Barfly Best Practices

A companion thread to Bartender Best Practices

what happened to bar etiquette

before you leave you gotta stick $20 in the Doggie Diamonds machine. I swear it's gonna hit any day now.

When unsure if a bar is open, approach from the opposite side of the street because

be sure to lock the bathroom door before snorting that cocaine

and if you do get caught, offer to share

tip your fucking bartender

with w33d

if they smoke it, then definitely

should be a list thread?

corollary to the above: don't smoke weed in the bar, not even in the smoking area

A quick shake of salt on your cocktail napkin keeps it from sticking to the bottom of your glass.

You can use a straw to try someone else's drink without germ concerns (insert a straw, plug the top end with your thumb, lift it out and sample).

Ear wax and nose oil are good for dispelling bubbles (rub your nose or put your finger in your ear, then put the finger into excessively heady beer).

The old "dollar per drink" tip makes sense only for beer and rail drinks. 20% of pretax total is best for tabs that include more attentive service (hand muddling, etc.).

Coffee-based drinks consumed in the evening will usually be made with really terrible coffee.

If you don't want people to talk to you, work on a crossword puzzle or prop up a book on a condiment caddy. Protip: choose a very boring book or one with a nondescript cover, so no one tries to initiate conversation with "whatcha readin'?"

If there is a TV tuned to Fox (even if it is muted) ask for it to be changed.

if it doesn't fold, it isn't a tip (exceptions for regulars may apply)

Depends on the amount

this thread and the weather today make me want to go spend a few hours at my local tbh

haha otm

See you there dude

Sometimes a regular sitting near the taps gets to have a partial beer left by a dead keg (and yes it is still a free drink that you should consider when tipping).

General tipping guidance (may not apply for non-USians) is that you shouldn't try to punish a bad service experience with an insultingly small tip because you end up screwing over people who were not responsible.

If you had three glasses of the same wine, you could have bought the bottle.

Note: UK-style "and for yourself?" tipping does not work well in USian bars, as the bar staff is usually not drinking during working hours. I have seen people try to do it and it fell flat.

cocktail napkins are so beyond horrible, there is this wonderful invention called the coaster...

Who knows what life is or where it’s going
So cheers

Always pay with cash. This eliminates the risks of:

- Forgetting your credit card
- the bartender taking advantage of your inebriation to overcharge you

Also bar staff (and other service workers) have better visibility into what happens to cash than to credit/debit charges.

Oh and speaking of inebriation: if a bartender offers to call a cab for you, DON'T ARGUE. If they think you need a cab then you need a frickin cab.

if taking a car to the bar, park or get dropped off a block away and arrive by foot. No one likes a VIP.

When an interested party asks how old you think they are, subtract 5 from your gut feeling

If you are the only person left in the bar very close to closing time...please leave.

If there is more than one bartender
Choose one, preferably the older,
And when it comes time for subsequent rounds,
Always order from the same one,
To increase the chance of buy backs

May have changed opinions on paying with a card vs cash. I only got charged for 3 while consuming 5 today. Maybe the Card allows the bartender to keep the discounts on the DL, thereby rewarding good tipping regulars without being subject to the inquisitiveness of nosy fuckers at the bar who keep track of this shit

one thing i genuinely never know is whether bartenders prefer to be tipped in cash or just adding it on the card

Re: paying with cash vs a card -
In the past few weeks I’ve been undercharged and overcharged using a card. I think it’s probably better just using cash

Testing the new bartender on buyback etiquette

I hate having to use a card at the bar. plus if they want to comp you a drink let them do so with a wink and a hand motion, not in a way that makes you think it could have been a "user error"

If it's a quiet afternoon, testing the new bartender on their Old Fashioneds.

Stick with one bartender, especially if she pours them well

If you’re aware of a shift change later in the day, don’t leave the change of a large bill on the bar to pay for your nexts — instead, tip for each as they’re poured. This makes it easier for the early shifter to sign off without them having to remind you and thus ask for their tip explicitly

very otm

very incomprehensible

Otm, I try to be aware of this when I can.

Sic: let's say you like to start drinking at 5:30, and you intend to stay for a while and have several drinks. But the bartender who gives you your first two drinks works only till 6. Then a different bartender comes in.

At this point, all the assembled barflies have a choice:

1. Close out their tab, so as to be sure their tips reach Bartender One. Then open a new tab with Bartender Two, so as to make sure that she or he gets tipped appropriately too.

2. Allow the tab to remain open and be transferred to Bartender Two. This runs the risk of stiffing Bartender One out of the tips on the first couple drinks.

Maybe the bar has a system for equitably distributing tips in this situation, maybe they don't; maybe they just figure it will work out karmically. You don't know, and it would be awkward to ask. So clearly Option 1 is better barfly etiquette.

CAVEAT: this assumes you are running a tab. If I understand Calstars correctly, calstars's seems to be talking more about a pay-as-you-go model. Which is also a tip-as-you-go model, unless you're a dick.

That model can be elegant, especially if you're using cash and rounding up generously to nice tidy whole-dollar amounts. (Speaking in USian terms.)

Two twenties and two tens says sic is not a barfly

I thought sic was just referring to the business of tipping itself

Is sic a British? I forget.

sic is an Australian on long-term loan to Seattle

let's say you like to start drinking at 5:30, and you intend to stay for a while and have several drinks. But the bartender who gives you your first two drinks works only till 6. Then a different bartender comes in.

At this point, all the assembled barflies have a choice:

1. Close out their tab, so as to be sure their tips reach Bartender One. Then open a new tab with Bartender Two, so as to make sure that she or he gets tipped appropriately too.

2. Allow the tab to remain open and be transferred to Bartender Two. This runs the risk of stiffing Bartender One out of the tips on the first couple drinks.

Maybe the bar has a system for equitably distributing tips in this situation, maybe they don't; maybe they just figure it will work out karmically. You don't know, and it would be awkward to ask. So clearly Option 1 is better barfly etiquette.

none of this comes close to explaining what "don’t leave the change of a large bill on the bar to pay for your nexts" means

also

CAVEAT: this assumes you are running a tab. If I understand Calstars correctly, calstars's seems to be talking more about a pay-as-you-go model. Which is also a tip-as-you-go model, unless you're a dick.

I assumed the same re calstars' model so you are additionally saying that your entire explanation is not intended to explain it?

(plus yeah re tombot

If you’re aware of a shift change later in the day, don’t leave the change of a large bill on the bar to pay for your nexts — instead, tip for each as they’re poured. This makes it easier for the early shifter to sign off without them having to remind you and thus ask for their tip explicitly

Otm, I try to be aware of this when I can.

Sic: let's say you like to start drinking at 5:30, and you intend to stay for a while and have several drinks. But the bartender who gives you your first two drinks works only till 6. Then a different bartender comes in.

At this point, all the assembled barflies have a choice:

1. Close out their tab, so as to be sure their tips reach Bartender One. Then open a new tab with Bartender Two, so as to make sure that she or he gets tipped appropriately too.

2. Allow the tab to remain open and be transferred to Bartender Two. This runs the risk of stiffing Bartender One out of the tips on the first couple drinks.

Maybe the bar has a system for equitably distributing tips in this situation, maybe they don't; maybe they just figure it will work out karmically. You don't know, and it would be awkward to ask. So clearly Option 1 is better barfly etiquette.

CAVEAT: this assumes you are running a tab. If I understand Calstars correctly, calstars's seems to be talking more about a pay-as-you-go model. Which is also a tip-as-you-go model, unless you're a dick.

That model can be elegant, especially if you're using cash and rounding up generously to nice tidy whole-dollar amounts.

a slightly more elegant model is: pay a listed price for things.)

If carrying a cash balance on the bar itself, add new bills by placing them perpendicular, on the side of the bartender, to your stack of smaller bills.

Confirm your tip with the bartender. Never leave cash unattended.

I don’t worry about shift changes and tipping. I drink at the same bar all the time. They all know I got them overall.

Smoove Jeff
Respeck

can I get a buyback or what

Cal yr top tier single malt

Make a double, neat chief

When you’re on your 7th and wondering when the right time is to leave, do so whenever one of the following events occur:
- you belch loudly, causing a moment of silence to be observed around you
- navigation and walking control becomes difficult, possibly resulting in collisions with others
- you spill your drink on your running cash tab

yes, thank you!

bouncing into a thread where someone's posted something personal, especially if it's something they're bothered by, and then replying with flippant or insulting reads to me as:
1. being uncomfortable with someone else sharing something personal
2. not dealing with any of your own shit and you feel uncomfortable when other people are trying to do so by sharing their struggles

I think over the course of all of these posts, I've chuckled at one, maybe two, and felt kind of bad about it. I think it's human to hear someone's complaints and think "wow, that little thing?" but consistently doing that, and verbally/written is just being an asshole

I think that flippant/insulting response is one that quite a few ilxors are guilty of tbh. Generally those are confined to responses to other posters they dislike/have a grievance with, and said flippant/insulting posters are more generous and supportive of those they like, or at least don’t loathe. I know, considering my long history here, that I am not innocent of this.

I personally don’t have a problem with cstars, but I defer to those who more regularly interact with him.

i think it's fine to delete the posts from last night . . . as long as he is permanently banned

LL is right; he said that shit, and if we erase that (for his sake?) he should have no further posting privileges

I think if he gets help with his problems he should be able to come back. … Like to me it seems that the offensive behavior is related to that. But again, if he’s posted some seriously heinous shit I don’t know about… idk. Maybe he gets permabanned, takes time off, gets his shit sorted, comes back under a different user name and is chill … like a few previous posters in ilx history.

he adds nothing, and never has

'if he gets help with his problems' and wants to come back let him use a vpn to once again grace us with his assholery

"I think if he gets help with his problems he should be able to come back"

Like a 'here is what I did on my ilx ban' lol.

That post my last more than a sentence, which is possibly the proof we need that a complete transformation has taken place!

very few totally spotless ilxors across the range of possible problematic or detrimental board behaviours (not all of which are necessarily in the area of being mean or nasty)

im in least spotless bracket in terms of what's left and have not copped even a threadban or yellow card in a decade (even when i richly deserved it)

so theres something to what sarahell says here but it boils down to two things afaict

- "its a popularity contest and that's wrong"

what part of being unpopular with the vast majority of an online community merits a defence, exactly?

and, probably (definitely) feeding into the above:

- what others have said about there being practically no counterweight in terms of contribution or comment or any discernible persona offered back to the community* other than what seems a quite deliberate shittiness or expressions of views that run contra to what most of us might see as consistently shared values**

* sometimes being snarky and mean and rotten gains you this and sorry but you dont have to like that but yknow it is what it is

** if not the values being shared as such then the sincerity of them being held and discussed in whatever tone and to whatever level of ferocity throughout the years

all that said, i dont know about a permaban here, i just think also i wouldnt be fussed about a permaban whereas with just about any other poster id kinda be like ah lads really? so thats to the 'counterweight' point i guess

After a lot of thought and moderator consultation, calstars is permabanned. I hope there won't be too much need to perform "slagging off of the departed."

is that a forever-ban?

yes

ty for update and may god forgive our mods for what we ask of them in our name

xp yeah, none of that from me. it's honestly really fuckin sad. i have good will toward him. he just kept doing it for years you know? and will keep doing it. people called him out, some very gently, but no budging. i very seriously hope he gets to a better place. i do feel like if there's a real change involving taking responsibility and apologizing and all that and he wants back that could be an option. but i don't see it happening. just my 2 cents. anyway thanks mods and wmc. i love this place and everyone who posts here. it felt like a group decision. the best for everyone i think.

sometimes a barfly's best practice is to move along to another bar. (until they get sober ofc.)

Map otm

I hadn't quite understood the full scope of the behaviour, so yeah, I think it's a totally fair call. It's interesting to consider what responsibilities a community like this has to carry or contain this kind of thing, particularly when there are threads where people are prepared to make themselves vulnerable and clearly receive warmth and friendship in response. When the behaviour is so glaring and has gone on for so long with no sign of acknowledgement or contrition, it seems like fair dos.

And thanks to the mods for the work they do in making this place what it is.

One of the least flattering traits I bring here is hypervigilance/paranoia — part of what informs my position on not deleting the post is my experience with trying to rewire myself to be less so, don’t feel compelled to screenshot everything etc. And when the post remains, I don’t need to cover my bases. All that weighs on a person and I’d rather not give it any more of my energy.
I’m fine with the ban and only wish the evidence was crystal clear for the banning/not deleted. I have no animus about any of it and am grateful to have mods who listen.

Ohhhh god I think I’m user-blind or something. Until just a moment ago I thought calstars and calzino were the same poster and I’m reading this thinking “why is everybody getting mad at calzino? He’s a great poster”.

I think I once read a calstars post and thought “wow jeez calzino must be having a bad day”

Who among us hasn't confused them

I have never fwiw but I used to be an angry mod

haha when calzino is cranky it always makes me smile, he tells it like it is

a "real one" as they say

Being me I briefly thought they were the same person with two accounts — one for seeming normal and one for being an unpleasant barfly

That's the Keyser Soze play - in the end we are _all_ calstars

Insofar as barfly practice is concerned, I had two pints at my local and toward the end of the second I told a man down the bar to stop loudly saying the r-word, that it really sucked to be hearing it said loudly in a bar, and he claimed he was autistic, and had a right to it, and I told him he didn’t, and to stop, and then we shared a cigarette and he said some funny and stupid things and it was all ok.

Then he went inside to use the toilet and his friends started saying that they couldn’t take him anywhere, that just earlier than day he was saying the T-word in a coffee shop and I stubbed my cigarette out and put it in the garbage and said “well, goodnight” before the barfly could return

The word I have to practice the most conscientiousness about avoiding is “savage”, which is a word I like for its onomatopoeic quality, its versatility, and its mouthfeel. Some seven years ago an Indigenous friend expressed to me that certain in his community (incl. hisself) wanted that word restricted. No sweat, I said. I don’t use it except when talking about the word itself, or my second-favourite Eurythmics album

Don’t really understand why people don’t like to be told what words they can or cannot say. It’s fun, isn’t it? “Let’s find new words instead”

Good job buddy, you did the right thing.

god this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0PD6f6PpIk

I also appreciate being educated about new words to use. It took me a minute to realize I was an asshole for using certain terms but once I got a handle on my privilege and generational proclivities I’ve become Mr Inclusive Language Person at work, a role that somebody’s gotta do

Where I become language-cranky is around “I appreciate you”, what a fucking creepily passive-aggressive thing to say, oh I’m appreciated? like a painting or a vista lookout? It feels like a misuse of the word and a deliberate watering down of something more familiar, so “keeping you at arm’s length”. I don’t want to be appreciated I want to be loved gdi

Lol the first time I remember being struck by the use of “appreciate you” was when I was directing a team of McKinsey consultants we had hired to burn a bunch of leftover money

the project lead would regularly respond to my email directives with “thanks Tom, appreciate you!”

Where I become language-cranky is around “I appreciate you”, what a fucking creepily passive-aggressive thing to say, oh I’m appreciated

cultivate a praise kink and you will feel different about this

Nah I get it. "I appreciate you" is like your art being awarded 6/10 by someone you hardly know

I just googled it. To my ears and eyes “I appreciate you” smacks of something devised with the intention of diluting over-familiarity or specificity in appreciative gestures— a by-product of a committee meeting attempting to make expressions of appreciation “safer” or something, which in turn, to my eyes and ears, makes the appreciation feel contrived.

But a Google posits that it’s a Southern expression that was popularized by Ted Lasso. It definitely has a completely different connotation when I consider “I appreciate you” coming from a Southerner, in that context it feels charming and genuine. Hmm.

I've been using this for 20-30 years, and I apologize for it.

what’s wrong with being appreciated

It's ubiquitous in the south, I don't use it but I don't mind hearing it. Nothing to apologize for.

[

The word I have to practice the most conscientiousness about avoiding is “savage”, which is a word I like for its onomatopoeic quality, its versatility, and its mouthfeel. Some seven years ago an Indigenous friend expressed to me that certain in his community (incl. hisself) wanted that word restricted. No sweat, I said. I don’t use it except when talking about the word itself, or my second-favourite Eurythmics album

Don’t really understand why people don’t like to be told what words they can or cannot say. It’s fun, isn’t it? “Let’s find new words instead”

Man I feel like John McWhorter saying that I think using this word is totally fine unless using it in the very specific context of insult.

"savage" is the highest form of sincere praise something in my culture and we aren't changing it im afraid

that it has become similar in certain social groups in the US, too, shows the wideness and versatility of its use.

It's a pretty versatile word in jocular use, "savage" as a verb to mean "ravage", or as adjective that is adjacent to "sick" (complimentary), or as an exclamation ("savages!") resembling "philistines!" to describe a group of people with whom you disagree on an aesthetic level. I just don't use it any more. Most of my Indigenous friends wouldn't care and aren't even aware that certain other Indigenous people object to it, but, you know, one objector is enough for me. Like "dyke", I've just retired it from my vocabulary entirely because one or two lesbians who doesn't like me saying it is enough for me to stop saying it in any context.

Where I become language-cranky is around “I appreciate you”, what a fucking creepily passive-aggressive thing to say, oh I’m appreciated? like a painting or a vista lookout? It feels like a misuse of the word and a deliberate watering down of something more familiar, so “keeping you at arm’s length”. I don’t want to be appreciated I want to be loved gdi

― Stalin was a huge stoner and that’s why Communism (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, September 14, 2025 11:50 AM (five hours ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchB1SDJ2-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1ZvUDvLDY

re: "i appreciate you"
maybe inappropriate anecdote about inpatient psychiatric staff:
they prefer to take vitals twice daily and blood draws once every seven days. you can opt out. they prefer you not to. my roommate systematically refused and you don't know the true passive aggressive intimidation of the phrase "i appreciate you" until the tattoo covered 300lb 6 foot male nurse slightly flexes his scrubs tighter as he responds with it and puts the blood pressure monitor back on the cart.

hoping the best for calstars. i have not had a drink of alcohol in so long that i can't remember when the last one was. it was hard to stop. i knew i was being insufferable. i liked myself even less than i do now. i know this isn't really the thread for this, but i don't want anyone who i've met here to go through anything similar, even if they aren't the most exemplary people. agreed that timeouts are brilliant.

also ll otm "you hit submit, that's it!" alltime mantra!

❤️ I appreciate that

I actually like when people say they appreciate me. I don’t want anyone to love me for bringing their food but an appreciation is nice.

no, honestly! i wasn't gonna say anything but the discussion around when to delete/self-censor is relevant to my interests and you have some good points. so thank you!

and finally cosigning the round of thank yous for mods. thank you for reading, i will most likely never post in this thread again.👍🏻

It's a pretty versatile word in jocular use, "savage" as a verb to mean "ravage", or as adjective that is adjacent to "sick" (complimentary), or as an exclamation ("savages!") resembling "philistines!" to describe a group of people with whom you disagree on an aesthetic level. I just don't use it any more. Most of my Indigenous friends wouldn't care and aren't even aware that certain other Indigenous people object to it, but, you know, one objector is enough for me. Like "dyke", I've just retired it from my vocabulary entirely because one or two lesbians who doesn't like me saying it is enough for me to stop saying it in any context.

yeah i guess we just have different ways of dealing with this.