A thread for Stranger Things, the "Goonies meets X-Files" new Netflix series (with SPOILERS!)

There was already some discussion on it on the general Netflix thread, but IMO it deserves a thread of it's own. And it's nicer for people who've watched the first season to discuss it here without needing to avoid spoilers.

IMO the whole 80s nostalgia felt kinda gratuitous at first, but of course as an 80s kid I also enjoyed, and I really thought all those signifiers helped people ease into the whole Goonies/E.T. vibe the makers were clearly aiming for... The whole idea that something mysterious and weird is lurking right behind the boring everyday life in a small town, but it doesn't go fully into David Lynch style cruel & adult suburban horror, I liked how the tone was always kept safe enough that actual kids around the same age as the kid protagonists could enjoy it.

Also, of course the whole commie paranoia aspect worked pretty nicely with the 80s setting, it had enough distance to real-world issues of today that it didn't feel like they were exploiting real fears to produce family entertainment, which might have been the case if the series was set in the present day, applying present day paranoias (like the fear of terrorism).

And of course the setting allowed them to avoid some plot problems that might've risen if it was set in a time period where cell phones and the internet are commonly available.

As for follow-up seasons, Johnny Fever posted this in the other thread:

Just watched an interview with the producers who say if Netflix grants Stranger Things additional seasons that it's not going to be an anthology series like American Horror Story or Fargo; they're going to base it around the same characters in the same approximate time—which, if you've made it all the way to episode 8, seems hard to believe. But I'm on board.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), 17. heinäkuuta 2016 10:53 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IMO the follow-up is pretty easy to make with all the clues they set up in the final episode. Most importantly, it's heavily implied that Eleven didn't die but was transported to the upside down world. Her body isn't found, and Hopper is leaving Eggos (her favourite food) to the forest where we know the wall between the two world is pretty weak. And Hopper himself seems to be involved in some kind of X-Files work now, what with the men in black seemingly recruiting him at the end of the episode.

And then of course there's the baby monster Danny coughs out, which was the most obvious setup for the next season. And we still don't what happened to the upside down dimension... Since it has the same buildings as the "real" world, it seems it was once inhabited by humans, so what happened to them and why is it now infested with monsters? Seems like there's a lot of material still left to explore in a new season, I'm all for it.

Sorry, I meant to write Will, not Danny.

Am I the only one who felt casting Modine here was completely pointless? The three or four scenes where he got to actually do something could've been done by pretty much any second string TV actor, he never felt really threatening or anything.

Ryder was pretty good on the other hand, though her role was pretty one-note, it mostly went along the old "hysterical mother eventually finds the strength to face the monster" trope, a la Shelley Duvall in The Shining. Interested to see whether she gets to do more in a second season. The sheriff guy's "young John C. Reilly" impression and Eleven's intense innocence were the best bits of the show, acting-wise. Would totally watch a show revolving around those two only.

Frodo and the other three hobbits were all okay, but kinda interchangeable. The kid playing Sam was clearly the best, or at least he got the funniest snarky lines. Hope the second season elevates him beyond the comic relief role he mostly had in this one.

It's not like Modine is getting top billing jobs anymore, so his casting seemed appropriate. Also, they might be able to young him down a little bit if there are flashbacks in the future.

The only—ONLY—thing I found disappointing was the monster's design. Seems those featureless "venus fly trap" faces are so commonplace now. And while they do sufficiently creep me out, I guess I was expecting a better reveal.

I though all of the kids were amazing, even the teens. All the adults too. Nancy and Michael's dad was so exquisitely one-note and aloof.

Eleven's mother was the woman the chief and Winona went to go visit, yes? The story about the miscarriage seems like something that would have been used to cover up just literally stealing a baby.

Yeah, agree that the monster was disappointing and too "common horror creature" looking... They shouldn't have shown it properly at all, or it should've been truly faceless or something.

One interesting thing that was barely touched: it seemed like the Demogorgon wasn't really a "monster" per se, just an animal looking for something to eat? Even the creepy things done to Barb and others seemed to be just to provide food for its growing young. It felt like they could've gotten more out of the fact that Modine's character was the one real monster, but that wasn't really explored.

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Eleven's mother was the woman the chief and Winona went to go visit, yes? The story about the miscarriage seems like something that would have been used to cover up just literally stealing a baby.

Yeah, that seemed to be case. At first I feared they were gonna reveal Eleven was the sheriff's girl who didn't die after all, but thankfully they didn't go there, that would've been too appropriate.

I was waiting for them to reveal that Will was really the biological son of the sheriff

Also, I felt kinda bad for Barb and her family. So much of the show revolved around Will and how sad her disappearance made everyone, but at least he was saved! Barb's mom was shown in exactly one scene, and we never saw if her family even found out what really happened to her. In most cases I thought Stranger Things managed to avoid the worst cliches of the '80s movies it was emulating, but here it felt that because Barb was so clearly the "attractive teen girl protagonist's not-so-attractive best sidekick", her fate could just be hand-waved with barely any mention.

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I was waiting for them to reveal that Will was really the biological son of the sheriff

Wasn't it said that the sheriff had been in town for only 4 years?

And that he used to work in some bigger city before that? Probably lost that job because of the trauma of her daughter's death.

details

I think it was implied that he's only been back in town for four years.

As for Barb, I thought it was a pity she just ended up as story fodder in the end, but maybe her parents still believe she ran away?

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall one of the deputies asking the sheriff whether it was like this in the big city, or something like that?

One thing that's been bugging me, and it's definitely not ruining the story for me in any way, is that if the gate to the Upside Down was only opened by Eleven recently, what was the creature feeding on before it could get topside?

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Can't imagine the sheriff not telling her parents that she died, even if he wouldn't/couldn't tell all the details.

xp Yeah, I think he grew up in Hawkins, moved away to Indianapolis, and then moved back after his daughter died and his marriage dissolved.

One thing that's been bugging me, and it's definitely not ruining the story for me in any way, is that if the gate to the Upside Down was only opened by Eleven recently, what was the creature feeding on before it could get topside?

Well like I said above, since the upside down world had all the same buildings as the real world, the implication seems to have been that it was once a normal parallel world that was inhabited by people, possibly parallel versions of the people in the real world. But then something had happened and the creature(s) had infested the world and eaten everyone there.

xpost They seemed to be setting something up, with the sheriff asking if Will was gay in this weird way. And the other cops saying he used to sleep with Winona.

And presumably the backstory of the upside down world will be explored more in the next season? Especially if Eleven is now stuck there.

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Yeah, I guess they could still reveal him to be Will's father. But that'd mean he was having an affair with her while he had a wife and daughter, not sure if they want to go there?

We're going to need a full character chronology to sort this out

Joyce and Hopper probably have some kind of ties back to high school, because he seemed to have some weird relationship with Lonnie (competition, disdain, something).

This was like the perfect blend of Spielberg and Stephen king

Was that a hatched egg hopper stopped to look at when they were in the upside-down?

I thought so. Nice Alien reference.

I wasn't sure, not after will choked out that baby slug

I imagine the snakey thing that Hopper pulled out of Will's throat hatched from the egg, then left a little creature thingy inside him to do...what? Who knows.

Eleven is the monster, guys

i.e. she created it

why was will still alive but barb was dead?

Will found hiding places

And was incubating the thing

i.e. she created it

Did she, though? Whenever she was in that black space with the wet floor, she could hone in on already living creatures (people to eavesdrop on), but there's no indication she could ever manifest something into being. She just brought it back out with her.

Xps yeah but the monster snatched him, right? So how did he get away?

And how did the monster get the scientist dude in the elevator at the beginning?

It came through a hole between the dimensions in the ceiling.

Yeah, it was a bit dodgy that the creature dragged both Barb and Will to the upside down dimension, but somehow Will managed to slip away from it while Barb didn't. But I guess Will is smaller and it was easier for him to hide? The creature didn't seem to have good eyesight, or possibly it was even blind? And Barb was bleeding while Will wasn't, so it couldn't track him by smell.

Since there were so many homages to the movie, I'm wondering whether season 2 will be the Aliens to season 1's Alien? The creature couldn't really have taken over a whole planet all by itself, and it was breeding anyway, so we should get multiple monsters next season... Though I'd be more happy if it was more about the mysteries of the upside down dimension in general, I'm not sure if the monster was successfully enough done that it could carry another season.

Yeah, the creature would have to have some amazing backstory for me to be happy with them focusing an entire second season on it.

One more interesting thing that wasn't really discussed in the finale: the sheriff pretty much sold out Eleven to save Will, didn't he? He told the bad guys where El and the other kids were hiding, so what happened next was kinda his fault. At first I thought they'd reveal he was faking, that he told the bad guys some false location, but that didn't seem to be the case... Maybe that's why he's bringing food to El at the end (and possibly helping her hide from the men in black?), because he feels guilty about it?

feel like we were robbed of epic modine death. but maybe he didn't die...it was too quick. they should have had him talking up against a wall in the school and the monster comes out of the wall and chomps his head off. that's always a good way to do it.

Yeah, I didn't really understand that sudden shift in his character. I guess his primary concern was making Joyce's family whole again, all else be damned. I don't know if El is still alive, or if she is, that's she's even in "our" world, but him leaving the Eggo waffles out there makes me think he feels pretty guilty.

I've only seen like 2 and some change episodes of this but my early reaction: fuck this show. Have a lot of affection for the things it references, but (or because of that) this feels so pandering, witless, and soulless. Does it do anything interesting in the back half or does it continue emptily jerking off ppl who were kids in the 80s?

i'm an 80's kid who has shrugged and ignored over 5 million 80's revivals and i loved this!

Yeah, the same here. It doesn't really go above and beyond it's inspirations, but IMO it's a solid, intriguing mystery story with mostly good actors and some neat visuals, not just an empty pastiche. The 80s tropes are really just the cake dressing, I would've liked this story even with a present day setting. But if the first 2 episodes haven't convinced you, I can't imagine the rest of it will.

one break with 80s form-- the girl who has sex lives and the virgin dies

I was thinking that mustve been deliberate hey?

How do you know she was virgin? Just because she looked geeky?

I think it makes sense to pretend these kids are still in high school, it’s a relatively minor suspension of disbelief afaic and if they had graduated half of them would be scattered to the winds and unavailable to do anything cool (Hawkins does not strike me as a town where you stick around after HS if you can help it, and these young folks are nerds, they can help it)

Mike gets some much-needed redemption this season after becoming on of my least faves

Like he stll has work to do but at least he’s less of a butthead & giving more sensitivo again finally

At least only a few of the actors playing kids are over 30. Remember the 80s when it seemed like half the actors playing teenagers were in their late 20s? I guess the show being set in the 80s makes for a nice parallel

yeah that was half the shows i watched growing up i feel like lol
i’m not so bothered by it

It wouldn't seem so odd if we hadn't seen them when they were kids, I think. Anyway, after a couple of "As a fully adult man, I don't see why I can't drive the car" jokes at the start, we got over it pretty quickly. There are worse things.

Will seems beamed in from another show entirely where he plays a sensitive beatnik, or a member of The Monkees. it also seems pretty clear that some of these people are just not very good actors - that what worked in their adolescence as endearingly awkward now is just straight up bad

I think best actor here is the girl who plays Max; also her story with Holly is pretty interesting.

also new little chubby kid has all the best lines of the season

Yr thinking of sadie sink, who is indeed the best actor of the bunch. MTH is capable but is acting a *lot* in this rather than acting good imo

who is MTH

Maya thurman hawke

oh right. yes I concur with that assessment, her character has always been written as annoying to me.

imo Winona is a good actor who has been unjustly ignored by the writers ever since S1, she deserves better material

agree, she's doing something quite difficult in this show, really transformed herself into this mousy anxious person and i would love to see her get her time to shine

Yeah, she seems entirely left out of her son's coming-out narrative

Finished E02 it was also bad

The pre-credits openings of both E01 and E02 are so unbelievably gross and violent and off-putting. My kids (14 and 16) were both like, what in the hell, how is this so violent, this is horrific, does Netflix realise that the prime audience for this show is like 10 year olds??

I loved wine mom with the wine bottle, I thought they really did her character dirty with the ignoring her kid thing, same with golf dad, but I especially thought she deserved better after she found her cojones and went to town with the wine bottle.

No idea why Dustin didn't immediately put on the headphones and start zeroing in on signals as soon as he managed to pull up to the van with his bloody face. huh?? I thought this was like the most important thing ever and Dustin's the specialist. Get on it!!

There's probably a TV Trope for this but omg at Eleven and Hop trying to find Holly with breathless intensity and then, when Eleven notices Hop's injuries, just taking a good ol' long breather with sentimental music while Hop tells stories of yesteryear and El soulfully bandages him. Hey don't rush it. Take all the time you need guys. Also Hop can you stop being an asshole all the time thx

Indie boy and Lucas both continue to have no personalities at all apart from explaining the plot back to the other characters

Loving the military guys' double popped collars. Maybe somebody's going to go for a triple pop at some point

Will's dreamy where-am-I quality works well for his character I must admit but he still just seems like he's barely there as a performer, like he's thinking about when they'll restock granola bars at the craft services table. We kinda need to care about him but he doesn't make it easy

Can't believe this show has me saying the word "Vecna" out loud, feels sub-Doctor Who at best. In fact I feel like this entire overarching plot could have been wrapped up more satisfyingly in a Tennant-era two-parter

In general the stomping around in the upside down searching for people is just... boring

you are 100% otm and yet I still like this show idk. or at least I’m invested in seeing how this ends

anyway the best character on this is still Steve and I’m sad that they’ve got him doing nothing but mooning over Nancy (seriously who even wants this ship?) and yelling at Dustin all the time

The best scene in the entire series was Max grabbing the binoculars to ogle shirtless Steve

Steve is the best but they are turning the "asshole" knob way up because they need to generate some kind of interest and conflict between the characters I guess. Sad!

I can't remember if I read this somewhere (maybe this thread) but there's a thing this show does that Doctor Who also does (and possibly invented) where this crazy, supernatural, inexplicable thing is happening that literally no one on Earth has ever encountered before, and the main characters sit around and kind of... workshop it? And just by the power of dialogue alone they invent/discover the mechanism which powers the supernatural/impossible thing as well as what they need to do to overcome it. They just literally make shit up and everyone goes "yes you're right, that must be it" and well, now that's just how things work, it's canon, completely invented by the main characters

But in this case it's D&D lore that the characters are using.

This show also traps its characters in pre-set character traits and don't allow them to develop. See: Steve, who we thought had turned a corner. Or: Hop, who is Mr Must-Protect-El. That's now how main characters work. They start in one place and IMMEDIATELY start trying to stretch into other places, to correct their flaws, so escape their pasts. They begin as a dot on a globe and over time they stretch lines across many latitudes. They may not succeed but we need to see them try

Sorry I mean that's NOT how main characters work

Well, season 5 Steve is still pretty far from season 1 Steve. Also did Hopper even meet El in the first season? I know he started leaving out Eggos for her at the very end, but I don't remember them having scenes together.

it's a D&D campaign and those people aren't playing this campaign, whoever the DM is just says what they're doing so they're back to being stock tropes

(I really don't think this is what the show is doing but the more I think about it, the more it lines up, aggravatingly)

i do think it’s funny that out of all the kids on this show, the biggest star to come out of it has been Joseph Quinn

This show also traps its characters in pre-set character traits and don't allow them to develop.

I know It’s a running joke that they keep introducing characters instead of developing the main group, but it’s doubly frustrating that they don’t do anything with those new characters either. Like, what happened to Dustin’s girlfriend Suzie? Or Argyle the pizza guy last season?

Surely they'll show up for the final battle like all the Avengers in Wakanda

I honestly do hope the whole thing ends in a punchline of it all being a D&D game, I will laugh like a DRAIN.

Nah, this show is fine, but it feels like it just keeps escalating into "scooby gang big bad of the week" every season.

But what about the stakes!?!?!

Stakes are for vampires

I ACCUSE YOU of NOT CARING ENOUGH about VECNA

I see and acknowledge all the criticisms of this show, but I am at peace with accepting it on its own terms. I'm enjoying the ride.

this show is good and fun for the whole family imo, i have fewer criticisms because the nature of this type of genre is in its absurdity and nonsense. i don't even really think there's much bad acting whatsoever, even if there are a few standouts.

the whole family imo

Between this and stuff like "The Walking Dead," I'm sort of surprised (shocked?) at how, like, "The Thing" or Cronenberg body horror and Savini-level gore has become family fare.

Finally finished Chapter 4 last night, so popping in the thread. Ultimately I land with omar and pgwp, it's a lot of fun and the whole family enjoys it so I can overlook the mostly correct criticisms. The only thing I didn't really like is the reveal of the "sister" as if the Duffers really want to retcon those stupid Chicago episodes as being ultimately important and key

They literally said something like "We didn't want people to think those episodes were a mistake."

Fair enough, I really haven't paid any attention to their interviews!

No, I mean I agree they should have left it alone, but they didn't want to be criticized by nerds.

oh shit I forgot abt the Teenage Mutant Chicago Hipsters!

Yeah, for all of the threads that kind of faded away, I wish that had been left alone.

This season could definitely use some Argyle, though I do enjoy Delightful Derek!

I'm sort of surprised (shocked?) at how, like, "The Thing" or Cronenberg body horror and Savini-level gore has become family fare.

Yeah, when my brother said he was going to watch Aliens with my niece (14), I was a bit surprised, but as he said, she sees far worse than that on this show.

(Cue loads of people saying they watched things like that when they were nine or whatever, and maybe you did, but as family night viewing with your dad?)

how can intelligent humans achieve happiness in a hypermediated and hypersexualised environment which shows every sign of worsening?

I think it has to be looked at like a situation where our generation was sneaking away to watch these things at sleepovers and we enjoyed them, and were not traumatized by them, and now we’re passing on the experience. There’s a world of difference between this show and Aliens and The Thing vs the more extreme levels of horror films released today. My own kid has explicitly stated that he has zero problems with violence and gore in films and TV, though I did tell him he was basing that on a specific selection of what we allowed him to see, and really, it ultimately comes down to context. Also Aliens isn’t that bad really, it’s just very intense.

I wonder how these kids turned out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zrxkUxAcsI

Aliens feels way scarier than this show which has a sort of warm glow to it swiftly after horrible events?

Idk tho my main memory of being a kid watching violent movies was a sort of stupefied reaction rather than a horrified one.

But the tone of classic 18s films is so so different from Stranger Things.

I recall one season being particularly gross out. The one with the older pool boy and the mall fight? Season ... 3?

All the cracking bones in season 4 were pretty gross

defo loads of violent scenes but in general it just doesn't feel as weird or dark as 18s films from the past, and i don't mean that as a judgment of value. it was touched on above but also families are watching stranger things, whereas ime we often had to watch aliens or similar films kind of on the sly?

i sort of feel the violence is absorbed a bit given all the warmth in the show, whereas my memory of violent films growing up was access via piracy or a friend's brother or something. it felt as though there were barriers to seeing those films. and the films sort of mirrored that sense of transgression? like the big spectacle films of the 80s/90s are all kinda brutal and the idea of a family watching them together feels odd.

i know i also said i was surprised by the violence upthread, but i mean more that 'good characters' brutally murdering other people is weird in the context of a family/kids show.

What are 18s films?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_(British_Board_of_Film_Classification)