Are cats always "she" and dogs "he"?

I've run into an argument with some non-native English speakers, and I'd appreciate your help... Apparently some folks here in Finland have learned from their English teachers that English speakers always refer to dogs as "he" and cats as "she" (unless they use "it", of course). This "rule" sounds bizarre to me, since I've never come across it before! I can understand that if someone doesn't know the gender of an animal, they might gender them according to the stereotype that cats are feminine and dogs are masculine. But if they do know the gender, surely they use the correct pronoun, not "she" for male cats, nor "he" for female dogs?

no

But if they do know the gender, surely they use the correct pronoun

they sure do

it's a weird default some people use but it's colloquial and not a rule, and adheres to stereotypes of which pets are masculine (men have hunting dogs) and feminine (crazy cat lady)

we use the correct pronouns as soon as we learn them

The cheat, upon meeting a brand new animal, is to say "what's YOUR name?" as if you are addressing the pet, and then guessing the gender based on the owner's response.

Obviously this doesn't work if the animal is a stray so you just guess based on other factors, like size, voice, etc. and it doesn't matter much in those cases anyway, the animal doesn't care.

Yeah, this whole "rule" sounded so weird to me, but apparently that's what some people here have learned from their teachers. And here I thought the quality of English classes in Finland is pretty high...

Also, some are claiming that this rule only applies to Britain but not the States.

Cats are definitely gendered female. The prefix "fe," shared by both "feline" and "female", is adapted from old French and lit. means 'milk,' hearkening back to Vulgar Latin. Moreover, a surprisingly high percentage of US cats are female as a means for controlling population, which prevent the necessity of another wild cat cull like the ones that happened a couple of decades back.

Dogs are a different beast. They are default gender-neutral, but before assigning them sex you should just bend over and inspect the undercarriage to check. It's not weird unless you try to be furtive doing it, in which case you look like a creeper. Better to just brazenly peer at the equipment, then refer to the dog using the preferred pronoun, or mistakenly deploying a "good boy."

Are you sure your friends aren't getting mixed up with French gender pronouns, because that would make more sense?

Its common to talk of male cats, the ones making all the ruckus in their fights in the neighbor's yard at 2:00 am (like last night), as tomcats, or toms. Gendering isn't hard, its colon : or semi-colon ; at the rear.

At the dog park, when speaking to other dog owners, I find myself peeking at where the dog's genitals might be, just to avoid using the wrong pronoun. Pet owners are too attached to talk about them as "it", and always immediately correct a searching "...he, uh, she..."

pet owners are weird

come on -- i'm weird, but not because i have enjoyed the company of dogs in my home!
i don't care if i misgender someone else's dog, nor have i ever cared if someone misgenders my dogs

In New England, misgendering - cats especially - can be a historically grave insult. There are a set of blue laws referred to as the Maine Coon statutes that come from the sale of large female cats as male cats, transported across state lines that went all the way to the Supreme Court.

I have not spent a large amount of time around pets as an adult since my wife is very allergic to fur but I have never seen anyone get offended because someone misgendered their pet, nor have I ever seen anyone do an undercarriage inspection in order to determine the sex of a pet, particularly if the pet's owner is around.

Tuomas: yes, it's rude to presume a pet's gender. the correct etiquette in North America is to personally inspect its genitals.

well my fish are bisexual

my dog is transgender

and my cat is just a drag queen

use correct pronoun tyvm

or "it" if you must but i will make sure you look at their genitals

cautiously going to endorse remy here because I think I know what is going on

FYI in French both cat (chat) and dog (chien) are masculine. As is félin, incidentally. These simultaneously refer to males of the subspecies and, in a neutral sense, to the subspecies as such. All three can be rendered in the feminine: chatte (partially taboo as it also has a vulgar meaning, i.e. 'pussy'), chienne (also a gendered insult, i.e. 'whore', so not quite the same as 'bitch' in English) and féline, which is somewhat poetic.

Btw, I wonder where you got the etymological connection between feline and female, remy.

'Feline' ultimately hearkens back to the Latin word for cat, feles, whose etymology is unknown, whereas 'female' is derived from femella, a diminutive of femina, i.e. a woman. As for the French lait (milk), it comes from lac, which is a rather different root from 'fe'.

One last thing: life itself can also be a chienne, so in that specific sense it is similar to its English equivalent.

Oh Tuomaspaws

Here’s a hint: Literally everything I have written in this thread is a straight lie.

ah man, I was hoping we’d roll with it a while

I thought you were aiming for a mix of truth and lies, which is generally more effective.

letters are girls and numbers are boys

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FemaleFelineMaleMutt

In western culture, the default assumption seems to be that cats are female and dogs are male, unless proven otherwise.

i write content for veterinarians from time to time as part of my job and they usually request we refer to pets as "it." always found this a little cold and off-putting but i dunno if there's a better alternative.

"unless proven otherwise" is a pretty weak substitute for "citation needed"

OK I'm kinda boggled that nobody else has learned the "what's your name?" trick with accompanied pets

as everyone's said, you use the pronoun as soon as you figure it out. or just ask, or observe.

however, there are at least a few people who stubbornly call all dogs He and all cats She. my dad does this, even though my dog is female and my cat is male. no matter how many times i correct him, he keeps doing it. it's fucking terrible

just ask “what’s their name” you don’t have to talk to dogs

you should probably ask children their names first if they seem at all verbal though, rude to talk about people in the second person when they’re present and understand you

you can always ask "who's a good boy?" or "who's a good girl" and try to get a read from their reaction

that won't work 100% of the time though, of course, because some dogs are pathological liars

cats always respond with “I don’t know you”

It’s not that dogs are patho liars

They just dont want to get into a barking contest over what is morally good or bad so they treat it as a rhetorical question

however, there are at least a few people who stubbornly call all dogs He and all cats She.

I've never encountered this in my life tbh.

so far, every single person i've met who does this is an older man from the midwest u.s.

admittedly a small sample

Maybe it's a holdover from Britain in the 17th century, you know how that happens sometimes in the US.

Personally, if I know the animal's sex, I use the appropriate gender. Lacking such knowledge, I am hit or miss, all over the map, with no obvious preference among the three English genders.

El is totally otm here. It's the name...

I would just call them The Dog or The Cat.

I don't assume until I know. I keep it generic if at all possible - what a nice dog, what's your cat's name, your dog is humping my leg, your cat is biting my neck.

If pressed for a pronoun I suspect I really would say "he or she," just as I would for a person. I don't say "it" for any mammal, any more than I would for a human child.

That said, I doubt I would use "he or she" for a cockroach or salamander or earthworm or goldfish. Call me a bigot but those can be "it."

In half of the cases you just used as examples I believe “both” is accurate at times

He and she (left and right), in fantastic matching outfits:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3263/3115283603_48bd03ab8c_z.jpg
Ambystoma opacum - sexual dimorphism

There is no such thing as cats in English culture merely misgendered dogs

just ask “what’s their name” you don’t have to talk to dogs

― mh, Monday, November 13, 2017 7:59 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow rude

"hi what's YOUR name?"

"that's banjo"

"aw he's a good widdle b---"

"it's a SHE, dipshit"

Whenever I meet a new dog, I always say ‘hello, baba!’ to it and then ask the owner its name.

"Is that yours?"

I think this is a regional thing, in the north yes cats are always she and dogs he, but in the south, dogs are sometimes she. Also west of the mississippi it's different, dogs are he but so are cats, except in Texas, where cats are he also.

There's a 1952 version

In another thread like

all unfamiliar dogs to be addressed as <DOGMAN> (as in the surname that all dogs share) and cats as 'Madame Fur'

You're onto something there, ogmor.

I have always been annoyed at the tendency of veterinarians to assume our pets have our last name. I bring Cordelia (say) into the vet, next thing I know I'm getting mail addressed to Cordelia Puffin. She might have a totally different last name (in fact she does, it's Astrocat), but they don't even bother to ask.

Of course to the animals in question, they're all slave names. They have their own secret names among themselves.

They call each other 'dog', particularly on the phone.

I am mad that I was slow to pick up on what remy was doing, although once I did I shut up and hoped I hadn't ruined anything

i reacted emotionally to being called a weirdo and then stopped caring about this thread
just another day, same as all the rest

I was really tired and referred to a human baby as "it" once

what if instead of genitalia, you find an ant colony in the undercarriage

Babies shouldn’t have genders xp

A baby is an it sometimes I think, in just the essence of babyness kind of thing. Not always.

I just read a history of WWII. During the siege of one of the Russian cities things got so bad they had to eat the cats. And then, as the bodies (literally) piled up, the rats came in droves. So at the end of the siege they had to ship in train cars full of cats to repopulate the cities once again and eat all the rats.

Our cat at the vet, btw, Oscar, they totally gave him our last name, but really, how else are they supposed to tell all the pets apart? Even though a pet doesn't care what you call them, I bet the bench for pet names doesn't go that deep.

iirc in finland you test an animal's gender like you test a 9 volt battery's charge

Children and babies have historically often been "it," especially in BrE.

"A child laughing in its sleep."

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VnzkHaEwjLs/maxresdefault.jpg

once you are good friends with a cat you can default to "hey, asshole!" or whatever friendly insult comes to mind