain mostly set up in student towns. I refuse to go in there. Ever. I know my friend is only going cause it's free and she vaguely likes the people she's going with. I unequivocally disliked them. Unfortunately the fact that it's 'dress up as a schoolgirl and get in free' night makes it all seem much worse, as does her working at asda at the moment, but I'm sure she'll get over it!

Bill, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

....working in asda......

Tom, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Time for American fun -- what the hell is all this O/A level nonsense anyway? Over here we just have our SATs and AP exams, and we're *damn proud of it*! ;-) Swots in American terms -- er, well, I was one of them, I guess. It hasn't hurt me at all, aside from the fact that some people view my social skills as inadequate. Hey, I *like* living in this damp basement apartment with one flickering light bulb and a blow-up doll, dammit. Been a while since I've eaten, though, but I've still got that one large person in the pickle jar if it comes down to it.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You tell 'em, Ned. I'm *so* proud of my SATs. Well, let's not mention them, but APs aren't so bad.

We have Regents exams in my state, and the chemistry and biology ones are definitely getting easier. The layout for the chem exam I took is going to be redone and a new one offered next year; the new reference table has the ENTIRE organic unit on it, among other things. There go weeks of study and memorization that the next class isn't even going to have to bother with.

I think I must be a swot. Eep. I at least pay reasonable attention in the subjects that interest me, which is every one but math, so they are not difficult. I don't really have a good reason for doing this except that I am preparing to grow up to be either an ass-kisser or a poor starving writer.

Lyra, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Who says you have to choose?

Josh, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Who said she was planning on choosing?

Uh, swots are duds cos you get everyone correcting each other in contexts where the corrections don't matter. Or claiming to have thought of something first, i.e "I said as much in reply to your reply on the Melissa Etheridge thread". Even non-swots are suffocated by the greenhouse atmosphere.

Being a swot is a dud cos it means wasting your youth and not finding out about it 'til later when you realize you've lost your ability to care independently and you meet people who really care about what they're learning. Who are also infected by the hothouse atmosphere created by the swots.

youn, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I aced my exams way back in the day and didn't have to work that hard to do it. I used to break swots over my knee in school on my way downtown to buy records, thrift clothes, NME/MM, The Face and i-D. The eagerness to please those in authority and rampant conformity got on my nerves just a bit...which led to many opportunities for classroom satire. Teachers liked me because they were old liberal-tarian softies who REALLY hated the brown-noser elements in their classes, but I didn't use gift for lampooning to court them. If they didn't like me, they were authority junkies. But they're always in my mum's shop asking after me (it's a tight-knit suburb and she went to all the same schools as me, so she knows a few of them still).

So effortless was this school career (it got me my scholarship and Escape To New York ticket) that I really didn't learn about working hard, so I tend to blow off things that take *real* effort and procrastinate due to ability to land on feet, come up trumps, etc. A little hothousing (my mother didn't believe in that Little Man Tate shit for HER genius) might have taught me a bit more self-discipline in the long run.

suzy, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Being a swot is a dud not so much in relation to the outside world but in relation to the "academic world".

youn, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You know what, Suzy? Had we gone to high school together, we would have been the male and female versions of pretty much the EXACT SAME PERSON.

Dan Perry, Monday, 20 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can believe that, Dan. It's the whole Minnesota thing. You either believe there's a Lutheran aristocracy or know it's the most classic definition of Mutually Exclusive Terms that nature/society can offer.

High school was great for me because after the bullying stopped, most days were Suzy 1, The Inept Masses 0. If they gave grades for eyeball- rolling I'd have got A+. But hardly preparation for the real world where this is not the case.

suzy, Monday, 20 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Here's what I don't understand about the rising pass-rates: when I was at school I was told that they were *fixed*. A bell-curve was plotted of the scores and a certain pre-determined percentage of examinees got an 'A', a certain percentage got a 'B', etc. I took my Maths 'O'-level in 1984 - an unusually easy paper - and was warned afterwards not to be so confident of my grade: "this is not like '82, when 68% would get you an 'A' - I think we're looking at 85%+ this year". Perhaps this was all rubbish.

I shan't hear this talking down of General Studies. It was my only 'A' at 'A'-level, for crying out loud. The 'lessons' in Sixth Form were a treat (one only afforded to me in Upper 6th, due to a timetable clash the previous year) - obviously you couldn't be *taught* anything for this paper, it was just a case of getting out the day's broadsheets and having a natter about current events. Strange how those doing arts/humanities 'A'-levels, who'd been perfectly able to gain adequate 'O'-levels in Maths the previous summer, suddenly fell apart on the CSE-level Maths section (and the slightly trickier Spatial Relations section) of the General Studies paper.

Michael Jones, Monday, 20 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Lyra: you are in NYS, no? In my day (early 90s) the Regents exams were a bit of joke, so I can only wonder what they are like now.

Along the lines of what suzy says, since it wasn't much of an effort for me to get good grades in high school, I am not that good at work that requires planning ahead and not procrastinating.

rosemary, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

four weeks pass...
Regents exams in the sciences are a joke. I don't understand how people fail them after working for a year. History and English take an effort, though.

Lyra, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)


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