Buffy, Season Seven Villain (SPOILERS: Do Not Read if You Are English)

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I'm sorry, but I lack both the time and the mental energy required to deal with a shape-shifting head-game villain for an entire season: I'm already wound up from the rush to be home by seven, and I know for a fact that I wouldn't be making exasperated noises and shouting "what the hell?" if I were watching the Gilmore Girls.

Discuss. If you don't wish to discuss this tell me about Lorelei Gilmore's pants this season: are they still way too tight, or have they decided to let her breathe a little?

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 18:24 (twenty-three years ago)

i always watch the plotlines that pit one lover against each other and say to myself, why cant she have both-cf dean and jess(or why cant dean and jess have each other w/o rory-fuck would that be hot)

anthony easton (anthony), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Nab, there's this invention called a "VCR"...

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I actually like the way Buffy manages to find new sources of angst and confusion over and over again...

Her latest kick is "I'm the Slayer"...

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I think "I'm the Slayer" has been her problem since mid-way through high school at the very least. If not for the whole Hellmouth-watching thing she'd have gone to school at Northwestern with me. (Damn you Hellmouth / distinction between fiction and reality. Actually I don't suspect Buffy and I would get on well on a personal level.)

It's been theorized that the shape-changing villain is umm sort of the opposite of whatever the Slayer is -- i.e., the other face of whatever force became that first Aboriginal Slayer.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, I would have been going to Northwestern with you if I hadn't auctioned my young BRANE off to the highest scholarship bidder.

B-b-but I want the spoilers, terrestrial British TV has only started Series Six. Willow hasn't gone EEEEVIL just yet. Anti-matter uberslayers sound like the shark's jumped, and what's a Gilmore Girl, a victim of Gary Gilmore?

suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:56 (twenty-three years ago)

like the evil jumper on quantum leap!?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

But Suzy, surely you'd have been there well before me? I mean, unless you've accomplished leagues more in your first post-graduate years than I have, like, umm, going back in time and such. I wish I'd auctioned off to the highest bidder, even if it would have meant living in Ann Arbor.

Season Six starts and ends well, but the mid-section is this long and awful Magic Anonymous thing for Willow, it's absolutely terrible. There is definitely a shark-jumping element to Season Seven, but Buffy sort of skirts this because it's more about itself than its plots -- the sheer weight of history and constant referencing of previous events can make rather slight or ridiculous events seem less shark-jumpy than they otherwise might be.

The Gilmore Girls = this. Cute woman + adorable clever girl + witty banter like Aaron Sorkin writing for Lifetime + as mentioned, very tight jeans.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 21:02 (twenty-three years ago)

But not in a prurient way, not at all! It's just that Lorelei often wears really tight jeans.

There need to be more shows that are strange flat-Earth fantasies about adorable women and girls living cute lives full of snappy banter.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 21:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, not *that* long before, I accomplished loads in immediate postgrad years due to less places to find success, I mean I had no choice but to move over here and write for the NME as no interweb, no US style mags, no 'alterna' marketplace; how old are you anyway?

suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 21:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Nabisco is ickle.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 22:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Tiny, fey and wee, he is.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 22:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I suffer under the decrepitude of a quarter-century!

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 22:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I hated most of last season, but this season is really good so far. I think the writing is much improved -- more emphasis on character, none of the metaphors taken too literally as the magic=drugs one was last year. I wish someone would take a pitchfork to Xander though (ironic, considering Xander seems like a Pitchfork reader heh heh).

The only thing I have to say about the villain is I have a feeling it might be related to the villain this season on Angel. Just a hunch...

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 22:52 (twenty-three years ago)

nitsuh, I don't see why this should take you that much energy. they made a lot of progress in the past week toward knowing what was going on. they could've dragged the mind game stuff out for months! I mean, like, the big bad gave it away to willow within the space of their conversation. which was kind of lame.

I'm with nicole - the writing seems a lot better. though I wasn't as down on the last season as some people seem to be.

Josh (Josh), Thursday, 21 November 2002 05:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Um, I think the S7 Big Bad is the First Evil from 'Amends' (S3)-- you know, the 'original' power based underground which appeared to Angel in the form of those he'd killed & tried to get him to drain Buffy and/or to commit suicide. Cf. its strategy with Willow & Spike. (And it had those minions in monks' robes, which may be the ones killing the proto-slayers & watchers?) So, biggest bad there is, lovely plot continuity, 'back to beginning', 'all about power', likely intertwined in some way with the origins of the slayer, etc.

lurker, Thursday, 21 November 2002 07:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This thread is now worth it! I remember that thing -- its dialogue is much improved since Season Three.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 21 November 2002 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

five months pass...
Um. Wow. Anyone watch tonight?

Melissa W (Melissa W), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The First Evil was Thom Yorke, then?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I really really hope that Kennedy dies painfully before this ends, but she probably won't.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

The last scene reminded me a lot of ilx.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

ARgh, I don't get UPN in this godforsaken town. Have to download it from Kazaa first. But um, this is the one where Buffy is voted off of the hellmouth and goes for a Spuddle.

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The last scene reminded me a lot of ilx.

Momus's bear being groped by a meaty man...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, they did talk about pirates tonight.

rosemary (rosemary), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Rhona is Jess.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Not enough people are talking about Spike and Andrew's Secret Bonding.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

They really should have made out at the end of that scene, they have more chemistry together than Spike and Buffy.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Buffy just doesn't have good chemistry with anyone, really. And you are completely right -- except the making out should come before Spike's "tell no one" threat.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

That should be the spinoff -- a gay crimefighting duo tooling around on a motorbike.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Like CHiPS!

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Unambiguously Gay Duo!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

They were doing Good Cop/Bad Cop and everything. It's perfect.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

It's too perfect! But then I am an Andrew-fan -- probably because he's like a gay male version of me.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I miss Jonathan, but luckily Andrew is cool in his own way without just being a Jonathan surrogate, especially this season.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh good, I liked Andrew.

Matt (Matt), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

A Jonathan and Andrew show would have been grebt as well. I'm still kind of annoyed he was killed, I'm tired of BTVS killing off the likable characters and leaving us with unlikeable shrews like Kennedy.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Pre-this season of Angel, my Dream Spinoff was "Lorne and Skip Paint the Town Red in Vegas." DAMMIT.

I'm convinced Kennedy is around partly as Willow's Scott Hope and partly so that there's someone who dies in the last episode whose name we remember.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus, Nicole, look at all the wishes you've already had granted:

- Geir Hongro on ILX
- someone taking pitchfork/thumb to Xander

And now you're sniping at Kennedy? (Sorry.)

When the DVDs come around they should so some sort of Seasons Six and Seven combo-pack that cuts the magic bits from Six and then tacks on an abridged just-the-facts shot through Seven.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Has the First attempted or even stated an intention to do anything this year other than kill slayers (and watchers)? If not, why is everyone fleeing Sunnydale? Have I missed something? (Erm, other than the second half of tonight's episode.)

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

It's gonna do some evil. And some eeeeeevil. And then it's gonna be all "I am SO the First." And then it will weep, for there are no more worlds to conquer.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"I am SO the First" = it's Dawn! Git her!!

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Caleb I think is proof that they've basically run out of ideas and makes me glad the show is ending. He's this lame combination of the Mayor and Warren (authority figure using cliched notions of goodness to hide evil + rampant misogyny) but without the hilarious whiplash reversals of the former (and no Faith daughter figure to show affection towards) or the subtlety and genuine real life creepiness of the latter. He's so divorced from their lives there's no reason to care about him, he's fills the narrative function of a brick wall; just something for them to blast through to end the season with a bang. Actually, it would've been waaaay cooler if they'd gone out with a wimper; unleashed entropy on Sunnydale and had the whole second half of the season steadily lose any continuity and end up like the last ep of S4 x 10 (or not, whatever). The only other explanation for Caleb I can think of is that they regret never making Riley (explicitly) eeeeevil and are now trying to fill that potato-shaped hole.

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Feel the wrath of the inner potato!

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

(Was it Nicole who divined that Riley was on a spiritual quest to reach the potato within?)

(I originally typed 'Caleb' thus proving by absent-mindedness that they are one and the same.)

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Caleb really just ... irritates me. It's like the "evil Southern preacher" was the only horror trope Joss&co hadn't used yet, but they didn't bother to do something new with it (like maybe not making him Southern). And I know that a) wardrobe as plenty of collars lying around, b) "collar" is an established visual shorthand for "clergyman," and c) Catholics aren't the only ones to wear collars, but does Joss even realize that a Southern preacher-type cut from Caleb's cloth would be really unlikely to be Catholic? All the stereotypes he's playing to are Protestant, and I don't think that's an intentional variation; I think it's just sloppiness.

And yeah, Faith making the Mayor more interesting is a good point -- I think the Mayor is still my favorite Big Bad.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Lorelai Gilmore doesn't wear tight jeans.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Her tops are hella tight though.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I alluded to Riley trying to channel his inner potato once on one of the other Buffy threads. We should revive them all but perhaps should wait for the finale. This season has sucked so hard that I am selling some of my Buffy action figures.

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Lorelei's hair is horrible this season. But she does wear nice Earl jeans.

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

The Mayor is my second fave after Spike&Dru, but Warren is the BB who really genuinely frightened me more than any other. There was something so... recognizable about his situation, about how he got fiercer and more dangerous as he got more pathetic. The whole geek trio was so well done, in both the writing and acting, and something that I think kind of gets passed over when people complain about S6. (If Andrew doesn't get any hot gay sexxx before the series ends, then the terrorists have already won < / oct 01 >.)

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh god is Lorelai's hair still looking like a Farah Fawcett do?

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I alluded to Riley trying to channel his inner potato once on one of the other Buffy threads.

Of course, sorry Carey; I loved that line!

This season has had a few really brilliant individual episodes but the overall arc is weak, especially compared to how totally rad Angel has been.

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

At the end of S3, they should have killed off Buffy and kept Faith. She's been the only interesting character this season.

I still watch just to see what happens, but I forget why until I watch some of the DVDs for S1-S3. Chemistry, wit, interesting plotlines. Is it just me, or do they accomplish/do about 50% less per episode these days?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

This season has sucked so hard that I am selling some of my Buffy action figures.

Carey if you have the one of Anya in a bunny suit I'm buying!!

chester (synkro), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Mary, Lorelei's jeans have been mega-tight in past, to the point where I was once watching an episode with my mom and when they shot her from behind there was

A LONG UNCOMFORTABLE SILENCE
ME: Those jeans are a little tight.
MY MOM: That's for sure.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Her shirts were tight back then, too, but I guess they've switched the emphasis a little. I hear Jess and Dean got in a fight! Over some puppyish Jess attempt to defile litle Rory! I would like to see a full-on Jess and Dean fight, except Dean could take Jess easy, so Jess would have to pull a knife or something...

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I would definitely buy the bunny anya too! The suckage of this season hasn't yet eradicated my lurve for the rest of series, characters, etc.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus, Nicole, look at all the wishes you've already had granted:
- Geir Hongro on ILX
- someone taking pitchfork/thumb to Xander

Well, see, the joke's on me because my wishes tend to be granted in the typical monkey's paw stylee. The only ones that tend to come true are the ones I'm not entirely serious about.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

My bunny Anya is staying with me, so I can cuddle her right through the blister pack. I'm getting rid of the ones I don't really care for (Cheer Cordy, Reg Cordy, Werewolf Oz, 1st season Buffy (which looks nothing like her) and Reg. Drusilla). This way I won't look like a total freak when I move and have to explain them to a roommate. I will still have 13 others to look like a freak with.

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I will buy the Werewolf Oz! In loving memory of Connor Smedley.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Sarah Michelle Geller was in my dream last night, scantily-clad. this is rare and very cool.

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
ok, so i got to the end, at last

the series wasnt as bad as people seemed to suggest, though i thought the very finale was a bit lame (compared to the other finales, at least)

spike doing the laser chest thing worked well, that fitted in, but why were the ubervamps so easy to kill off, or even fend off? just because the potentials had become slayers? but look at the trouble buffy had with the first ubervamp. now she had that scythe thing, so it was ok that she could kill them, but the potentials were using the very same weapons that were bouncing off the ubervamp earlier in the season, and they were popping them like balloons!

buffy seemed to have her arms folded for about 60% of this series.

i dont think caleb was that bad as a character, not as bad as others have suggested anyway

as many have said, xander had become pointless, as andrew had taken over his role. andrews rise to prominence was handled well, as in S6 he seemed the weakest character of the geek trio. xander had become progressively more scantimonious and irritating over the previous few seasons, so it was good that andrew got more of a role in his place

i wonder if it was just one series too far though, even though it was enjoyable, it just felt like one too far (even 6 felt like this a tiny bit)

yes, the potentials were terrible, no wonder no one has a good word to say about them. who even can remember their names?

i didnt think it made sense, when they did the choosing faith over buffy thing, it seemed too sudden

it also didnt make sense why caleb didnt finish buffy off when he had the chance. did they need her to pull the scythe from the stone? in which case, why didnt he go at her as soon as she had pulled it out?

and, the seal was totally unguarded the whole time, why the convuluted rituals involved in opening it, when at the end, they just cut themselves a little to open it. why didnt caleb just kill someone and open the seal and let a million ubervamps out earlier on?

it just felt a little bit james bond, the way the first had a million chances to knock them all out but didnt. and the way that the ubervamps were so weak at the end. and if they were going to come out the hellmouth in the daytime, why not demolish the roof so that the sun would go straight onto them and vaporise them?

and now, presumably, all the women in the world are super strong, which might make a large difference in how the world is run!

the running along the buildings and jumping on the bus was cartoonish and stupid

i think, overall, the last series was fun, if maybe a step too far, but was let down by the weak finale

the 2nd hellmouth in cleveland was a nice touch though!

gareth (gareth), Sunday, 23 May 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Not all women, just the ones who were potential slayers.

Caught a rerun of the ep where Principal Wood tried to kill Spike with Giles help, that was pretty good.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 24 May 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, a year on and I couldn't even remember who caleb was while reading your post. disappointing ending. it does not sound like there will EVER be a film (theatrical or otherwise), too bad.

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 May 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, yes, i meant only the potentials would become slayers. i guess there arent enuogh of them to become obvious in general day to day life

gareth (gareth), Monday, 24 May 2004 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)


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