do the speakers of languages other than english consider their diminutive forms twee?

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italians, for example, have a phalanx of diminutive forms -- noun endings elaborated to indicate smallness or affection or both -- yet google translate tells me that the italian for twee is "twee" (in other words not a critical diagnosis that travels…)

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 09:59 (six years ago)

as a spanish speaker: yes, though it is part of masculinity in spanish-speaking places generally to be (excessively) sentimental with loved ones

iirc "twee" is a charge against masculinity in english, i.e. one supposes tweeness in women as expected but not in men

droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:10 (six years ago)

Affectionate.

Although I am very far away from Portuguese culture twee feels like an English thing and even now I wouldn't have encountered much if I wasn't aware of indie.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:12 (six years ago)

as a french speaker: not really, diminutives are not so important in french (well, dunno about quebeckers or les ultramarins). men kiss other men though without being twee about it.

droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:14 (six years ago)

I am not an expert, but I think it can be with Russian.

Use of a diminutive can be both affectionate or mocking / disrespectful depending on the context. Calling someone a diminutive name can be intended affectionately but perceived as overly cutesy and projecting juvenility on the recipient, or as just embarrassing, which has a crossover with what we might see as twee.

I think there is pushback on the kind of Innocent Smoothies aesthetic sometimes as well but idk whether twee is a stand-alone concept.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:15 (six years ago)

As a Dutch speaker: it's either twee/affectionate or demeaning/ironic, depending on the context.

lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:15 (six years ago)

further analysis via the mighty diagnostic tool of google translate

italian: no word for twee
french: no word for twee
dutch: no word for twee

spanish: repipi
german: zwitschern
portuguese: duas vezes
russian: изящный

jump in and correct if these translations seem imprecise, i speak no (0) languages other than english well, i'm embarrassed to say

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:18 (six years ago)

to amplify what I said about spanish a bit: it's expected that a manly man will be able to be (what seems from the outside) excessively affectionate with close people, and it is an affectation of sorts, though not in the "frivolous" or "playing around" way that it functions in UK culture. i.e. Pedro's not a dandy just because he calls his friend Adolfo, Fito.

droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:20 (six years ago)

german: zwitschern

This means 'chirping' or 'tweeting' rather than twee tbh

lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 6 September 2018 10:23 (six years ago)

mighty diagnostic tool humbled

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 11:16 (six years ago)

I think twee is childish/childlike rather than un-masculine, though obviously you're not supposed to be masculine and childish at the same time.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 11:38 (six years ago)

“'Pom,' said Pooh. 'I put that in to make it more hummy.' ” And it is that word “hummy,” my darlings, that marks the first place in “The House at Pooh Corner” at which Tonstant Weader Fwowed up

etymonline.com says twee derives from "childish pronunciation of sweet"*, to mean (per 1905) "tiny, dainty, miniature" and says "compare tummy for stomach" -- so i guess it was an item of quasi-babytalk that at some point became iconic (note correct use!) for all similar babytalk?

*SOED adds in a stage: "twee = minced pronun. of tweet, for sweet", while chambers suggests a contraction is going on, of tiny and sweet

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 12:05 (six years ago)

Parker also suggests there's a contraction, a gastric one

mick signals, Thursday, 6 September 2018 13:00 (six years ago)

portuguese: duas vezes

This means "twice". No Portuguese or German equivalent for twee that I know of.

Diminuitive in Portuguese can be used mockingly or to evoke preciousness (wouldn't go as far as twee; agree with Julio that this seems quite an English language concept), but mostly just second nature, really - you have a cafézinho, you wait another horinha, no one thinks twice about it.

Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:14 (six years ago)

Romance languages are more direct and therefore just say homo/fag/gay, none of this ambiguous/layered meaning english has

F# A# (∞), Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:17 (six years ago)

This means "twice"

haha yes i shd probably have guessed that?

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:28 (six years ago)

English is surely not the only language with babytalk!??!

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:39 (six years ago)

of course: so i guess the issue is, are there other languages where adults use it -- and what attaches to it culturally -- with one another?

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:43 (six years ago)

and not just to babies, or in children's books

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:43 (six years ago)

Monkeys do it

mick signals, Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:54 (six years ago)

feel like - from video games and books - Japanese does this, but would need somebody fluent to confirm or deny

fuck giving a bear beer (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:04 (six years ago)

the monkeys are using babytalk with infant monkeys -- do they use it with one another?

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:11 (six years ago)

its familiar and warm as gaeilge i wouldnt say twee

lee guacamole (darraghmac), Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:14 (six years ago)

TS: niminy-piminy vs. namby-pamby

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:23 (six years ago)

is english the only language which does that hoity toity/pish posh thing?
cz i absolutely utterly love it:
viz huggermugger, niminy piminy, argybargy, hobson jobson etc etc
― mark s (mark s), Friday, May 16, 2003 1:46 PM (fifteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol i seem strangely keen down the years to identify the stuff that ONLY ENGLISH DOES

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:31 (six years ago)

Slight variation, heedrum-hodrum

Scottish Country Tweerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:38 (six years ago)

nice exhaustive list here: https://www.trussel.com/flipflop.htm

tho i feel that Lib-Lab and (even more) Fleet Street are reaching

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:43 (six years ago)

Phase Four—“Mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus, hoity toity, hotsy totsy . . . ” Mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus, hoity toity, hotsy totsy, acey deucy, hoochy koochy, hinky dinky, heeby jeeby, harum scarum, helter skelter, honky tonky, palsy walsy, lovey dovey, pitter patter, teeter totter, tootsie wootsie, boogie woogie, piggy wiggy.
Razzle dazzle, rosy posy, georgie porgy, roly poly, walky talky, namby pamby, wishy washy, twiddle twaddle, tittle tattle, fiddle faddle, shilly shally, dilly dally, silly billy, willy nilly, fuddy duddy, hunky dory, teenie weenie, itsy bitsy.
Look out! He’s got a gun!

coetzee.cx (wins), Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:47 (six years ago)

Another Scottish one, easy-osy.

Scottish Country Tweerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:49 (six years ago)

Is that also a feature in Yiddish that has transferred over in things like ‘bagel schmagel’?

Russian sometimes uses the same structure where you have a parodic/nonsense second word to make fun of the first, or make it sound smaller / less consequential - there is a kebab chain called Shashlik Mashlik, when the uwu prosecutor from Crimea popular with anime fans was told by a journalist the internet thought she was cute (or nyash), she famously responded ‘nyash myash’, etc.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:01 (six years ago)

OI MATES

coetzee.cx (wins), Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:03 (six years ago)

nice exhaustive list here

inexcusably doesn't include 'tappy lappy'

soref, Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:09 (six years ago)

the uwu prosecutor from Crimea popular with anime fans

rabbithole-dabbithole

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:14 (six years ago)

She is quite a character. Wants to bring the Romanovs back.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:15 (six years ago)

Yes, monkeys also girney-wirney when interacting with a dominant member of the same species, and when avoiding further conflict after becoming victim of an agonistic interaction.

mick signals, Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:24 (six years ago)

tonstant weader agonisticawwy intewacted

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:26 (six years ago)

She is quite a character. Wants to bring the Romanovs back.

Undoubtedly nyash all the same.

Scottish Country Tweerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:33 (six years ago)

Yes, monkeys also girney-wirney when interacting with a dominant member of the same species, and when avoiding further conflict after becoming victim of an agonistic interaction

This website coming handy this evening, http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/girnie

Scottish Country Tweerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 17:36 (six years ago)


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