Should we use simple language when writing?

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Well?

I must confess that I started this thread after reading David H's Ladytron review. I'm not criticising the review however I know when I write I get very paranoid about using anything too complicated, for want of a better word. Perhaps this due to the year or so of my Journalism Degree which I've done. I guess every lecturer in the world sells the "short sentences/simple language where possible" approach.

I feel also that because I'm writing about dance music it is somehow not right to go too intellectual, I guess this is a personal feeling, that the more wordy something becomes the less like someone who goes clubbing I seem. Is this a silly attitude? I can't help but feel that my Viva Bugged Out review, for example, was a little bit intellectualised where a more straight up approach would be better.

Do you have paranoias like these when writing about something you love? Mine is almost like the "don't sell out" mentality, or something silly, but I guess I don't want to talk about something which is also my social life in the abstract, or even in a less than colloquial way.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I always think I do use quite simple language and feel sad when someone has a go at me for being wordy/intellectualised/up my arse. I think you should use whatever language most accurately expresses your reactions to what's being written about.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom, I don't want to make you feel bad, but there were about three words I didn't understand in your 'Argentina' piece, and I've got a reading age of twelve!

I strive for simplicity, so much so that I don't write anything.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Write with what comes naturally to your BRANE, I sez. My theory is if that you're trying to convey something, what feels most comfortable to you is what you should be saying.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I think you should use whatever language most accurately expresses your reactions to what's being written about.

Well yeah! But this is kind of the question though, I keep looking at that sentence and the mind boggles (not cos it's wrong) just because it's such a compact summary of something which seems like such a long process, or at least a process which you actively edit and change as you engage in it.

I guess I do write what comes naturally, but there are still decisions to be made and roads to go down, I mean I do plan pieces in my head before writing.

(as an aside, does everyone else really dislike all their stuff after having read it a few times?)

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:48 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm back so you can all stop talking about me!

haha in among the ancient books children's books my mum and dad have collected over the decades i found "robinson crusoe retold in words of one syllable"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I think you should write however you want to write! It's about finding your style and still having the substance!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:52 (twenty-three years ago)

(hello mark!)

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:52 (twenty-three years ago)

you know, it's funny, but i was just about to bring up mark s

― geeta (geeta), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark S is here = all is well with the world. Or so I hope! :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:53 (twenty-three years ago)

what jel said.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh I do, but I mean it's not a totally flowing process, writing, unless you're all genii or something, we do edit ourselves, we have to, every single sentence.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:54 (twenty-three years ago)

i was reading several of mark's old reviews/etc the other day and i realized that what i like most is that he writes the way music sounds!! it's weird but true!! examples coming soon (ps ronan i think yr writing style is great)

― geeta (geeta), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:55 (twenty-three years ago)

*I go for the most appropriate word.

*I go for the least cliched word.

*It's not my fault if someone doesn't understand my language. I don't know your vocabulary. I didn't sit there in class with you while you failed your English tests.

*Dictionaries are very easy to come by nowadays.

*People who complain about things being too complicated usually just don't want to put in the effort.

*I agree that sometimes difficult language can become convoluted, and I often get a sense that certain academic writers are desperately bluffing because they don't actually know what they're talking about. This is when a simpler, clearer writing style would be preferable.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 October 2002 18:57 (twenty-three years ago)

the problem isn't so much complicated language but its abt expressing your ideas clearly. clear thinking is the most improtant thing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:03 (twenty-three years ago)

uh-uh.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

"a clear idea is a little idea"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Should we use simple language when writing?

Assuredly! Undoubtedly!! Unquestionably!!! What I really mean is, yes.

― ragnfild (ragnfild), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

People who complain about things being too complicated usually just don't want to put in the effort.

Well, yes, but why should it be an effort if it doesn't have to be?

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

i think its important to adapt your style to the 'expected' reading / comprehension level of your audience. of course your own vocabularly 'level' is going to come into it but there is little point getting too complex if no one is going to understand what you are saying.
it is isnt 'selling out' to modify style, it is intelligent journalism.
just as it takes someone with intelligence to adapt to varying circumstances and react accordingly. i am fascinated by people who insist on sticking valiantly to their own 'thing' when it is obvious they are surrounded by people who havent a clue what they are on about, and the individual in question wants to be understood but cant adjust their manner of speech or writing to succeed. ie: unable to 'dumb down' when necessary. this isnt condescension either, it makes good sense.
i can understand plenty of complex writings and speeches but more often than not i find myself thinking how much easier it would have been to just express more simply.
over the years i have become more and more straightforward and less inclined to over-intellectualise, 'cut through the crap' so to speak.

― donna (donna), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, yes, but why should it be an effort if it doesn't have to be?

RickyT encapsulates in one sentence why I decided not to study literature in college.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Depends on whether "effort" = "looking up a word in the dictionary" / "reading a bit farther past the foggy part to get a sense of what's going on via context" VS "effort" = "filling in gaps in the writer's logic that shouldn't've been left empty". It's more complicated than that, but I imagine knowing what you're going to say makes saying it easy, and as long as you express yourself clearly (regardless of polysyllablism) (sic), you shouldn't worry about what you're saying. The most confusing things I've read / written are things where the writer / I is / am totally vague re: what the hell is going on.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:28 (twenty-three years ago)

''"a clear idea is a little idea"''

not always.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:30 (twenty-three years ago)

In other words, I fall somewhere in between Jody Beth's hard line and Donna's acquiescense.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Fremme neppa Venette!

― Paul (scifisoul), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:32 (twenty-three years ago)

not acquiescence david, its taking into account the reality that if you want to be understood and read by the people you target, you have to write accordingly.

― donna (donna), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I found the article to be virtually unreadable. Yet another writer confusing convolution with depth.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, yes, but why should it be an effort if it doesn't have to be?

Because I (the writer) don't know whether or not it's going to be an effort for you (the reader).

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:48 (twenty-three years ago)

jack redelfs to thread!!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 28 October 2002 19:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Because I (the writer) don't know whether or not it's going to be an effort for you (the reader).

However, if someone writes for a living they know they have to write to their audience -- if they hope to bring in a regular income, that is.

But if you're simply posting to a message board on the net, then I agree that you do your best to write clearly in organized fashion while making greater allowance for personal style. Some posters never capitalize, some are given to spelling or grammatical errors, some are inclined to a nastardly bent, making up new words which aren't to be found in any dictionary. *shrug* It's all just part of our online face.

As for me, whether it's a skimpy post, a lengthy article, or a 600 page novel, if I don't like it, I just don't finish...

― ragnfild (ragnfild), Monday, 28 October 2002 20:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, Donna, I was trying to think of another word w/out the negative connotations that "acquiese" has, but damn if my brain done come up blank.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 October 2002 20:40 (twenty-three years ago)

JBR, do you really write without even having the vaguest idea of who your audience might be?

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 October 2002 20:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Occasionally monosyllabic locutions facilitate a surpassing manifest comprehensibility, yes.

― ch. (synkro), Monday, 28 October 2002 21:01 (twenty-three years ago)

word not really needed in that post = "a"!!!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 28 October 2002 21:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I guess what I'm saying is I feel a constant need to "keep it real" as it were, and I guess by that I also mean if I feel say, one of my friends who likes the same thing isn't going to get what I say then there's no point. I guess, my friends, clubbers, being the potential audience.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 October 2002 21:12 (twenty-three years ago)

yes

― felicity (felicity), Monday, 28 October 2002 21:25 (twenty-three years ago)

JBR, do you really write without even having the vaguest idea of who your audience might be?

No. I write for my friends, and my friends already know how I think and listen and process things, and the language I use to express myself. And I know how they think, etc. The truth is that I don't like people very much and I don't give a shit whether anything I say influences them in one way or the other.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 October 2002 21:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I think if you are writing professionally it's part of the job to bear the audience in mind. If you're writing for ILE or some such you can do what you want. As for levels of complexity, assuming you don't need to keep it simple for an audience, you need to use whatever language is most apt for what you are trying to say. Sometimes the subject matter or your thoughts on the subject demand big, complicated words. Not if you're me, obv, because I don't have big, complicated ideas, but some do.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 28 October 2002 22:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the greater the accessibility of a increasingly complex concept, the more nobler the endeavor.

(as an aside, does everyone else really dislike all their stuff after having read it a few times?)

Constantly. As it turns out, I've never liked anything I've written.

― Leee (Leee), Monday, 28 October 2002 23:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I've been making an increasing effort to simplify my academic writing. I love interesting words and there's usually nothing wrong with using them, I'm just trying to use less words in general. If I look back on a paper in sixth months, I'm always happier with the simpler ones...if it was wordy/convoluted when I wrote it, then even I don't know what I was on about sometimes (or just think "god you're a pretentious bastard").

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 04:35 (twenty-three years ago)

saying that people should write in the way they're comfortable doesn't seem to be much help to bad writers, who may think they're doing just fine. this idea might be saved by saying that writing as clearly and as simply as the ideas will allow IS more comfortable, but saying that to a person who has trouble writing clearly or simply doesn't seem to be in the spirit of 'write however you're comfortable'.

lately I am inclined to think that really understanding well the ideas you're trying to express involves understanding how easy or difficult it might be for a range of others to understand the ideas, and taking that difficulty into account in your writing. this would seem to speak against writing for a limited audience of people who are already likely to understand you, simply for the reason that writing with more consideration of others will improve your writing from your own perspective.

― Josh (Josh), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 05:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd think consciously taking that difficulty into account, though, would inevitably be frustrating if regularly applied. This might also be a question of medium -- if you're writing for the web, say, and therefore for that there potential world-wide audience, especially how many people might not speak your own language or only know it to an extent, how and where is the line drawn?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 05:08 (twenty-three years ago)

yes, writing well is frustrating sometimes. and I would worry about writing with this consideration in mind for the audiences we typically write to before trying to make some kind of universal principle out of it.

― Josh (Josh), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 05:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Has anyone got any basic writing principles for people who have never studied any of the arts or journalism. In terms of syntax and paragraphs and joining words and well stuff you people know all about. Please e mail me anything or good web page links, whatever, as I want to learn to write properly!Thanks.

― never been taught, Tuesday, 29 October 2002 05:57 (twenty-three years ago)

here

Read the first editorial review.

― felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 06:12 (twenty-three years ago)

& get a copy of fowler's english usage

― unknown or illegal user (doorag), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 06:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Thankyou both

― Kiwi, Tuesday, 29 October 2002 06:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Fowler! Egads.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 06:39 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah for real! why what're you sayin'?

― unknown or illegal user (doorag), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 06:44 (twenty-three years ago)

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