Sight and Sound 2022 Top 20

I remember thinking when the last list came out that Vertigo was kind of an odd choice for "greatest movie ever made" since it's so wild and unconstrained for a "masterpiece," so uncomfortably exhibitionist. I'd love to know what a typical moviegoer thought while walking out of that one in 1958. Jeanne Dielman, funnily enough, seems like a safer choice in many respects.

There isn't a movie in this 20 that I outright dislike (though I still haven't and probably never will see Seven Samurai)

Top 5:

Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman, 1975)
Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001)
Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (F.W. Murnau, 1927)
La Règle du jeu (Jean Renoir, 1939)
Close-Up (Abbas Kiarostami, 1989)

Boring antiquated vote for The Godfather. I think I've seen all except for Meshes of the Afternoon (though a couple go so far back I essentially haven't seen them either).

Meshes of the Afternoon is only like 15 mins long and you can see it on YouTube, HIGHLY recommend.

This is a fairly impossible poll. Guess I'll go with Renoir?

I'm between Renoir, Murnau, Ozu, and Akerman. It's down to what I'd watch right now.

Renoir, followed by Ozu or Kurosawa

Seven Samurai, dare I say, drags a little. It bores me slightly like Ozu, Dielman, Beau Travail, etc. don't.

Citizen Kane is like the Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles of movies

hahaha.

criterion channel had a fun meshes/mulholland dr double feature a while ago, that’s my pick. but these are some really good movies

I've seen maybe half of these, of the ones I've seen I would still vote for Kane.

Must I?

I also have a Seven Samurai problem, but maybe I should just rewatch.

It’s not untrue that parts of it drag…but then there are all the good parts!

It’s so famous and the first time I saw it was under some weird circumstances that I am only now recalling- a bunch of clever high school students mocking the translated dialogue- so I got off to a bad start somehow I’ve never found a way in, although this hasn’t been a problem with lots of other films. But now that I think of it the initial problem in those cases was internal and not external. I like a lot of other Kurosawas better, since I went in knowing less.

I saw High and Low last month for the third time, a little stoned: exquisitely edited and paced. There are a half dozen Kurosawa I might replace SS with.

I don't fuck with the final battle, though.

I love Seven Samurai but I agree it's a bit of a trek. I'd take Yojimbo and Ran over it, at a minimum. But I get why it's the Classic.

I actually like or love most other Kurosawas I’ve seen, and rate Yojimbo, Ran, Rashoman and especially High and Low very highly, so it’s not a director problem

What's stopping you from watching it?

It's a big time investment to first watch The One Samurai, The Two Samurai...

Persona and Meshes are the ones on this list that speak to me most strongly, and I voted for the former. Most of the others aren't even my favourites by those directors (though Apocalypse Now and In the Mood for Love, and maybe Beau Travail are). Close-Up in fact I would rank ninth or tenth on the list of ten Kiarostami I have seen, I don't get the appeal.

I'd rank Shame over Persona, but, like Eric said, I get why the latter's here.

I might too, but Passion of Anna is my Bergman of choice.

Best parts of Seven Samurai: the close-ups of the scroll as the samurai keep a running count of the bandits they have killed
Worst parts: Mifune sputtering and gesticulating

If you can't deal with Mifune's performance style, Kurosawa will never be for you. I don't mean that disparagingly: it's like dealing with the hijinks in the third act of The Rules of the Game.

I was proud of my students last semester who chose Rashomon for a paper topic; most of them realized he was working in a stylized universe of his own.

2001 is a film that I feel like I still haven't seen properly, and it might be too late at this point. I feel like I'd need to forget everything about it.

These suck:

2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001)
Man with a Movie Camera (Dziga Vertov,1929)

Voted Dielman but resigned to 2001 winning.

There isn't a movie in this 20 that I outright dislike (though I still haven't and probably never will see Seven Samurai)

― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Why not?

Lol @ ppl denigrating Seven Samurai like Apocalypse Now isn't in this poll!

lol

He might think they're OK to great in their own ways.

2001's the only one I'm get-behind-me-Satan about.

I've seen all but Close-Up, which I will watch at some point despite being underwhelmed by almost every Kiarostami I've seen. I think he's not for me.

Of the rest, a handful are legit personal faves — Regle du Jeu, Mullholland Drive, Jeanne Dielman (which I can say now that I've finally seen it), Singin' in the Rain, Persona, In the Mood for Love (though not my favorite Wong), Meshes, Tokyo Story. The rest I like or admire to varying degrees, I don't begrudge them their canonicity. Although I haven't seen Man With a Movie Camera since a film studies class in college and have never been tempted to revisit it, so I don't really know how I feel about it. But I know it's IMPORTANT.

To the question of why I’ve never seen Seven Samurai, the answer is I don’t want to

It's a big time investment to first watch _The One Samurai_, _The Two Samurai_...

Worst parts: Mifune sputtering and gesticulating

nonsense

In case anyone was curious to see how this shook out in the all-time ballot poll: ILX All-Time Film and Morbsies Poll: RESULTS Thread for ILX's Favorite Movies, Films, Cinema, Flicks & Moving Pictures

I find in Seven Samurai the same kind of cinematic exuberance that’s in Citizen Kane—it’s just so expressive and fun. And yes the final battle is wonderful.

i quote/paraphrase man with a movie camera all the time lol, to absolutely no use or recognition: [X] WITHOUT INTERTITLES. [X] WITHOUT A SCENARIO. [X]... WITHOUT THE AID OF THEATER. i do find it v moving tbh, tho can understand distaste for its state-sponsored promethian brassiness.

my lynch opinions are not v useful at this point but m-dr is prob my least fave of his; i love p much everything in it, somewhere else.

voted renoir.

At the very least I like all of these, and love most of them. I always treat these polls as "favorite" rather than "best," so voted Lynch.

To the question of why I’ve never seen Seven Samurai, the answer is I don’t want to

― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Weird...but ok...

At the very least I like all of these, and love most of them. I always treat these polls as "favorite" rather than "best," so voted Lynch.

I'm between Renoir, Murnau, Ozu, and Akerman. It's down to what I'd watch right now.

Also love Lynch forever, but I still don’t grasp the anointment of MD above all. It’s about Hollywood. I’ll tuck that into my prior “films about film” complaint. Entirely too interesting mode for a certain sect.

Vertigo is quite far from being my favorite Hitch joint.

I’m with Morbs in rating Vertigo at or near the top, maybe just behind Rear Window and Notorious

Kane might be the only one here I don’t regard as being one if its director’s best, along with Apocalypse

I’m with Morbs in rating _Vertigo_ at or near the top, maybe just behind _Rear Window_ and _Notorious_

If you can't deal with Mifune's performance style, Kurosawa will never be for you.

He's a great actor who's so much more tolerable when he keeps the lid on, like in High and Low and The Bad Sleep Well.

those are two of his best roles, but I also like the more unrestrained performances in the samurai/ronin films (Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Sanjuro)

_If you can't deal with Mifune's performance style, Kurosawa will never be for you._


He's a great actor who's so much more tolerable when he keeps the lid on, like in _High and Low_ and _The Bad Sleep Well_.

Didn’t really need to quote, sorry.

I love that after all the times I've said I very much enjoy The Godfather you still think I hate it, clem

Ozu does the quiet rebellion thing brilliantly

I have made sure that some of you will be aghast when The Godfather's one vote places it above films you love.

― clemenza, Thursday, 19 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Got to hand this one to you.

Not that you hate it, Eric, or even that you don't like it; it was that many people (I didn't even necessarily indicate you...) will hate seeing its one vote place it above films they like much more that won't get a vote.

Anyway, just a joke.

That's true; I do hate seeing movies I love get zero votes, but those are the règle du jeu

Be strong, Mr. Eric! People are watching.

Remind me to tell you about the time I looked into the heart of a cannoli

As if The Godfather will get one vote. If only!

I've been doing my darndest to direct the reactionary votes toward Seven Samurai this whole time evillaugh.gif

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

lol -- see, clem? You weren't alone!

Who were the secret 2001 voters?

An even spread, though Murnau deservedThe Searchers' two votes.

yes, Sunrise deserved more love, but I like that all the rest got votes

The number that surprises me the most--shocks me almost--is 9 for Persona. Nothing to do with the film, which I love, but beforehand I was going to predict which five films I thought most likely to get zero, and that was going to be one of them. People just rarely talk about it in the context of these lists.

2 for Vertigo is a surprise given its Morbsies placement

Actually, that's just as or maybe even more surprising.

An even spread, though Murnau deservedThe Searchers' two votes.

otm, it's really stunningly beautiful top to bottom iirc

Being the only film to get zero votes is special in its own way!

Unless I’m missing something, that’s a grand total of 1 vote for silent (or thereabouts) cinema?

At least this poll kept Regle in the top 10

Man With a Movie Camera is silent, unless you see it with the Shuffle Demons providing an improvised soundtrack.

I knew I was overlooking something

murnau was robbed

2002: pop critics are stupid rockists that can barely put a sentence together. ILX is where it's at.
2022: ILX doesn't get a ballot for the S&S poll. Let's keep it that way.

Seriously though, seeing Renoir at 2nd place and then the discussion was really great. I should rewatch Regle and get to French CanCan

2002: pop critics are stupid rockists that can barely put a sentence together. ILX is where it's at.
2022: ILX doesn't get a ballot for the S&S poll. Let's keep it that way.
2001: Wins yet again

Wow. I voted for either Cleo or Persona (can't remember which) but both Sunrise and Meshes of the Afternoon deserved better than this.

Michael Jeck’s commentary for Seven Samurai on the Criterion Channel is rather dry but super well observed and cool.

Sight and Sound 2022 Round 2: 21-40

btw when did Close-Up become the canonical Kiarostami but not Through the Olive Trees, A Taste of Cherry, Certified Copy, etc., all of which I prefer? (Close-Up is fine ftr).

Close-Up was also the only Kiarostami in the top 100 in 2002 (#68) and 2012 (#43).

My first watch was in 2012, yeah.

seemed like every public library in the county had a copy of A Taste of Cherry.

Same way Tokyo Story became the default Ozu … who the hell knows? (I love Close-Up, and it’s still maybe my #4 or #5 AK overall.)

TS became the default Ozu, I suspect, because it was easily available. Every Blockbuster I visited in the '90s had a VHS copy. Not the case with Close-Up, I don't think.

the meta quality of it, as a docufiction film that kind of becomes a documentary, makes it stand out among his other great films to me

Oh, I know: we're suckers for films about films. But this is Kiarostami's fascination.

That he inserted himself into the middle of the film and changed the course of events makes it unlike any other film I think

Tokyo Story became the default Ozu because it references neither a season nor a time of day and as such is easier not to get mixed up with a different Ozus.

Tokyo Story's '92 placement (surprise top 3) fed into its availability in the ensuing decade(s) ... I agree with Dan S that Close-Up is perhaps the slipperiest of Kiarostami's meta experiments, which is also to account for it getting pushed to the top.

(Also, '22 seemed to take a lot of cues from '12 in terms of what new masters' "default" picks would be)

Come by!

https://com.miami.edu/event/the-sight-sound-top-ten-jeanne-dielman/

I wish I was in Miami instead of cold and drizzly New Jersey. Speaking of how certain films seem to get selected as the representative for a director who often made many films in a similar style, of the 5 Wong Kar Wai films I’ve seen, In the Mood for Love is the one that made the least impression on me. But I get that it’s kind of the most grown-up and has the best production values.

I usually don’t let the weather get to me, but the cold drizzle this evening and stepping over or walking through the resultant puddles was totally a bummer.

The Godfather is on tonight on film 4 uk (II tomorrow, III on friday, repeated next week). making it about a dozen of the S&S top 100 that've been on free-to-air tv since mid-december.

(and Parasite is on again next week)

I've been watching the shortest movies on the list that i haven't seen before. Partie de campagne, The house is black, black girl, several under 90 minutes. Gotta build up to edward yang, bela tarr, those endless documentaries...

Pyaasa is leaving Criterion channel this month so I'll try to watch that longer one.

Oh! Need to watch all those Guru Dutts! Meaning I need to, maybe somebody else needs to as well.

"...of the 5 Wong Kar Wai films I’ve seen, In the Mood for Love is the one that made the least impression on me"

re: In the Mood for Love, the characters repeatedly meet in a cramped 1960s Hong Kong apartment building (to a couple of Spanish language Nat King Cole songs on the soundtrack). She is always wearing different beautiful cheongsams. They get to know each other and eventually role-play the adultery they think represents the lives of their spouses. They try to imagine confronting their spouses and can’t. They yearn for the same connection with each other and it becomes very palpable for them, but then it is gone. The events are told in short-hand

In addition to the innovative filming techniques which I’ve mentioned in other threads and which go to the heart of the story - presaging or echoing of certain moments, replaying of scenes with different perspectives, use of different frame rates, overcranking, step-printing, different exposures - it is a heartbreaking story of missed connections and lost love

also how most scenes are short but some are extended

I can’t claim to have noticed the innovative techniques. Not sure if it would’ve changed my impression, which is that the film was less entertaining than Chungking Express, Days of Being Wild, Happy Together or Fallen Angels.

I haven’t seen it since it was in theaters but Dan’s analysis seems to me otm. Will hopefully find some time in my busy schedule to rewatch soon/pvmic