So what's the opposite of 'Shiksa' anyway?

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So I have a THING for Jewish women. I have no idea why. It's been lifelong and nearly incontrovertible. I myself am Norwegian-Irish in ethnicity/American in nationality/Protestant in religious origin.

WHY (and if your WHAT isn't JEWISH WOMEN, then please state WHO) do you have a THING for certain features/ethnicities? And I know you do, SO DON'T TRY TO HIDE IT!! I know there's already a White Men/Asian Women thread, but seriously, how boring can you get? There's nothing Jewish about THEM!!

― ch. (synkro), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:27 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, jewish features are very pleasant. what does that word mean, someone told me once but i forget. i thought it was sishka or shiska, i'm mixed up. was it somewhat derogatory for secular

i think that many indian/near eastern skin tones are very beautiful - glowing light to medium browns

― ron (ron), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:45 (twenty-two years ago)

"Shiksa" is a somewhat derogatory term used by older Jewish women to denote a non-Jewish woman, or more often, a white, Christian woman.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:51 (twenty-two years ago)

it doesn't necessarily have to be derogatory - it's just a word for making a distinction between jewish and non-jewish women.

that said, the only context i've ever heard it used is when a jewish man marries out (or gets a non jewish girlfriend) - "he got himself a shiksa". for a long time i thought it applied exclusively to non-jewish women who are with jewish men.

meanwhile, hurrah for having a thing for jewish women! what about half jewish women who still look pretty damn jewish? (nudge wink etc.)

― minna (minna), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:04 (twenty-two years ago)

p.s. http://www.jdate.com/

― minna (minna), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

hurrah for having a thing for jewish women!

Seconded!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:12 (twenty-two years ago)

*meekly raises hand as Jewish-woman-fan*

*meekness due to marriage to shiksa and general discomfort with ethnic fetishes*

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

The ungendered word is goy (plural goyim) but it just means non Jewish. Shiksa, I think of as having connotations of sexual temptress but maybe that's just the contexts in which I have heard it used.

― Amarga, Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I've just googled an answer. Apparently the masculine form of shiksa is shegetz (A non-Jewish boy or young man) and it comes from the Hebrew word for blemish so it's definitely derogatory.

― Amarga, Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Fucking hell.

I was drunk when I posted this, so take it with a rim of salt.

It's still true though; I don't want to deny it. And I've heard never heard anyone use 'shiksa' derogatorily. Isn't it Philip Roth's favorite word? (Possibly not the best example.)

― ch. (synkro), Thursday, 24 October 2002 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

HURRAY for half-Jewish-yet-still-look-Jewish WOMEN!!!

― ch. (synkro), Thursday, 24 October 2002 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I was raised Jewish and though nothing would make my mother/grandmothers happier, I have scarcely met a single Jewish girl who I have been attracted to (I can think or one or two, maybe). Want to trade fetishes?

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 24 October 2002 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do people keep asking me if I'm Jewish?

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 24 October 2002 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

madchen do you look like this? (me looking supremely jewish. hehe even my friend qualifies because she has rabbi ringlets)

― minna (minna), Thursday, 24 October 2002 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

No ringlets - I used to look like this or this but more recently I've looked like the blonde on the left in the picture entitled Drink here. Last week I was asked for the umpteenth time if I am Jewish, this time by a young Jewish gentleman. I have no problem with this, I am just intrigued as to what makes me look Jewish.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 24 October 2002 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Clearly Madchen, according to some of the posts on the thread, your general hotness makes you look Jewish. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

She HAS A BOYFRIEND Ned. Down boy!

(or did last time I heard)

― Graham (graham), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes yes! More pictures please! Rowr! Grr! Pant Pant!

― ch. (synkro), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

er. so nice to see you all get in touch with your latent construction worker sides..

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

She HAS A BOYFRIEND Ned. Down boy!

DUH. Calm thyself, young man. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

a White Men/Asian Women thread, but seriously, how boring can you get? There's nothing Jewish about THEM!!

ahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHA

ahahahahaha

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 24 October 2002 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

The actual derivation of the Yiddish word Shiksa comes from the Hebrew word "sheqe". To say the word has the same denotation as "Blemish" in English is to greatly water down its meaning. The root meaning of "Sheqe" translates more like a combination of Unclean and Abomination. What is really being said is that a woman is an unclean godless whore.

It is a highly offensive racial slur. It is not the kind of word you throw around lightly. It is about as derogatory as a certain "n" word that black people are not too fond of.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 25 October 2002 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

geez, i must now berate my mother for telling me it was a neutral term. (i guess she had vested interests in doing so tho cos she is a shiksa, haha)

― minna (minna), Friday, 25 October 2002 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

mike, no disrespect, but how can a term which is used to designate somebody NOT of a certain race be a racial slur? i'm very aware of the word's history, and i realize it often has derogatory connotations for those using it, but i've yet to meet or even hear of ANYONE being offended by it.

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

...anyone who was called it be offended by it, i mean.

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

...BEING offended. grrr.

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

mike, on second thought i can't believe you compared "shiksa" to "n-r". that's fucking ridiculous.

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

And the reason for that is because it is very difficult to actually find out what the word Shiksa actually means, what the concept of it means in sections of the Jewish culture (Somebutnotall).

Do you have any idea how hard it was to find the words roots? I had to hit about 10 online western dictionaries to even get a Hebrew root. I looked through that many Hebrew dictionaries and could not get any etymological information. People do not find it offensive because they do not actually understand what is being implied by the word. What you are told a word means, and what it actually means in a culture that is kept veiled from you are two different things.

Jewish people will call you shegetz with a smile on their face, and they will tell you it just means non-Jew. But if you look further into the culture, and into the derivation of the word from Hebrew to Yiddish it is not such a nice thing. If you were to shift the latent meaning of the word from Jew to non-Jew and change it to White and Black in the US, it would be scandalous.

If I were to say to a black person that he was beneath me due to his race, that his people were unclean, their existence was due to sin, and that he is only able to defile the purity of white people as God's chosen race I would probably be looked down upon as an ignorant racist, if nothing else. Whether you realize it or not, that is the implication of the word. Perhaps those sentiments are only wrong when Europeans express them, but I think you know what I am getting at.

I have to work in the morning, so it is bedtime for me.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The flip side of that is that the Anglo-Jew power relationship is obviously different from the Anglo-Black power relationship in the US. Barring the power relationship, how is the sentiment different?

Secondly, if you are a non-Jew in Palestine (like say an Arab) what does shiksa's latent meaning imply when it is used towards Arab women? In that power situation, does that word not have similar implications of another word we civilized westerners are not supposed to utter?

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

*the meaning of the word lies as much in how it is received as how it is given.
*words mutate SIGNIFICANTLY from their roots.

― minna (minna), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Granted, I think I should at least qualify my statements by saying that *I* know what is being implied and *I* find it highly offensive.

I am going to bed now, for real. ;)

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe, but I think the word is diluted somewhat in that it doesn't refer to 'Christians' but non-Jews in general. Or maybe not, but I don't think you could take anyone under 70 using the word as seriously meaning offense to EVERYONE not Jewish. Ex.: my grandmother clearly doesn't hate non-Jewish people (that would be a full-time job), but she probably would use the word when referring to the girls I date out of disapproval. My parents would only use it as a joke, and if I ever say it is in complete irony. I suppose you could make a p.c. argument that it is still inappropriate to say, but no matter what it meant a few generations ago, that meaning has changed (as they often do...wasn't there a whole thread on that?).

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The flip side of that is that the Anglo-Jew power relationship is obviously different from the Anglo-Black power relationship in the US. Barring the power relationship, how is the sentiment different?

B-b-but you can't bar that power relationship! That's the whole point!

Mike this is some serious conspiratorial shit you're spinning out here. In order to know that a Jewish person is covertly insulting you by calling you a "Shiksa" you have to do research into Hebrew eymology??!! WTF??!! I'm not even sure where to begin here since you don't seem to even remotely grasp the dynamics of how racist terminology works. You sound so paranoid I'm seriously questioning your motivations for thinking this way.

I'm with Jordan. I can see how using the word in certain contexts is rude, but fucking hell. There is something seriously disturbing in your fanatical insistance on finding the word privately offensive.

Granted, I think I should at least qualify my statements by saying that *I* know what is being implied and *I* find it highly offensive.

Congratulations! You figured out the great Jewish conspiracy to degrade our women!

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

OK Mike: a black person has no control over the context in which the word "n-r" is used by others. That word, regardless of its etymology, carries horrible and degrading historical associations that are powerful and omnipresent enough to inspire blind and IMMEDIATE anger (witness Dan Perry's responses on the Vice thread for a convenient example, if one is even needed). By basing the offence you feel re: "Shiksa" on some arcane studies into its etymology, you're denying the larger cultural context which, as Jordan showed, and I think many other people will attest to, finds the word mostly ridiculous or impotent, and you're replacing it with your privately constructed alternate context which allows you to indict people for invoking meanings it's more reasonable to assume they didn't intend. It's as asinine as assuming that everyone who uses the word "idiot" still means it in a technical, medical way. This is why I'm questioning your motives here: why are you so eager to feel offended? Why the paranoia about the perceived latent menace in the voice of the otherwise friendly Jew? What the fuck is your problem?

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

would this be a bad time to suggest "jewish american princess" as an answer to the title of the thread?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 25 October 2002 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Lest we forget what this thread is supposed to be about - reveling in the magic and mystery of fine Jewish chiXor - can I chime in with

Winona "Ryder" Horowitz!!

Winona pic that needs some sort of login

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually Sterling that stereotype is pretty irrelevant to me. I live on the west coast, where JAPs are scarce. The kind of girl I'm primarily thinking of is the kind I dated in college - semi-frumpy underdone extremely intelligent girls who happen to be Jewish (and are therefore wildly desirable, do to the mysterious quirk in my subconscious).

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Lest we forget what this thread is supposed to be about - reveling in the magic and mystery of fine Jewish chiXor

http://home.earthlink.net/~castanier/music/sk/sk-metro-carrie.jpg

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 October 2002 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay Jody! Revel in the magic and mystery of fine Jewish lesbo oly chiXor!

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Joan "Lauren Bacall" Perske

http://www.prisma-online.de/image/84/mmnet_4724cd448c84.jpeg

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hotchie motchie.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 October 2002 04:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I was pretty ignorant about the existence of Jewish people (on the street, living near me, etc) until I got together with someone (jewish) who looks very similar to that photo of Winona Ryder (clothes and all). We will never be parted (in real life, she looks more like Natalie Portman than WR). Now I get turned on by anyone who reminds me of her. This includes a disproportionate amount of Jewish women.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 25 October 2002 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah but remember what burroughs' said " all a jewish boy wants to do is diddle a christian girl" now be it that he was mocking the stereotypes that that statement supported, the term shiksa just refers to the temptation of a young, beautiful, freee-spirited gentile woman to a young, virile jewish man. it is not meant to be a derogatory term but rather is a term that is used to remind a jewish boy to try to restrain his lusts and to stay true to his roots.

― barry berko (bbb), Friday, 25 October 2002 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

carrie moved to portland i think

― ron (ron), Friday, 25 October 2002 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's not forget Ms. Justine Frischmann:

http://www.espacio3.com/grasa/bpm/img/justine.jpg

http://www.groupiecentral.com/justine.jpg

― felicity (felicity), Friday, 25 October 2002 06:45 (twenty-two years ago)

haha ron this is big raging debate in the nw! i get around it by saying they are a LACEY band since that's where s-k road is.

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I went on dates with three different Israeli guys this past summer, but I don't think that's indicative of anything.

― Ally, Saturday, 26 October 2002 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

I AM a "Shiksa", and I totally have thing for Jewish boys! Yowza! GIMMIE!
I don't really think calling someone a "Shiksa" or Shagitz is the same thing as calling someone a "Nigger." I would also like to say that I think the meaning of these words really does depend on who is saying them and how they are said. Obviously if a black person calls another black person a "nigger" or rather "nigga" it means something different than if some old, white, guy calls a black person a "nigger." then there are other things to consider. Rappers like Eminem can use the word "nigga" and he is in fact a white person. But it is HOW he uses it that makes it ok for him to use that word so freely. Obviously the meaning of the word has changed in m any contexts since it was first put to use as a racial slur. Calling a non-Jewish girl a Shiska may have, at one time, meant something much worse then it does mean now, and may still mean that to older generations, but I have found that most of my Jewish friends use it is a jovial and non-offensive. For the I myself am a Unitarian Universalist, and find the Jewish faith to be rather interesting.
For fun you may want to check out some of these funny "Jewish-loving" songs. I think you will find them much more amusing then Adam Sandler's “Chanukah Song”

The Brews- by: NOFX www.nofx.com
What We Do on Christmas- by: Atom and his Package
If You’re the Owner of the Washington Redskins You’re a Cock- by: Atom and His Package. www.atomandhispackage.com

Both bands a fairly socially conscious so I think they are pretty reliable points of reference.
Peace,
MCLV

― MCLV, Monday, 10 November 2003 06:30 (twenty-one years ago)

These are the words on the NOFX song "The Brews"

Friday night we'll be drinkin' Manishevitz
Goin' out to terrorize Goyem
Stompin' shagitz, screwin' shicksas
As long as we're home by Saturday mornin
Cause hey, we're the Brews
Sportin' anti - swastika tattoos
Oi Oi we're the boys
Orthodox, hesidic, O. G. Ois

Orthopedic, Dr. Martins good for
Waffle making, kickin' through the shin
Reputation, gained through intimidation
Pacifism no longer tradition

Cause hey we're the Brews
Sportin' anti - swastika tattoos
Oi Oi we're the Brews
The fairfax ghetto boys skinhead Hebrews

We got the might, psycho mashuganas
We can't lose a fight, as we are the chosen ones
Chutspah, we battle then we feast
We celebrate, we'll separate our milkplates from our meat

We're the Brews
Sportin' anti - swastika tattoos
Oi Oi we're the boys
Orthodox, hesidic, O. G. Ois

[This is what some of the Jewish terms mean:]
[Manashevitz = Cheap wine Jews stereotypically drink; Goyem = Non - Jewish people; Shagitz = Preppies; Mashuganas = Yiddish for "Crazy"; Chutspah = Untranslatable Yiddish term meaning a cross between balls and rudeness; "Sporting anti - swastika tattoos" - It's against the Jewish law to get a tattoo; "As long as we're home by Saturday morning" - Jews gotta be home in time for Synagogue; Fairfax = A part of LA where the Orthodox Jews live; "Dai Dayenu" = Part of Jewish Hymn;]

These lyrics/notes came from www.musicsonglyrics.com

― MCLV, Monday, 10 November 2003 06:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"Shiksa" DER s-h-i-k-s-a
Did i spell this right?
nope.
sorry

― mclv, Monday, 10 November 2003 06:44 (twenty-one years ago)

That probably won't win you many Jewish boyfriends.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 10 November 2003 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

what do you mean? why not?

― mclv, Monday, 10 November 2003 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Jews hate NOFX.

Really, knock out a couple lines and it reads like a neo-Nazi flyer.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 10 November 2003 07:00 (twenty-one years ago)

No.... Fat Mike is Jewish. He is not a Nazi. and how can you say that all Jews hate NOFX? I know lots of who love them.

― MCLV, Monday, 10 November 2003 07:04 (twenty-one years ago)

also. The notes from that song are from the website www.musicsonglyrics.com not NOFX

― MCLV, Monday, 10 November 2003 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I was kidding, some of my best friends are NOFX fans.

I really don't care if Fat Mike is Jewish. I care about what he said. I get that it's supposed to be funny, but some of it skirts the line into being just offensive. You should proably wait til at least the third date before you break out that song.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 10 November 2003 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you for real telling me how to meet jewish dudes?
The whole topic of this thread was about jewish "fetishes" for lack of a better word and possibe offensive language and jewish and non-jewish people so... that's why i posted it....

― MCLV, Monday, 10 November 2003 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Jew Boys Rock. I knew one who played guitar and was adorably Dylanesque.

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Monday, 10 November 2003 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

that is a dumb thing to say sarah if perhaps well-intentioned

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Wouldn't be the first time.

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Monday, 10 November 2003 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I also have a thing for practictiners of voodoo.

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Monday, 10 November 2003 10:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry.

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Monday, 10 November 2003 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Love me because I'm me, damn it, not because I'm a typical Aquarian! (But, bloody hell, that description really is me down to the last detail! I could understand girls who exclusively date Aquarians meeting me and just going 'Yup, I'll take it, fine specimen'!)

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)

ok mr "i wrote 'space jews'"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually that was 'Mr I wrote Scottish Lips' talking. But they're both Aquarians.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

'Don't love me for my Scottish lips
But my truffles and my baclava'

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

'Blonka' is what we Aquarians call any non-Aquarian. It's not necessarily offensive, unless you're poorer than us.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

If you find yourself repeatedly talking out of Uranus then, chances are, you are Aquarian.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Typical Blonka prejudice, right out in the open. You see what we're up against?

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, one minute they're spouting stuff like that, the next they're feeling your ass.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Admit it, our aloof utopian spirituality makes you want to fling us down on the stable floor and fuck us stupid, doesn't it? You reductionist! You determinist! You... astrologist!

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf is Closet Factory Inc. Webserve?

― minna (minna), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

(you...mentalist!!)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

'What you do in your closet is our business'. So, somehow, is this thread, thanks to the magic of some blonka's Java.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus, what exactly did they put in your coffee today? Some kind of wacky powder or something?

Oh, but serious thanks for the little astrology linkage up above. I love what they have to say about Capricorns! Yay!

I have nothing to say in re: the original topic of discussion.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

is nobody else getting prompted for a password every time they open this thread?

― minna (minna), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the password is "bris"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

ok.... what's the user name?

― minna (minna), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(i edited synkro's post that needs the login)

― Alan (Alan), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

the password is "bris"

amateurist, I would like to thank you for giving me the first laugh of the day.

Yay for Alan editing the password-needing post!

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

amateurist, that was extremely funny.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

nine years pass...

The kind of girl I'm primarily thinking of is the kind I dated in college - semi-frumpy underdone extremely intelligent girls who happen to be Jewish

― ch. (synkro), Friday, 25 October 2002 04:39 (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Monday, 29 July 2013 01:40 (eleven years ago)

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