Fashion: How Do You Start?

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Where do you go? Who do you need to know?

I'm sick of being unfashionable (well OK, actually I'm not but for the sake of argument let's say I am). Can unfashionable people become fashionable? And how would a 'rounded man' the wrong side of 25 get started? CHEAPLY!

Oh I'm talking about Fashion in the sense of clothes and things.

Tom, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's very hard to do. To be honest I think unless you've got the money to do it then don't bother trying. I wish there was some kind of shop where you could buy interesting cheap clothes (maybe even second hand) that were fashionable.

Greg, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hennes & Zara!

Nick, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Style, F.Nietzsche teaches us, is derived from the word stylum, the Roman pen/blade which cut into a wax tablet, also the term for the prow of a ship as it cuts thru the water [this iz totally from memory and may be crap as regards Mr-Laffing-Lions scholarship goes btw ]: anyway, fashion is not abt following it iz about LEADING!! It is not abt timidity or disguise, it is abt bold openness. Make those skinny pinhedz JEALOUS OF YR HEROIC GIRTH AND EDGILY MASSIVE STREET-BULK!! Yr silhouette is a weapon, yr garb its dramatizing and energising and surprising pre-stroke handling.

They have no fat = they have no third all- body brane. What you wear must declaim THIS!! (Also: check out the chick in The Gossip...)

mark s, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

fashion is not abt following it iz about LEADING!! It is not abt timidity or disguise, it is abt bold openness.

I think you're confusing fashion with being some kind of freak.

Nick, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Stripey deck chair style shirts are in at the moment. I think Mike Love and J.Mascis are very stylish.

jel, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You definitely can become fashionable. I will never forget some girl started the new school year with some new *threads*. The year before she had been unfashionable. Suddenly she was considered part of the ingroup.

I don't really care about being fashionable. I just go in the shop, stick my hand out and buy the first thing I catch. ;-) Of course I only frequent the hip shops.

Tom, *cheaply*? That is impossibile! Maybe ten years ago when Grunge was *hot*. Although of course you could only be really hip if you wore Marc Jacobs clothes. (Just kidding)

Uh sorry I don't give info away for free. ;-) Just don't do H&M. Low prices but also low quality.

nathalie, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Does it look good on you? Are you comfortable in it? My fashion needs summed up.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Fashion? FUCK fashion.
What you need is style.
Go classic. Fashion's for the birds.

DavidM, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

... for the BIRDS? *shudder*. God, I hate that word.

nathalie, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't think he means birds=women in this context if it's any consolation.

Nick, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh okay, I was just about to load my shotgun. ;-)

nathalie, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ILE CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH! Part 35.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Go down Camden market and you too can be (slightly) fashionable very cheaply. Pretend you have your own style (which in fact belongs to countless thousands!) Yay etc!

Bill, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Alternative method would be to, via an immense exertion of psychic power, CHANGE REALITY so that my ratty M&S smart-casual slacks are somehow hyper-fash. I mean it's frankly more likely than me setting foot in Camden Market.

Tom, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You just need a leather jacket really.

jel, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, you need Italian shoes.

De Ville, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Go to thrifts and find what you think is pretty. Slowly move up to the bigger stores. but remain mostly in thrifts

anthony, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And what if the Italian won't give up his shoes? (*groan*)

jel, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'll give him some of my shoes

francesco, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually the latest fashion (at least what the NME thinks) is to dress like the strokes. so! Old school blazer, tie etc and you're there!

Bill, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Strokesband are by no stretch of even the NME's imagination 'rounded' though.

Tom, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Camden? CHEAP? Is this some other non-north London Camden we're talking about?

DG, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I go to the Salvation Army for the tackiest clothes I can find. I do not consider this fashionable, however; I just got sick of my polo shirts and jeans. I have no idea how to become fashionabe, but where's the interest?

Lyra, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The only fashion that is respected worldwide at all times is simplicity. Anything else comes and goes. People who are always onto the latest thing seem to always be playing dress up and have no real identity. Don't think it goes unnoticed! Wear colors that flatter you skin tone and cuts that flatter your body type. The people who discount you as lame are trying too hard to be unlame and are, therefore, lame.

I'm always amazed the way people look up to Madonna, for instance, as some sort of fashion goddess. It is SO silly. The first rule of marketing is that people will buy whatever you tell them to buy. Madonna and others wear whatever is NOT being worn currently with confidence and suddenly everyone is following suit like a bunch of mindless automatons. If you wear what YOU wear with confidence (and you should) you will always be "fashionable" in someone's eyes.

Nude Spock, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And if you wear it with confidence and you're not fashionable in anyone else's eyes, well, it doesn't much matter what they think, does it? You're confident. Win-win situation. Eventually I will understand in a Zen-like flash.

Playing dress up is great fun, though. The best part of shopping.

Lyra, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

flanel shirts and cargo pants are the way forward tom - go forth and grunge!

Geoff, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Incidentally, I was once wearing a very Indian cab-driver looking button up $12 rayon short-sleeve shirt (hot summer day, I knew what I was wearing) and a "friend" of mine blurted out while drunk, "Nice shirt, where'd you get that? El Dorado jeans? Why don't you get a real shirt?" It was one of those comments that was serious and condescending, but if no matter what you say, you will get the response, "Oh, lighten up, I was just kidding." You know, one of those subtle put-downs you're just supposed to take.

There's a lot of truth in kidding, as we all know. Anyway, without batting an eyelash, I said in the same joking tone, "Why? So people like *YOU* won't judge me?" It's the perfect line for when people try to be snotty because it suddenly makes the offensive person very defensive (especially if you sound kind of disgusted when you say *YOU*). Even if they say, "Oh lighten up", you've won hands down. There's no intelligent comeback to that because you've said the unspeakable truth. It definitely changed the expression on this girl's face. It was funny and no, there wasn't a big fight and yes, we still are friends and no, I wasn't being overly defensive because I really didn't care. That's been my patented response since I went through the dumb punk phase at age 15. However, it's a lot more effective if you don't have a really dumb punk outfit on when you say it. It works especially well, if you're just dressed "normal".

Nude Spock, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am often inspired by the very old and the very young: people in their 70s and 80s often dress very well, and so do pre-schoolers. Old immigrants in New York dress well (Chinatowners, Lithuanians.)

I spend very little on clothes, but enjoy picking things out at thrifts with what I'd consider a graphic designer's eye. This pattern (floral) on its own has a limited set of associations (silk bathrobes, old gents clubs), but put together with this other one (pinstripes, with a 1920s court stenographer flavour) they create an interesting confusion. The best thrift store in the world is Humana at Berlin Alexanderplatz.

I like looks which suggest other ways of thinking / being: Muslim suits (cheap in the Bangla stores on Brick Lane), hippy mixed with uniform, the maximum brilliance colours of toddler-wear (a look you can get away with even if 'rounded')...

Oh, and one final pointer: never, ever, take fashion tips from musicians or music publications.

[Breaks into 'Think Pink' from 'Funny Face', dances a special 'clothes empowerment' tap, reads excerpts from 'The Madwoman's Underclothes' by Germaine Greer]

Momus, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pink is my signuture color. I wear somethign pink at least half the time.

Anthony
Who always thinks pink

anthony, Sunday, 19 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, I cannot believe that you had to ask the interweb this question when you are surrounded by real life chums who epitomise style and fashionability. You could've come to us y'know.

Emma, Monday, 20 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, I'll be your midnight fashion consultant, consultant for money!

marianna, Monday, 20 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, just wear what you want, you'll never become a stylish man listening to what other people think you should wear. You'll just look like everyone else that way.

As a side note: can someone please explain to me why my boyfriend's goal in life is to, and I quote, "look like the biggest wanker alive"? What kind of goal is that?

Ally, Monday, 20 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Look like the biggest wanker alive" : I tried this out of sheer contrariness a few years ago, to the dismay of a loved one. I was chucked within seconds.

Benjamin, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Unfortunately his idea of dressing like the biggest wanker alive looks really cute. BUT THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING TO ADVERTISE! "Yes, I'm trying to look all wanky" - I mean, what?

Ally, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...
So it doesn't look like I'm only giving life to my own threads...

jel, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have been swank super fashionable lately, I look like a supastar. Everyone's all, oh, you look real nice today, did you do something different? And I'm all, no, I am just naturally fabulous.

Ally, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

go to op-shops, Tom. firstly, they are cheap. secondly, you will be able to create your own unique style (if you want to, that is). thirdly, op-shop clothes are clothes that REAL people have already worn, so you are quite likely to find something that fits you, rather than the fashion industry's narrow idealised view of what men and women are supposed to look like that gets shoved down our throats in every fashion store.

di, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...
None of the answers above have given a practical advice. It's all very well and good to parp on about 'feeling good is looking good' and other such pseudo-american self-help crap but I sense the need for real answers.

1) A suit. All guys look good in a decent suit. Single breasted. Black pin-stripe. Find a decent shirt to wear with it - white can work, I prefer a dark blue or grey one. tie isn't necessary but if you'd feel better in one then wear a simple one, understated colours and slight pattern. I don't really need to say this but avoid at all costs anything 'wacky'. ie. a Daffy Duck tie or some shit.

2) If you'd feel a bit too dressed up for a suit then just try a classic shirt (again don't for for wild colours or patterns unless you want to look like a cretinous Ibiza 'lad'), matched with a decent pair of jeans (expect to pay about £40 for something that doesn't look either 80s or laughably futuristic). Pair of smart black shoes. A black leather jacket if it looks good (generally only works for the skinnier guy, but have a try anyway) or maybe even the jacket from that suit you should've bought. Maybe consider material other than jeans - thin cord can look good. A slight flare on the trousers is not a bad thing. Underwear? Go commando, you're a free living guy. Oh yeah, untuck that shirt and undo the top button, maybe get a subtle necklace/bead thing to go round your neck (no gold or lots of big thick beads). Lose any facial hair you might have. Don't be blonde or have any 'zany' colour in your hair unless you're still in your mid- teens. And voila, you look good. Mind you, all this is no good if you talk like a buffoon, but hey, that's another topic.

Ian, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

great line which i must now look out in the Arcades Project abt how the modern bourgeois male (in Baudelaire's time, in 1930s, in post above) dresses as if the funeral were eternal and omnipresent

why oh why is it not available in hypertext?

mark s, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ian's first bit of advice is correct. Suits are good.

Ian's second bit of advice is terrible. Never EVER wear jeans with suit jackets. You will look like JEREMY CLARKSON. And GAH! Untucked shirts!

jamesmichaelward, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Start with a pair of pants that fit and a nice pair of shoes and go from there. It's imperative to have a woman friend who dresses very well on the cheap help you out.

dan, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

James, glad you agree on the suit comment. Though I must go into more detail about the jeans - it's true that certain pairs of jeans can look awful and give the horrific Clarkson Effect. This is why the pair of jeans you buy has to be of a very special quality, not your average jeans - think of tucks at the knees, or weird denim that doesn't look like denim. But you're right about the jeans w/ suit jacket looking horrible, this is almost always the case - a mistake that slipped in there. Apologies.

However, I stand by my untucked shirt advice. A tucked in shirt can seem terribly stiff and dad-at-the-barlike - particularly in relation to jeans (actually don't buy jeans - they're too much trouble). A shirt untucked on a suit is touch and go. Again, it appear less rigid and formal but can look a touch too shabby. Depends where you are. But if you do desire to have your shirt tucked in then you *need* a belt. Preferably a thick black belt with a thick yet non-80s rockstar buckle.

And in response to Mark, I'd very much like to read this piece you speak of. It seems that dignity and elegance do go hand in hand with bleakness. Look at Leonard Cohen, Tindersticks, Nick Cave, etc. You may not like them but you cannot say that they lack style and refinement.

Ian, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Suit jacket + jeans = Jeremy Clarkson

Regardless of the jacket, the jeans or the person wearing them, there's no escaping this equation (see WESTLIFE on CD:UK last week!)

And looking awkward and out of place IS style, no?

jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not exactly. Awkwardness is the antithesis of style.

Kim, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

style is a far bigger asset than fashion. you could go to all the flash shops and buy whats hot and look like a clothes horse; and cringe over the photos later. I prefer to wear whatever I damn well like, generally unfashionable though uniquely styled, and watch people cringe now. I can afford to do that since I don't have a job. I am a student I relish my opportunity for sloppiness. I guess guys need to have a suit, not a 70's brown one like my fathers preferably, especially if you work in office kinda places. To me shoes are a big thing too, I always notice what peoples shoes are like so make 'em good.

casual gets a bit more iffy doesn't it? and how does one manage this cheaply? tell me and I might start looking better

Menelaus Darcy, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not exactly. Awkwardness is the antithesis of style.

But what if you work that awkwardness?

jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No James, just drop it.

Nick, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

seven months pass...
Is this the passage you meant mark?

"As for the garb, the outer husk, of the modern hero ... , has not this much-maligned garb its own native beauty and charm? Is it not the necessary garb of our suffering age, which wears the symbol of perpetual mourning even on its thin black shoulders? Notice how the black suit and the frock coat possess not only their political beauty, which is an expression of universal equality, but also their poetic beauty, which is an expression of the public soul -- an endless procession of hired mourners, political mourners, amorous mourners, bourgeois mourners. We are all of us celebrating some funeral." Benjamin citing Baudelaire. Arcades Project J39,3

alext, Tuesday, 2 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

it is!!

mark s, Tuesday, 2 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

two weeks pass...
so, in londontown say, where are, say, these thrift shops or standard clothes-shopping regions? i am feeling a bit of tom's old dilemma but lack the sense to figure out where anything is!

dave k, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahahaha, blimey where is bifferdyspacktroll these days? Best email address evvah? I do believe so.

Charity shop runs: Mornington Crescent >> Camden, Putney High Street.

Sarah, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

some pretty good ones in the old hammersmith/shepherd's bush area as well (i got a vintage floor length green swirly velvet dress for £7.50 in the Red Cross shop on shepherds bush road the other day hurrah!!!) but like all things you have to hunt around. i like the TRAID shops but they're quite pricey...

katie, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Buy stuff new and jump and down on it til it looks wrecked. Great exercise and probably cheaper than buying 'vintage'.

jel --, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

my finances are dire enough that i'll take cheap over fashionable... what i'd love is the UK equivalent of, like, K-mart so I could by cheap/tacky clothes by the cubic meter or somesuch... my officemate is way fashionable and is wearing all black despite the summer weather. he's CRAZY.

dave k, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

tk maxx, uni qlo, matalan...

jel --, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

PRIMARK!

Sarah, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

BYRITE! (I got the shirt I was wearing at trig bro from the one on Oxford Street next to HMV)

jel --, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Blimey-o, really Jel?? I really liked that shirt!

Sarah, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

LABEL WAREHOUSE MUTHAS!! EVERYTHING A FIVER!

katie, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yep! it's true Starry! that Byrite is full of surprises!

jel --, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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