'One' - what is wrong with it?

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One thing that has always frustrated me is the way English speakers look on 'one' as an generic pronoun (as in "When is one supposed to listen to a walkman if not when out walking?") as something poncey and to be avoided in speech at all costs. Replacing it with 'you' just causes confusion and the need for No, I didn't mean you yous. The French are quite happy with their 'on' equivalent, so why can't we be? Is it something to do with this much-vaunted English anti-intellectualism?

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Once more I apologise for having bothered to get up this morning.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Lack of non-gender-specific pronoun is a real problem, and I will NOT say 'he/she'

― dave q, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I tend to use 'they' which is really ugly.

― Tom, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Stop hijacking my question with your third person neuter pronoun problems! Emma, what are you on about?

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well Nick seeing as how you picked on my post for an example of the terrible misunderstandings caused by English anti-intellectualism I was deeply upset. But then it is mid afternoon and my sugar and nicotine levels are low.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Have a fag break. No sympathy for anyone today because I have a thundering pulsating headache that is surely an aneurysm.

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I tht this was a question of genuine urgency, after the manner of WHO BUT A FOOL WOULD CONSIDER FIVE A SATISFACTORY ITEM TO STAND BETWEEN FOUR AND SIX, ALLEGING ITSELF TO BE A NUMBER AND ALL, BAH

― mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick, staring at the computer is the very worst thing you can do if you have an aneurysm. Take a fag break.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

staring at the computer is the very worst thing you can do if you have an aneurysm

Really, I thought that was dying? The prognosis seems not as bad as I feared. I'll take your fag break advice just as soon as I have finished my vegetable cottage pie.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH 'ONE'?

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It sounds affected. Enjoy your pie.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes. No-one wants to sound like Prince Charles, do they?

― Tim, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Another problem with a non-person-specific pronoun is that it ends up being used where a specific pronoun would be more appropriate thus causing ambiguity of a different kind. This is the case in French where 'on' has become synonymous with specific 'nous'.

― scott, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes. No-one wants to sound like Prince Charles, do they?

I do.

When I put on a British accent, I get told it's really good but people start calling me Emily. What does that mean?

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So is the fundamental problem that people are stupid and incapable of using words in a discriminating way?

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes, and we all consider ourselves to be told now and will ensure that in future our grammar is flawless. Humble apologies.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh lighten up you harridan. I say 'you' for 'one' all the time to avoid peer group . And I'm always making a mess of my grammar. I was just confused by the way something that is actually right is frowned upon. My suspicion is that it's because people think it's just a posh way of saying 'I'. For which you can maybe blame posh people as I think they might sometimes actually use it in this way. My other thought was that it might be an anti-intellectual thing because 'one' tends to be used in quite abstract sentences.

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

peer group = peer group riducule

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Harridan!!!

I have lost any sympathy for your aneurysm now.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

riducule = ridicule. This cold run and run.

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This aneurysm is clearly affecting the part of your brain that does spelling.

― Harridan Girl, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

One thing about the net that's funny is that half the people on it are real sticklers (sp?) for grammar and spelling and will put (sp?) after words they are not sure how to spell. The other half treats the net as a nonformal, immediate communication device. I prefer the nonformal approach. Who must one impress with one's writing skills, anyway? Is one seeking a job on the net? Is one a writer and hopes to be in the public eye so one is trying to sound as intelligent as one possibly can? The other thing that's funny is that these formal writing nerds will go out of their way to acknowledge any type-o's they've made so that others won't poke fun at them. Why are they so concerned? Because that's what they do to the nonformal netusers who blast off a paragraph w/o proofreading. While the formal users pat themselves on the back and laugh, the nonformal user types out something like this:

Dood, you r so smart

― nude spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I say "One", but I have a geordie accent, so it doesn't sound poncey, unless you come from benwell, or some such place, in which case you'll probably punch me, and I'll run away.

x0x0

― |\|0|2/|\4|\| |=4'/, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

NudeSpock: the web can be nonformal and can be immediate (doesn't *have* to be either though and waiting that extra day to reply can make all the diff. between a bad discussion and a good one). But like every written media it helps to make your points as clear as possible, and not proofreading can work against that. Spelling I could care ass about - fucking up grammar can change the meaning of what you're saying though.

― Tom, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like the rotal wee. I tend not to use one for all the reasons Nick alludes to above and frankly its use in that form has pretty much died out now. Still that's English for you, too many words, not enough pronouns.

Little boncerned about Spock's huffy response above though. Firstly the spelling thing goes back a long way on this board to Anthony - for whom Nick was his private spelling tutor. Secondly I agree that informality is a great thing however its useless if one is trying to build a consistent arguement about something. There are formal and informal threads on ILE and if you are going to piss in our pot then you need to know what piss is. (I'm assuming this is an informal thread - and exists merely for Emma and Nick to work out a bit more of their love/hate relationship). If you want to be informal and construct ideas sloppily then that is fine, but don't then get annoyed when people do not understand what you are trying to say.

― Pete, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dude, NS, take some prozac today, designer amnesiac, you'll feel better and go back to your lovely cheerful parading self.

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

for whom Nick was his private spelling tutor.

Nah, that was (is) the pinefox. I like trying to write clearly (which usually means correctly). I admit, Nudey, that correcting mistakes after the fact where the meaning is clear is pretty dud and wish I'd stop doing it. It's anal retentiveness, but that's my thing. Kinda. Actually, it's not really anal retentiveness. It would be more accurate to say that it's trying to shove a turd back into your arse after you've had an accident.

With respect to dyslexics, the weird thing is that I do find I get on better with good spellers. That's a gross generalisation, but the correlation is definitely there.

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

NS is just jealous of my amazing touch typing and my ability to talk proper, innit?

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My goodness, Ally's gonna read into everything I write today, I guess. I was making a humorous point. Check yer funnybone.

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I love it when people respond to an obviously joking response pointing out how highly developed their own sense of humor was in their post and that people missed it.

I think he is jealous of our fantastic mad touch type skillz.

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I love it when people equate every instance on the internet with all the other instances on the internet to help them undestand these instances better.

― Nude spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I love everything

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Especially me.

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

One wouldn't wish to appear to have a proper grasp of the English language, now would one? That would lead to social isolation from one's peers.

― Nitsuh, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Unless one's peers were peers.

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I use 'one' on Usenet. I don't here, or in everyday e-mail or speech. I consider it the correct (but formal) generic pronoun.

But what do I know? I pronounce 'often' as 'Off-Ten'. Dastoor has been known to cross the street to avoid people who do that.

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think I say "off-ten", too. I know it's supposed to be "offen" but that just sounds bufordy. It reminds me of someone who never ever pronounces the "g" on words that end with -ing. Another word like this is "mature". It's "ma-toor" but it seems almost everyone says "machoor" and you stick out like a swollen hemorrhoid when you pronounce it correctly.

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always say "off-ten", just like I rather psychotically insist on properly pronouncing the name "Anthony" even though everyone I hang out with in NYC says "Ant-knee". I like sounding like that, it always provokes a, "What, you think you're better than us?" reply.

Or drunk men in bars asking me "Are you British or something? Offff- ten".

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bufordy is a word i like. What does it mean? What's this ma-toor business? I thought that was just the American pronuciation. It's not quite 'ma-choor' either though. Something like 'ma-tewa'.

Anyway THANKS MIKE for making me look like even more of a tyrant than I am. Pronunciation is a whole different issue and I'm all in favour of crazy individual takes on it. And this whole thread wasn't about getting grammar wrong, it was about the conscious avoidance of a specific, useful aspect of English.

― Nick, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

WHo let the pronunciation police out. I am the laziest speaker in the world and offen miss out the entire middle of words just to get to the punchline quicker.

People say I slur but it is much more complicated than that.

― Pete, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

complated

― the quip police, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

comted

― Pete, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bufordy basically just means "I can see a guy named Buford doing that". It's also an insult: "you buford!" A good time to use this insult is when someone says, "How do ya figure?" instead of the more normal "why", "what do you mean" or even "how come?" Also, if someone says "pizzer", "winder" or "reckon", they are a buford.

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what if they say "aryan"?

― mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one loves the royal wee

― Geoff, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My writing is horrible before I go over it a second time because I never know whether to use "you" or "one". I switch, which is worse than either.

― Lyra, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Then there was the time Robin got annoyed with me because I allegedly was typing in a West Country parodic style. Aar, Jethro, 'em wuz worryin' moi e-mAAAAAAAil.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Due to some weird anachronistic quirk on my part I do all my browsing/IL* posting in text-only lynx. There's no good way to edit long posts in lynx, so I can't go back and check that words are there and thusforth. This tends to make my sentences start in one place and end up in another, stream-of-consciousness like.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A buford would and does say "areen".

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I never reread my posts, I post as is.

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sterl: I see you use Lynx/2.8.3rel.1 libwww-FM/2.14 SSL-MM/1.4.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a (heh heh logs are cool). That editing business always annoyed me too (used to use 2.7 usually) but on my new machine I use Lynx/2.8.4pre.5 libwww-FM/2.14 SSL-MM/1.4.1 OpenSSL/0.9.6b and have found to my joy that it lets me bail out of any text entry field to the editor of my choice. You will want this, I think...

― Josh, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Geek. :-P

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bring the love!

― Josh, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have decided to use the word "one" as often as possible, for the historical record.

― Ally, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Also for the record: "Limelight" by Rush came on the radio last night. He says 'one' the whole time.

― Josh, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

LIVING ON A LIGHTED STAGE APPROACHES THE UNREAL FOR THOSE WHO THINK AND FEEL IN TOUCH WITH SOME REALITY BEYOND THE GILDED PAGE CAST IN THIS UNLIKELY ROLE ILL EQUIPPED TO ACT WITH INSUFFICIENT TACT ONE MUST PUT UP BARRIERS TO KEEP ONESELF INTACT chorus; LIVING IN THE LIMELIGHT THE UNIVERSAL DREAM FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO SEE THOSE WHO WISH TO BE MUST PUT ASIDE THE ALIENATION GET ON WITH THE FASCINATION THE REAL RELATION THE UNDERLYING THEME LIVING IN A FISH EYE LENS CAUGHT IN THE CAMERA EYE I HAVE NO HEART TO LIE I CAN'T PRETEND A STRANGER IS A LONG AWAITED FRIEND ALL THE WORLD'S INDEED A STAGE AND WE ARE MERELY PLAYERS PERFORMERS AND PORTRAYERS EACH ANOTHER AUDIENCE OUTSIDE THE GILDED PAGE chorus solo chorus chorus THE REAL RELATION THE UNDERLYING THEME

What an extraordinary work. You're rather overstating the 'one' quotient, though.

― Nick, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The 'not pronouncing the 'g' sound of words endin(g) in 'ing ' thing bothers me too. I've noticed a number of singers with this habit, though it doesn't bother me much in music for some reason, only in RL.

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I back Nicky D and I think he is apologizing far too much. He should fight his corner a bit more.

+ cf. my earlier comment re. Get A Room. Hooray!

― the pinefox, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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