A thread for Stranger Things, the "Goonies meets X-Files" new Netflix series (with SPOILERS!)

There was already some discussion on it on the general Netflix thread, but IMO it deserves a thread of it's own. And it's nicer for people who've watched the first season to discuss it here without needing to avoid spoilers.

IMO the whole 80s nostalgia felt kinda gratuitous at first, but of course as an 80s kid I also enjoyed, and I really thought all those signifiers helped people ease into the whole Goonies/E.T. vibe the makers were clearly aiming for... The whole idea that something mysterious and weird is lurking right behind the boring everyday life in a small town, but it doesn't go fully into David Lynch style cruel & adult suburban horror, I liked how the tone was always kept safe enough that actual kids around the same age as the kid protagonists could enjoy it.

Also, of course the whole commie paranoia aspect worked pretty nicely with the 80s setting, it had enough distance to real-world issues of today that it didn't feel like they were exploiting real fears to produce family entertainment, which might have been the case if the series was set in the present day, applying present day paranoias (like the fear of terrorism).

And of course the setting allowed them to avoid some plot problems that might've risen if it was set in a time period where cell phones and the internet are commonly available.

As for follow-up seasons, Johnny Fever posted this in the other thread:

Just watched an interview with the producers who say if Netflix grants Stranger Things additional seasons that it's not going to be an anthology series like American Horror Story or Fargo; they're going to base it around the same characters in the same approximate time—which, if you've made it all the way to episode 8, seems hard to believe. But I'm on board.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), 17. heinäkuuta 2016 10:53 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IMO the follow-up is pretty easy to make with all the clues they set up in the final episode. Most importantly, it's heavily implied that Eleven didn't die but was transported to the upside down world. Her body isn't found, and Hopper is leaving Eggos (her favourite food) to the forest where we know the wall between the two world is pretty weak. And Hopper himself seems to be involved in some kind of X-Files work now, what with the men in black seemingly recruiting him at the end of the episode.

And then of course there's the baby monster Danny coughs out, which was the most obvious setup for the next season. And we still don't what happened to the upside down dimension... Since it has the same buildings as the "real" world, it seems it was once inhabited by humans, so what happened to them and why is it now infested with monsters? Seems like there's a lot of material still left to explore in a new season, I'm all for it.

Sorry, I meant to write Will, not Danny.

Am I the only one who felt casting Modine here was completely pointless? The three or four scenes where he got to actually do something could've been done by pretty much any second string TV actor, he never felt really threatening or anything.

Ryder was pretty good on the other hand, though her role was pretty one-note, it mostly went along the old "hysterical mother eventually finds the strength to face the monster" trope, a la Shelley Duvall in The Shining. Interested to see whether she gets to do more in a second season. The sheriff guy's "young John C. Reilly" impression and Eleven's intense innocence were the best bits of the show, acting-wise. Would totally watch a show revolving around those two only.

Frodo and the other three hobbits were all okay, but kinda interchangeable. The kid playing Sam was clearly the best, or at least he got the funniest snarky lines. Hope the second season elevates him beyond the comic relief role he mostly had in this one.

It's not like Modine is getting top billing jobs anymore, so his casting seemed appropriate. Also, they might be able to young him down a little bit if there are flashbacks in the future.

The only—ONLY—thing I found disappointing was the monster's design. Seems those featureless "venus fly trap" faces are so commonplace now. And while they do sufficiently creep me out, I guess I was expecting a better reveal.

I though all of the kids were amazing, even the teens. All the adults too. Nancy and Michael's dad was so exquisitely one-note and aloof.

Eleven's mother was the woman the chief and Winona went to go visit, yes? The story about the miscarriage seems like something that would have been used to cover up just literally stealing a baby.

Yeah, agree that the monster was disappointing and too "common horror creature" looking... They shouldn't have shown it properly at all, or it should've been truly faceless or something.

One interesting thing that was barely touched: it seemed like the Demogorgon wasn't really a "monster" per se, just an animal looking for something to eat? Even the creepy things done to Barb and others seemed to be just to provide food for its growing young. It felt like they could've gotten more out of the fact that Modine's character was the one real monster, but that wasn't really explored.

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Eleven's mother was the woman the chief and Winona went to go visit, yes? The story about the miscarriage seems like something that would have been used to cover up just literally stealing a baby.

Yeah, that seemed to be case. At first I feared they were gonna reveal Eleven was the sheriff's girl who didn't die after all, but thankfully they didn't go there, that would've been too appropriate.

I was waiting for them to reveal that Will was really the biological son of the sheriff

Also, I felt kinda bad for Barb and her family. So much of the show revolved around Will and how sad her disappearance made everyone, but at least he was saved! Barb's mom was shown in exactly one scene, and we never saw if her family even found out what really happened to her. In most cases I thought Stranger Things managed to avoid the worst cliches of the '80s movies it was emulating, but here it felt that because Barb was so clearly the "attractive teen girl protagonist's not-so-attractive best sidekick", her fate could just be hand-waved with barely any mention.

(xpost)

I was waiting for them to reveal that Will was really the biological son of the sheriff

Wasn't it said that the sheriff had been in town for only 4 years?

And that he used to work in some bigger city before that? Probably lost that job because of the trauma of her daughter's death.

details

I think it was implied that he's only been back in town for four years.

As for Barb, I thought it was a pity she just ended up as story fodder in the end, but maybe her parents still believe she ran away?

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall one of the deputies asking the sheriff whether it was like this in the big city, or something like that?

One thing that's been bugging me, and it's definitely not ruining the story for me in any way, is that if the gate to the Upside Down was only opened by Eleven recently, what was the creature feeding on before it could get topside?

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Can't imagine the sheriff not telling her parents that she died, even if he wouldn't/couldn't tell all the details.

xp Yeah, I think he grew up in Hawkins, moved away to Indianapolis, and then moved back after his daughter died and his marriage dissolved.

One thing that's been bugging me, and it's definitely not ruining the story for me in any way, is that if the gate to the Upside Down was only opened by Eleven recently, what was the creature feeding on before it could get topside?

Well like I said above, since the upside down world had all the same buildings as the real world, the implication seems to have been that it was once a normal parallel world that was inhabited by people, possibly parallel versions of the people in the real world. But then something had happened and the creature(s) had infested the world and eaten everyone there.

xpost They seemed to be setting something up, with the sheriff asking if Will was gay in this weird way. And the other cops saying he used to sleep with Winona.

And presumably the backstory of the upside down world will be explored more in the next season? Especially if Eleven is now stuck there.

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Yeah, I guess they could still reveal him to be Will's father. But that'd mean he was having an affair with her while he had a wife and daughter, not sure if they want to go there?

We're going to need a full character chronology to sort this out

Joyce and Hopper probably have some kind of ties back to high school, because he seemed to have some weird relationship with Lonnie (competition, disdain, something).

This was like the perfect blend of Spielberg and Stephen king

Was that a hatched egg hopper stopped to look at when they were in the upside-down?

I thought so. Nice Alien reference.

I wasn't sure, not after will choked out that baby slug

I imagine the snakey thing that Hopper pulled out of Will's throat hatched from the egg, then left a little creature thingy inside him to do...what? Who knows.

Eleven is the monster, guys

i.e. she created it

why was will still alive but barb was dead?

Will found hiding places

And was incubating the thing

i.e. she created it

Did she, though? Whenever she was in that black space with the wet floor, she could hone in on already living creatures (people to eavesdrop on), but there's no indication she could ever manifest something into being. She just brought it back out with her.

Xps yeah but the monster snatched him, right? So how did he get away?

And how did the monster get the scientist dude in the elevator at the beginning?

It came through a hole between the dimensions in the ceiling.

Yeah, it was a bit dodgy that the creature dragged both Barb and Will to the upside down dimension, but somehow Will managed to slip away from it while Barb didn't. But I guess Will is smaller and it was easier for him to hide? The creature didn't seem to have good eyesight, or possibly it was even blind? And Barb was bleeding while Will wasn't, so it couldn't track him by smell.

Since there were so many homages to the movie, I'm wondering whether season 2 will be the Aliens to season 1's Alien? The creature couldn't really have taken over a whole planet all by itself, and it was breeding anyway, so we should get multiple monsters next season... Though I'd be more happy if it was more about the mysteries of the upside down dimension in general, I'm not sure if the monster was successfully enough done that it could carry another season.

Yeah, the creature would have to have some amazing backstory for me to be happy with them focusing an entire second season on it.

One more interesting thing that wasn't really discussed in the finale: the sheriff pretty much sold out Eleven to save Will, didn't he? He told the bad guys where El and the other kids were hiding, so what happened next was kinda his fault. At first I thought they'd reveal he was faking, that he told the bad guys some false location, but that didn't seem to be the case... Maybe that's why he's bringing food to El at the end (and possibly helping her hide from the men in black?), because he feels guilty about it?

feel like we were robbed of epic modine death. but maybe he didn't die...it was too quick. they should have had him talking up against a wall in the school and the monster comes out of the wall and chomps his head off. that's always a good way to do it.

Yeah, I didn't really understand that sudden shift in his character. I guess his primary concern was making Joyce's family whole again, all else be damned. I don't know if El is still alive, or if she is, that's she's even in "our" world, but him leaving the Eggo waffles out there makes me think he feels pretty guilty.

I've only seen like 2 and some change episodes of this but my early reaction: fuck this show. Have a lot of affection for the things it references, but (or because of that) this feels so pandering, witless, and soulless. Does it do anything interesting in the back half or does it continue emptily jerking off ppl who were kids in the 80s?

i'm an 80's kid who has shrugged and ignored over 5 million 80's revivals and i loved this!

Yeah, the same here. It doesn't really go above and beyond it's inspirations, but IMO it's a solid, intriguing mystery story with mostly good actors and some neat visuals, not just an empty pastiche. The 80s tropes are really just the cake dressing, I would've liked this story even with a present day setting. But if the first 2 episodes haven't convinced you, I can't imagine the rest of it will.

one break with 80s form-- the girl who has sex lives and the virgin dies

I was thinking that mustve been deliberate hey?

How do you know she was virgin? Just because she looked geeky?

Watched this with the kids, who essentially grew up with the show. Setting aside the innate boilerplate nature of both the show and especially this finale, and overlooking the plot gibberish, questionable acting/writing, bad cast chemistry, many glaring plot holes (not least how, once the dust settled, they got away with murdering so many military people), etc, I thought this was ... fine. And tbf, it looked pretty expensive, even if the virtual sets always made it seem as if the cast wasn't sharing the same air.

Def. some Return of the King run-on ending vibes.

Jesus, the emotional aftermath scenes are absolutely excruciating.

Tho I liked the final d&d bit, that was quite sweet. I wish they just went to that after the battle.

Yeesh this is a struggle 20 mins in

Release the butthole cut (the one that didn’t come directly from a butthole)

I get they’re not served well by a real turd of a script but these children simply did not grow up to be any good at acting, particularly Gelman

The final was true to the recent seasons - some good sequences like the battle vs vecna / mindflayer and the final d&d scenes, lots of cringey dialogue and acting (there have to be some good outtakes with the actors laughing at the lines they had to deliver), serious case of storytelling bloat and self-seriousness, and plot holes galore (eg the whole military subplot).

All that being said, we enjoyed it even as we made fun of the show. We watched each season as a family so that part will be missed

There is sure to be a 5 hour directors cut coming in the future for the true fans - hard pass

When even my kid is talking about the show in terms of "camp," dunno if the Duffer Dorks even came closer to sticking the landing. Or maybe they literally just did the best they could. Online reactions seem to be pretty neutral (as in, shrug).

I actually thought it was nearly good up to the first ending, and maybe up to the second ending. Then I realised there was still 45 minutes to go.

Yeah, I liked the action scenes also, like I thought the first forty mins was pretty solid.

On Gelman, I found out he's a massive Zionist, can't remember how, and that along with Harbour's personal life kind of made it hard for me to root for two of our heroes.

Can't decide which was worse between the Justin speech or the rooftop Pabst Blue Ribbon scene.

ridiculous ending but i liked it, i think the acting from the kids is actually pretty good. i found the biggest emotional beat to be Holly reassuring her friends they were safe in the cave (obv they ultimately weren't but something about the sincerity of the delivery was vv moving idk.)

i guess the government was cool w/our heroes killing a bunch of soldiers, i can't handwring that much about it, it's refreshing that a huge show is just featuring beloved characters dispatching some military guys without consequence.

i assume we're going to get a prequel explaining the abyss rock in the briefcase, maybe Mike Hammer will be involved in tracking it down.

wasn't there a stage play that filled in some of the mythology?

i loved the D&D scenes as the capper of the finale, it was so nice to have them all together again! they have such a lovely chemistry imo

i think just the insane number of storylines made the finale feel a bit bogged down in all the loose ends it had to tie up but i think it still sorta managed to be enjoyable storywise for me anyway

i was mad at the purple rain needledrop bc that song makes me cry no matter what and i was NOT sad about Eleven but i still fkn cried anyway lol >:(

found most of the Eleven/Eight (Kali) / Hopper stuff kind of leaden - although Hop hallucinating & fucking up the plan was a good oh shit moment

hop & mike talking at the monument before mike goes to graduation was a nice moment

and i loved Dustins graduation speech <3

xpost yes thats where a lot of the Henry backstory comes from

and i loved Dustins graduation speech <3

To each their own :)

wasn't there a stage play that filled in some of the mythology?

― Josh in Chicago

this is even worse than being forced to watch some Marvel show on a streamer i don't have in order to fill in the info gap on movies. :(

yeah its really stupid.! like such a tiny percentage of ppl will even see it and they retrofitted the plot of the tv series to add story from the broadway thing to fit them together :/

Xxpost Any speech that ends with Maiden playing is cool with me.

^^ ding ding ding

I was very happy with the finale all the way up to the end of the action sequences. But my god the epilogue was nearly an hour long and made me forget that I was actually enjoying the show at one point.

When I saw how close they got to Henry in the first act of the finale I called it that the epilogue was going to take up hour two - there were only so many revelations and obstacles left to throw in front of everyone before we got to tying up loose ends and celebrating the fact that all our main characters survived.

My daughter called it that El’s death was going to be a fake-out.

And my partner called it that the big needle drop was going to be Prince.

We all enjoyed it, regardless of predictability and campness / thinness at various stops along the way. We did laugh a lot asking ourselves “why is Joyce there?!?” during the expedition through the UD to get to the mind flayer / Vecna’s mobile lair - turns out she had one job to do and it was fairly satisfying to see, cheesy flashbacks and all.

yeah i agree re Joyce’s moment - surprisingly satisfying!

I didn't even know Winona was there until like halfway through the episode.

I did enjoy most of the Derek bits, I have to say.

Didn't watch most of this season, but apparently his parents were last seen tied up in a barn?

About that Prince stuff

https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/stranger-things-5-episode-8-prince-needle-drop-songs

I don’t think El’s death was a fake out. Mike is telling himself a story to allow him to move on.

assuming El vanishing and reappearing at the gate would require her powers being used, the flashback Mike had at graduation to the military using those power-interfering devices upon their return from the upside down would indicate a sudden realization, and that he's got a very good theory going (if Kali could last that long after being shot)

i think we are meant to believe his account is correct. i did notice myself that they had the power device things and wonder about it.

also the fact it showed it actually happening didn't, to me, seem like it was playing the pictures for what mike was narrating, the opposite, he had a more loose sense of it but we were being shown exactly what happened.

Nah, that’s hopium. There’s no way Kali could have orchestrated that.

yeah that would actually have destroyed the show's meticulous logic

Anyway, the creators on the ambiguous ending:

“There are two roads that Eleven could take. There’s this darker, more pessimistic one or the optimistic, hopeful one. Mike is the optimist of the group and has chosen to believe in that story."

For our characters to move on and for the story of Hawkins and the Upside Down to come to a close, Eleven had to go away. We thought it would be beautiful if our characters continued to believe in that happier ending even if we didn’t give them a clear answer to whether that’s true or not. The fact that they’re believing in it, we just thought it was such a better way to end the story and a better way to represent the closure of this journey and their journey from children to adults."

yeah I dont think it’s true in-story, it’s part of Mike the storyteller giving himself and them some hope/positivity to draw strength from (and for Mike to work through his guilt etc) - it was a nice way to do it

feels like a cheat to leave the door open for a potential spin-off/sequel

I’m just happy Steve’s hair made it out

Netflix is making a live action spin-off (as well as an animated one) but supposedly it features none of the characters from Stranger Things.

Steve’s baseball coach getup was choice <3

For all the Prince chatter, the Iron Maiden needle drop was the big one, in my opinion. They NEVER license their stuff, and that moment got a big pop from all us Gen-Xers who were bullied outcasts in school. Because after all, that's ultimately what Stranger Things is all about: the lowest of the low in the teenage pecking order overcoming trauma and saving the normie world. Having Dustin echo Eddie Munson by giving the principal the finger as The Trooper plays was beautiful. Many of us dreamed of doing it 40 years ago but were too scared.

Dustin actor the only main one in the entire show that ever looked like he was actually having fun.

xpost otm! \m/

pretty much stuck the landing i guess (what else was going to happen w this level of bloat) but it def felt like the whole business lacked discipline wrt pace or what have you. basically all the complaints noted elsewhere.

Watching the hourlong paley center finale celebration with (some of) the cast plus the duffer bros and 1. the kids really do come across like BFFs, which is sweet 2. Jamie Campbell Bower really does sound like he smokes two packs a day.

Now watching a BTS by netflix on the climactic battle with vecna and the mind flayer and did they spend the money? it would appear they did

this was a chore.

Good take

Everything else I was going to say was expressed above.

I highly recommend the Season 5 making-of that's up on Netflix. It's fascinating. They put so much work and money and effort into the show, and the cast and crew seem to have genuine affection for each other and the story (lotta crying), but at the same time you can sort of witness the Duffers recognizing they've maybe bitten off more than they can chew. It's subtle, for sure, because no way this kind of BTS hagiography is going to be critical or totally transparent, but even though I came away giving the Duffers more credit than I had before, you can see the struggle to untangle all the threads they left dangling right up to the end, and they've got no one to blame but themselves. It's kind of a small wonder that the show ended on a relatively "fine" note and not as a disaster, given the probably impossible task they set up for themselves.

BRING BACK BARB

bring back billy

There are so many holes and there is so much hand waving in this show that I think it could safely bring back *anyone*.

They’re doing an animated show set between seasons 2 and 3. Safe to say Billy will show up.

they are no consistent rules, so no rules to be broken. it'll be like LCD Soundsystem, give it 5 years and Netflix will cut a desperate enough cheque to get them all back