And Then You Get Guiltier: The Paul Schrader Poll

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Just finished Hardcore, which gets a chapter in the Tarantino book. Assumed there'd be a poll thread to post on; surprisingly no, so may as well put one up. He must be close to retirement. He made a bit of news recently with his sour reaction to the latest [i]Sight & Sound[i] poll. I've seen slightly more than half of these.

(Couldn't think of an especially memorable line from my favourite Schrader film, so the title is taken from a quote: "I was raised Dutch Calvinist, which means you are born into a sea of guilt and then you get guiltier.")

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters (1985) 8
First Reformed (2017) 7
Blue Collar (1978) 3
Affliction (1997) 3
Light Sleeper (1992) 3
Light of Day (1987) 2
The Card Counter (2021) 1
Dog Eat Dog (2016) 1
Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist (2005) 1
Auto Focus (2002) 1
American Gigolo (1980) 1
Touch (1997) 0
Patty Hearst (1988) 0
Hardcore (1979) 0
The Comfort of Strangers (1990) 0
Dying of the Light (2014) 0
The Canyons (2013) 0
Adam Resurrected (2008) 0
The Walker (2007) 0
Cat People (1982) 0
Witch Hunt (1994) 0
Forever Mine (1999) 0
Master Gardener (2022) 0


clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:07 (one year ago) link

First Reformed

Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:19 (one year ago) link

What I originally came to post...Hardcore's a weird period piece. I watched it on an old home-taped VHS, of all things, so I'm sure it at least looks better than what I was seeing. (Michael Chapman was the cinematographer.) George C. Scott is almost a decade removed from his peak; while he seems like a logical choice for the father, he lapses into histrionics a few times, though probably not as often as I was braced for (he's a devout religious guy). Peter Boyle is basically reprising Wizard from Taxi Driver; he just kind of wanders in and out. It's not quite as lurid as Star 80 or Cruising, but I tend to think of all three together (and maybe Looking for Mr. Goodbar from slightly earlier). As messy as it is, I'd still rather watch it than the other Searchers remake from the same era, the billion-dollar-franchise one.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:20 (one year ago) link

(xpost) Anything over 15 votes, and I'm pretty sure that'll win. Affliction easily for me.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:22 (one year ago) link

Mishima Mishima Mishima Mishima Mishima Mishima

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:29 (one year ago) link

The Comfort of Strangers scarred me for life

Patty Hearst my favourite closing line

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:31 (one year ago) link

Oddly enough, looking at that list, Affliction is the only thing I've seen from the entire 1988-2016 run. Or maybe not that odd, since Light Sleeper and Auto Focus are the only other two from that batch that I remember even hearing about when they were new (The Canyons sounds familiar, but I don't know anything about it; I stopped paying attention to Exorcist as a franchise well before 2005). Most of the others I've saw too long ago to have much perspective on, though I did quite like Blue Collar when I finally watched it a while back. I'm pretty sure that when I first saw Hardcore sometime in my 20s I would have described Scott's performance as "campy," though I suspect I might take a more nuanced view were I to watch it again now.

Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:34 (one year ago) link

Definitely veers into camp a couple of times. Blue Collar's very good; have to watch Patty Hearst again, which I liked off of a computer and I can now play on the big-screen.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:37 (one year ago) link

Tom Scharpling occasionally makes mocking reference to "Turn it offfff!" on his podcast(s).

Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:39 (one year ago) link

(On a related note, Guerrilla: The Taking of Patty Hearst is a really good documentary.)

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:43 (one year ago) link

I like Schrader's movie (not a typo) a lot. I've seen a dozen of these, and I own Blue Collar, Mishima, Hardcore and Cat People. The Comfort of Strangers is underrated, Light Sleeper is great except for the songs which are godawful, and The Card Counter is overrated, I think (coasting on goodwill from First Reformed). I haven't seen First Reformed yet but it's in my Netflix queue.

but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:44 (one year ago) link

i haven’t seen a lot of his movies but i love American Gigolo

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:47 (one year ago) link

I guess I Love Film really has died as a board.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:48 (one year ago) link

Light Sleeper is genuinely one of my favorite movies, settles into a comfortable lethargic vibe which works for the insomniac lead character and I don’t mind the tunes, which are extremely in your face in that on-the-nose portentous way of awkward cinema but I think it works. The acting is exceptionally good, Susan Sarandon is amazing here and Dafoe is just as good in the non-flashy lead role. It’s the early ‘90s bad fashion drug movie as, yes, a Bresson homage, so it’s good comfort food in that respect.

omar little, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:53 (one year ago) link

one of the best movies to watch after 10 pm imo

omar little, Saturday, 14 January 2023 03:54 (one year ago) link

I felt like part of the critical enthusiasm for First Reformed (which I thought was pretty good) and The Card Counter (which I didn't like at all) had to do with his surprising endurance. I wouldn't have guessed early on that he'd be one of the last American guys from the '70s still active.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 04:24 (one year ago) link

The Canyons sounds familiar, but I don't know anything about it

It's his crowdfunded collab w/Bret Easton Ellis which made a lot of headlines for stunt-casting Lindsay Lohan against Porn bro James Deen.

Card Counter was really good (also brutal)

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 January 2023 04:52 (one year ago) link

I’m intrigued by the man. And yet have seen very few of these so far.

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 14 January 2023 04:58 (one year ago) link

Dog Eat Dog is almost impressively excruciating to watch.

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 14 January 2023 05:01 (one year ago) link

(Don’t watch it.)

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 14 January 2023 05:01 (one year ago) link

I’m intrigued by the man.

As a raconteur, he's probably right there with Scorsese and Bogdanovich.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 05:08 (one year ago) link

Schrader’s never made an uninteresting film but they’re always faulty in some way or another. Lack a certain momentum or something else. Boring answer, but First Reformed was the first time everything clicked together. I think that’s the jewel.

circa1916, Saturday, 14 January 2023 05:13 (one year ago) link

His eternal transgressive/transcendent, Christianity-damaged steez is entirely too in my wheelhouse and I have a lot of time for it even if it doesn’t always work.

circa1916, Saturday, 14 January 2023 05:29 (one year ago) link

Mishima isn't faulty in any way

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 05:40 (one year ago) link

Glad to give it another shot.

circa1916, Saturday, 14 January 2023 06:25 (one year ago) link

obsessive love for that movie aside i can't think of a flaw, tho i know there's some debate over the Roy Scheider voiceover and i think there are a few differences in the edit of different releases. but the sheer overwhelming lushness of it, the interlocking narratives, the stylized novels, Glass's best ever film score etc

ok i am obsessed but it's maybe my favourite movie full stop

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 07:27 (one year ago) link

I recall reading that Pryor was a huge arsehole on the set of Blue Collar and reduced Schrader to tears.

calzino, Saturday, 14 January 2023 10:49 (one year ago) link

I admire him because he includes head-scratching, tacky things in his films; he's incapable of being his beloved Ozu and Bresson.

David Thomson is obsessed with American Gigolo, though he's written well about it.

I'd keep:

Blue Collar
American Gigolo
Mishima
Light Sleeper
Affliction
First Reformed

omar OTM about Light Sleeper.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 January 2023 11:19 (one year ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1HqX_hsQ3M

"Pardon my French, Dad"

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 11:49 (one year ago) link

Noodle Vaague otm

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 14 January 2023 11:53 (one year ago) link

Voted for the Michael J. Fox movie.

Kim Kimberly, Saturday, 14 January 2023 16:19 (one year ago) link

But really could have picked any of a dozen of these.

Kim Kimberly, Saturday, 14 January 2023 16:22 (one year ago) link

Btw “Patty Hearst” is on Kanopy right now

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 14 January 2023 16:25 (one year ago) link

I was going to say how impossible it must be to see Witch Hunt, his 1994 TV movie for HBO--I found a $40 VHS on Amazon--but it's actually on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv079EnQYhk

Dennis Hopper, Eric Bogosian, Lypsinka, Angelo Badalamenti, "I Put a Spell on You"--I will make a point of watching this.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 January 2023 16:36 (one year ago) link

I've seen six, and I think Affliction is not only his best but the best he could possibly make. His investment seems total.

I've yet to hear Schrader (or any fans of the film) explain why ripping off Bergman and Bresson so clumsily in First Reformed is a virtue rather than a trashing of a story that didn't even need those crutches.

No-one's mentioned Adam Resurrected, but it was shockingly good for a film where Jeff Goldblum plays a Jew in a concentration camp who has to act as Nazi Commandant Willem Defoe's dog.

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 15 January 2023 23:06 (one year ago) link

Agree that Affliction really got at something that would be hard to top.

The Gate of Angels Laundromat (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 15 January 2023 23:22 (one year ago) link

What he said on S&S, for the record:

https://i.redd.it/9v5xnh90xi3a1.png

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Sunday, 15 January 2023 23:31 (one year ago) link

These seem to be the cornerstones:

Blue Collar (1978)
Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters (1985)
Light Sleeper (1992)
First Reformed (2017)

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Sunday, 15 January 2023 23:32 (one year ago) link

I liked Affliction a lot the first time I saw it; I've seen it a few times since, and now view it as a perfect film--think I had it on my favorite-ever list for the ILX poll a couple of years ago.

Haven't read the novel, but my sense is that Schrader stayed close to the material, and didn't feel he had to turn it into a Film by Paul Schrader. Nolte is as great as he's ever been, same for Sissy Spacek. There was a thread where a couple of people said they didn't buy James Coburn; I think he's terrifying, and lives up to what Wade/Nolte's ex-wife says about Wade's mother at her funeral: "You never know how much women like that suffer. It's like they live their lives with the sound turned off, and then they're gone."

The end of the film makes me think of The Conversation, the way we've been seeing everything 100% subjectively through Wade's eyes, and then the rug is pulled out from under you. Except we're clear on Harry's misreading at the end of The Conversation; Affliction is more ambiguous, and even Rolfe/Dafoe seems unsure of the truth.

clemenza, Sunday, 15 January 2023 23:52 (one year ago) link

Coburn's terrifying

The friend with whom I saw the film liked to quote Coburn's "I'm MADE of love!!" as an ominous aside.

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 16 January 2023 00:44 (one year ago) link

Coburn is indeed terrifying, maybe one of the most terrifying characters since Oliver Reed’s Bill Sikes in Oliver!

The Gate of Angels Laundromat (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 16 January 2023 00:52 (one year ago) link

Watching it now (it's free on Amazon, with commercials for Amazon shows) and yeah, I don't know how anyone could read Coburn as anything but terrifying.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 16 January 2023 01:14 (one year ago) link

I've only seen five of these, of which I like Blue Collar best. Also like Light Sleeper and Affliction, and I have a nostalgic fondness for Light of Day but haven't seen it since it came out and my guess is it's not that good. Did NOT like First Reformed, it all felt too in-your-face to me, I kind of didn't buy it. (Didn't help that I couldn't help comparing it to Winter Light, which I love.) Schrader has often seemed offputting to me, his macho doomed-artist worldview. But he's written things I love, including some of his own movies, so I don't write him off. I just don't feel drawn to see a lot of his movies.

First Reformed all but plagiarizes Winter Light, along with Ordet and Wise Blood and of course Paul's own movies (not the first or last time). Paul gets away with it though because those movies aren't widely seen anymore, and people are more focused on his Facebook posts.

Chris L, Monday, 16 January 2023 02:25 (one year ago) link

Tom Scharpling occasionally makes mocking reference to "Turn it offfff!" on his podcast(s).

As did the MST3K gang, many times.

Chris L, Monday, 16 January 2023 02:29 (one year ago) link

Most of my favorite directors make the same movie over and over. Walter Hill, John Carpenter, Michael Mann, Schrader...

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 16 January 2023 02:29 (one year ago) link

I personally think Paul is more egregious about it. I can't see him do the Pickpocket ending 3 times and go "Schrader tha God" or whatever.

Chris L, Monday, 16 January 2023 02:33 (one year ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Friday, 20 January 2023 00:01 (one year ago) link

Even though I watched Affliction very recently and was amazed by it, I voted for Mishima.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 20 January 2023 00:24 (one year ago) link

I watched Witch Hunt, which I linked to above. (Being a TV film, I didn't realize it would have restricted content.)

Not terrible, but hard to figure out what the appeal was to Schrader (besides getting paid well by HBO, I assume). I think he was hoping for something along the lines of Wild Palms, and with Hopper and Angelo Badalamenti involved, he may also have been under the spell of Lynch.

clemenza, Friday, 20 January 2023 19:10 (one year ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Saturday, 21 January 2023 00:01 (one year ago) link

fuck me it's a rare treat when the ilxor voting fraternity get something right

Kieth Encounter (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 January 2023 00:10 (one year ago) link

Narrowly, in this case.

Chris L, Saturday, 21 January 2023 00:24 (one year ago) link

Auto Focus is a surprising vote for an interesting film.

clemenza, Saturday, 21 January 2023 03:12 (one year ago) link

The Comfort of Strangers should have gotten some of First Reformed's votes, even though I think a logistical flaw of the movie is that Rupert Everett should be able to thrash Walken at any time.

Chris L, Saturday, 21 January 2023 04:33 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

Paul Schrader 28m
As was the case with First Reformed and Card Counter, it has been suggested that I step away from Facebook postings until the May 19th release of The Master Gardener. So I will.

I love that he always complies.

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Friday, 31 March 2023 20:09 (one year ago) link

Was it suggested that he do so with the release of those earlier films?

niall horanburger (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 March 2023 20:15 (one year ago) link

I remember the same announcement with Card Counter at least yeah.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 31 March 2023 20:17 (one year ago) link

i need somebody to give me sound advice like that for political threads on ilx!!!

budo jeru, Saturday, 1 April 2023 00:54 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

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