Is the US a dystopia?

option 3 ftw

US perfidy always comes back to tea

not really

hm sounds like you're either a "no" or "The Beatles" but afaict you can still secretly vote however you wish

it's going to take a lot of restraint not to shoehorn this in to thread connections

I figured it was what it was for.

least serious answer is the correct one

by that you mean "yes"?

oh misread "least" as "last" nevermind

This question is unhelpful and I have no idea why it is being asked.

Badly trimmed shrub = dystopiary

Dropped the clay - dyspottery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu3iH0R_GM

I mean, pulling up the forecast today and seeing tornado warnings for Chicago in mid-December doesn't make me not think it's a dystopia.

an imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or post-apocalyptic.

not imagined, authoritarian rather than totalitarian and pre-apocalyptic instead of post IMO

so maybe it's not a dystopia but merely dystopic

dystopic? I dunno. but ilx is def dyspeptic today.

I did not remotely intend this thread to be serious, but there's an argument to be made that 1492 counts as the apocalypse

Can the apocalypse be local?

Americans rly struggle with not being the world and i think its quite telling tbh

let it beatles

Climate catastrophe is going to be pretty universal IIRC.

which is v little to do with the point about 1492 is it

you can get with dystopia, or you can get with datopia

just throwing this out there but maybe dystopia fans are blind to dystopias

I dunno I think most fans of the crust punk band Dystopia probably would agree that the USA is a dystopia fwiw

let me see, is the US a dystopia.

the republican party is trying to actively KILL a lot of people. let me just see how that plays in the polls

The approval rating among those who voted for [Biden] has dropped from 80% to 69% in the April survey. There have been notable declines among Americans 18-34 and suburban residents, both of whom, in dramatic swings, now register net negative views on the president.

As bad as Biden’s number may be, the polling data for Democrats in Congress is far worse.

Republicans now sport a historic 10-point advantage when Americans are asked which party they prefer to control Congress, holding a 44%-34% margin over Democrats. That’s up from a 2-point Republican advantage in the October survey.

In the past 20 years, CNBC and NBC surveys have never registered a double-digit Republican advantage on congressional preference, with the largest lead ever being 4 pints for the GOP.

“If the election were tomorrow, it would be an absolute unmitigated disaster for the Democrats,″ said Jay Campbell, partner at Hart Research Associates and the Democratic pollster for the survey.

yes it's a full blown dystopia

nah but rich people have never had it better tho

A 4 pint lead is difficult to overcome tbh. sorry

Can the apocalypse be local?

Americans rly struggle with not being the world and i think its quite telling tbh

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Friday, December 10, 2021 8:10 PM (one hour ago)

I was addressing "the apocalypse" that it could be argued helps to confirm the US as a dystopia, the subject of this important poll. So I guess I do think it can be local, idk, why not? Anyway Columbus never even entered future-US territory, it's more of a symbolic hinge year for everything being terrible from then on

I'd figure most people using the term think in the sense of dystopian science fiction and I kinda think 2021 has quite a few elements that seem like out of such.

There's no utopia that's not someone's dystopia, and vice versa.

The notion of local dystopias is an interesting one. Could be that there was an egalitarian paradise unfolding just a continent or two over from Mad Max.

If the US ticks all the boxes- and there's a case- then clearly plenty of very nice places to live in exist besides so id say thats a clear yes

Have we ever not been? Slave state — apartheid state — Vietnam/Watergate — Corporate state — Fury Road (2016-present)

the people in the mayfield candle factory that collapsed worked 12-hour shifts that paid $8 an hour. 110 ppl were inside. 40 ppl are still unaccounted for. they haven’t recovered a survivor since 3 am. pic.twitter.com/CsIIfLw3Pc

— Tracy Moore (@iusedtobepoor) December 11, 2021

it’s legal in kentucky to fire someone for refusing to work mandatory overtime

— Tracy Moore (@iusedtobepoor) December 11, 2021

The notion of local dystopias is an interesting one. Could be that there was an egalitarian paradise unfolding just a continent or two over from Mad Max.

Zardoz is another one. Although The Eternals are mainly a bunch of insufferable bores and their egalitarian paradise is pretty lame, but you wouldn't complain about it if you were being held captive by Charlotte Rampling.

Slave state — apartheid state — Vietnam/Watergate — Corporate state — Fury Road (2016-present)

We didn't start the fire, etc.

Let's see what all we have...you got this one.

US combined laissez-faire capitalism on it's drug industry and combined with heroin blow-back from the 'war on terror' created the opioid epidemic for fun and profit killing over a million Americans since 1999.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Le Guin wrote a book about a moon. Also was there some Cold War global political framework in her gender-bender book? I don't recall.

Climate catastrophe is going to be pretty universal IIRC.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, December 11, 2021 1:14 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

which is v little to do with the point about 1492 is it

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, December 11, 2021 1:17 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

It is though (unless I'm misreading). The USA is the biggest historical contributor to the climate crisis. An argument could be made that if 1492 never happened, there would be no global crisis. Same for much of global environmental destruction -- Amazon forest all gone? Thank Ronald McDonald.

Local teachers in South Dakota “Dash for Cash” to help their classrooms by fighting over $5,000 in $1 bills while the crowd hoots and hollers. pic.twitter.com/azwGJKhaKU

— Eoin Higgins (@EoinHiggins_) December 12, 2021

they're going to remove that rug at some point

and then charge them for it!

An argument could be made that if 1492 never happened, there would be no global crisis.

Are we talking a world where Europe never came into contact with the Americas?

I can’t live without potatoes

-LL McCooljay

It would have happened eventually.

I can’t live without potatoes

OTM

Lol, Neanderthal.

Holding antisemitic ideas is not illegal in the USA. Taking certain kinds of antisemitic actions can cross into illegality, but the ideas are not criminalized.

Hell, I'm going to Lisbon with my parents in early June and I'm scared about the return.

xp

Even less illegal is "criticizing the government of another country," which is most of what they're calling antisemitism. But that doesn't stop them from cosplaying the police state they're trying to create. Fake it til you make it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dhs-agents-denied-entry-at-two-los-angeles-schools/ar-AA1CH5nv?

Homeland Security agents attempted to enter two Los Angeles schools this week, in what is believed to be their first such attempt in the city since the Trump administration began its strict immigration crackdown.

The agents were denied entry.

Two federal officials attempted to enter Lillian Street Elementary School and Russell Elementary School on Monday — both located in L.A.’s Florence-Graham neighborhood. School administrators turned them away, following Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) protocols.

The agents were from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the district later confirmed.

Re IDEAS...

Mahmoud Khalil can be expelled for his beliefs alone, US government argues

thanks Kim. I know "technically" you can't be deported for IDEAS, but that that is clearly what is happening right now

from Rubio's memo:

Under INA section 237(a)(4)(C)(i), an alien is deportable from the United States if the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe that the alien's presence or activities in the United States would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States. Under INA section 237(a)(4)(C)(ii), for cases in which the basis for this determination is the alien's past, current, or expected beliefs, statements, or associations that are otherwise lawful, the Secretary of State must personally determine that the alien's presence or activities would compromise a compelling U.S. foreign policy interest.

The most generous read is intellectual property theft but corporate espionage and the like are when the FBI swoops in, not ICE. They’re just reveling in being ghouls

would compromise a compelling U.S. foreign policy interest

note it's not a 'security interest', it's just pissing off the israelis they're talking about

Man wanted after video shows him performing sex acts on corpse on NYC subway

Honestly it just reinforces my belief that the US is a client state of Israel

also, while not "deportation" per se, hundreds of international students are having their visas revoked for reasons like: having the wrong political views, jaywalking, not being white

I bet the people who thought it was a violation of freedom of speech to be ratioed on Twitter for being racist are up in arms about the actual government cracking down on political speech.

https://www.propublica.org/article/tiger-algorithm-louisiana-parole-calvin-alexander

Gift link. The dystopia continues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/11/realestate/colorado-homeless-parking-lot-affordable-housing.html?unlocked_article_code=1._k4.K5Uo.Mj51Da7NDYan&smid=url-share

xp That article seemed run-of-the-mill dystopian, until the twist: The evil algorithm, now given unilateral power to disqualify prisoners from parole consideration, began its life as a good algorithm, meant to reduce recidivism rates by identifying prisoners who could benefit from targeted interventions during their time behind bars.

to answer the thread title...yes, unequivocally

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/14/paper-receipt-chemical-bisphenol-s

High levels of toxic chemicals found in paper receipts used by US retailers

Even more dystopic because this has been known since at least 2018 but impossible to get any legal traction on

“It’s like a citizen’s arrest, but with Wi-Fi,” Gaetz said on a recent episode of his One America News Network show. “Forget driving Uber or DoorDash for extra change. Snap a pic, save the day, and stack some digital cash while you’re doing it.”

https://www.theverge.com/tech/650015/iceraid-app-immigrant-bounty-hunting-crypto

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/04/21/starved-in-jail

Jury convicts a California judge of second-degree murder in his wife’s shooting death

By AMY TAXIN and JAIMIE DING, Associated PressUpdated April 22, 2025 5:48 p.m.

Orange County Superior Judge Jeffrey Ferguson, left, who was found guilty of second-degree murder in the shooting death of his wife Sheryl Ferguson in 2023, embraces his son, Phillip Ferguson, before being led away in handcuffs on Tuesday, April 22, 2025, in Santa Ana, Calif. (Mindy Schauer/The Orange County Register via AP, Pool)

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Jurors convicted a Southern California judge of second-degree murder on Tuesday for fatally shooting his wife while the couple argued and watched television at home.

Orange County Superior Court Judge Jeffrey Ferguson, 74, was on trial for the 2023 death of his wife Sheryl, 65, in their Anaheim Hills home. Ferguson took the stand in his own defense, admitting to shooting his wife but saying it was an accident.

Jurors reached their decision Tuesday afternoon, a day after deliberations began. After the verdict was read in court, Ferguson was given a moment to hug his son before he was handcuffed and taken into custody. He was also found guilty of a felony gun enhancement and faces a maximum prison term of 40 years to life when he is sentenced June 13.

Ferguson's attorney Cameron Talley said the defense plans to appeal.

“I respect the jury's verdict,” Talley said. “At the same time, we all know that juries don't always get it right ... I still believe in Jeff.”

The verdict comes after a previous jury deadlocked in March and Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Eleanor J. Hunter declared a mistrial. Hunter has overseen the case to avoid a conflict of interest with the Superior Court in Orange County, where Ferguson presided over criminal cases until the shooting.

The case had roiled the legal community in the county, which is home to 3 million people between Los Angeles and San Diego. Many have known or worked with Ferguson for decades, including Orange County District Attorney Todd Spitzer.

“There are no winners here," Spitzer said during a news conference after the verdict. “Justice was achieved, but I’m very sad for the Ferguson family.”

Prosecutors said Ferguson had been drinking before he made a gun-like hand gesture toward his wife of 27 years during an argument about family finances they had during dinner at a Mexican restaurant on Aug. 3, 2023. Prosecutors said the argument continued at home while the couple was watching “Breaking Bad” on TV with their adult son, and Sheryl Ferguson chided her husband to point a real gun at her. He did, then pulled the trigger, prosecutors said.

Ferguson testified that he was removing the gun from his ankle holster to place it on a table, and fumbled it, and it discharged.

Immediately after the shooting, Ferguson and his son both called 911, and Ferguson texted his court clerk and bailiff saying, “I just lost it. I just shot my wife. I won’t be in tomorrow. I will be in custody. I’m so sorry,” according to a copy of a text message shown to jurors. His son Phillip testified to tackling his father to wrestle the gun away after the shooting and performing CPR on his mother.

Ferguson spoke with police outside his home and again once he was in custody, and was seen on video sobbing and saying his son and everyone would hate him. In the video, he said he killed his wife and pleaded for a jury to convict him.

Authorities said they found 47 weapons, including the gun used in the shooting, and more than 26,000 rounds of ammunition at the home, and said Ferguson had ample experience and training in firearms.

“This was not an accident. Ferguson was trained to never point a gun at anything he didn’t intend to destroy," Spitzer said in a statement about the verdict.

Ferguson was a long-time prosecutor who became a judge in 2015. He began his legal career in the district attorney’s office in 1983 and went on to work on narcotics cases, winning various awards.

Ferguson had been out on $2 million bail but was not presiding in court as the state constitution bars a judge facing a felony charge from hearing cases.

April 22, 2025|Updated April 22, 2025 5:48 p.m.

just a sad headline:

More Americans using 'buy now, pay later' loans to finance groceries

Isn’t “buy now, pay later” the premise of a loan?

it's just this 'installment' thing that appears to be everywhere now, just grim that people are using it for groceries

I owe my soul to the company store etc.

In the UK, people who were using Klarna or similar found themselves disqualified from mortgages and other loans, so I really hope people stay the Hell away from those lenders.

I owe my soul to the company store

I always found the principle behind food co-ops (you must spend a certain amount of hours per month working here to earn the privilege of buying food here) really dystopian and fucked-up, but that's probably just me being a hater again.

people who were using Klarna or similar found themselves disqualified from mortgages

so using shady, exploitative credit to buy ramen noodles doesn't help build up a healthy credit score? Good to know

_I owe my soul to the company store _

I always found the principle behind food co-ops (you must spend a certain amount of hours per month working here to earn the privilege of buying food here) really dystopian and fucked-up, but that's probably just me being a hater again.

Also dystopian: UK mortgages are apparently all variable rate, no such thing as a fixed rate mortgage for thirty years.

that's for another thread

Err. I understand if people have a bad impression of co-ops, the Park Slope one is practically a cult. But the whole point is getting lower prices because it's not a for-profit store or it's a worker-owned (owner-worked?) collective. I don't get how that's dystopian unless it's Opposite Day and I didn't notice until now.

I would totally hand out free samples at Costco a couple hours a month instead of paying for my membership lol

Costco-op

Err. I understand if people have a bad impression of co-ops, the Park Slope one is practically a cult. But the whole point is getting lower prices because it's not a for-profit store or it's a worker-owned (owner-worked?) collective. I don't get how that's dystopian unless it's Opposite Day and I didn't notice until now.

I mean, REI is (or was) ostensibly a 'co-op' but I've never seen any 'members' working there

consumers forming a co-operative to buy food at a lower markup is dystopian?

yeah, was gonna say

seems kinda utopian if anything, for better or for worse

at many of those that i've been to, you get "member deals" amounting to a few dollars every month, but dues often add up to more than one would save.

in addition, many of them don't actually stock much good food, just overpriced junk food like GoMacro Bars and other trash.

i have worked in member-owned co-ops, corporate grocery stores, and small family organic grocery stores— let me assure you that the member-owned co-ops were definitely the scammiest.

in general, most of them remind me of the local compost company, where you pay them to collect your compost, and then they re-sell the compost to whoever they want. so basically, you pay them so that they can get paid. it's a total scam!

We belong to a member owned co-op. We pay no dues, beyond working shifts. The food selection is great and the produce is quality. And prices are far, far below our local groceries. Working a shift (every 6 weeks) is enjoyable thanks to the other members and the full-time staff being good folks. I semi-dread going to a grocery when we need something outside co-op hours.

I mean, REI is (or was) ostensibly a 'co-op' but I've never seen any 'members' working there
I did in 1996.

A year later I had a finance job where I met with the chairman/personal client by chance halfway across the country. Good talk about what I thought a coop should do lol.
In the next 30 yrs they continued 100% in the other direction until- two weeks ago while working as a project organizer volunteer for a local community thing I felt a real lack of baaasic cooperation. I pulled the manager (same store I’d worked at!) out of her loops and bitched her out as a local and former employee about how it used to get done, and how bad they were failing even as a member owned coop. Even as a local retail.

But the member owned coops— ime they can be fine. As bulb relates above.

REI’s union busting podcast that started with a land acknowledgement was the height of comedy.

in orbit otm

i guess the coops near me just suck? i mean this is objectively true tbh— their prices are outrageous and membership benefits are negligible— like sorry i am not paying a fee or working shifts so i can get 20 cents off a pack of Newman O’s

Yeah tabes sorry I didn't mean to start a whole thing! You are absolutely more experienced than I am personally in this area. I don't even think I have that many co-ops anywhere near me (although I'm trying to get involved with one that's not open yet). I was just surprised bc I didn't know this model was so abused.

from an article about bombing yemen:

There was little immediate comment from the US, though the defence secretary, Pete Hegseth, has emphasised that the American military must emphasise “lethality, lethality, lethality” and has cut programmes intended to minimise civilian harm.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/sos-migrants-held-texas-fear-notorious-el-salvador-prison-2025-04-30/

https://www.pa.gov/content/dam/copapwp-pagov/en/stateboard/documents/regulations-and-statements/state-academic-standards/career%20education%20and%20work%20standards%20(appendix%20e-1).pdf

Pennsylvania DOE standards for K-12 to teach things like the Entrepreneurial Mindset and how kindergartners can start to develop a personal brand

if you're gonna be a cattle rancher you gotta start early