cultural conversations that never end

The gritty reboot thread being bumped reminded me that "grim and gritty is actually pretty lame" was already the default stance amongst more discerning comics fans in the 90's and yet here we still are.

"Indie is just Pop now" as a discussion (distinct from "indie act x have sold out to the pop crowd") is at least as old as Lana del Rey's debut, probably more?

"Hollywood blockbusters are soulless" has hung around long enough for those previously cast as the villains of this story (Spielberg, Lucas, Cameron, some time later Michael Bay) to now be cast as heroes from a bygone era of auteur filmmaking.

feel like we are due a new round of authenticity discourse any time soon.

also "where are all the protest songs!?" seems to pop up every decade.

“I don’t understand what the young people are saying so therefore they are bad”

"That's not a city"

Oh, I think I should have probably exempted generational conflicts from this thread, those have just always been around and always will be. What I'm more interested in is ones that *weren't* at some point part of the cultural conversation but showed up and never left.

xpost

Tow Law City (cherry blossom) at 3:30 4 Apr 23

"That's not a city"

"we're a republic, not a democracy"

So, who was the last universally acclaimed pop star ? Please take universally to mean literally everyone.

liberation vs. human nature

oh wait, that's a perennial one ... how to end capitalism at least has a beginning point

emperor's new clothes bullshit where people who like other things must be pretending

contrary to what people on twitter will tell you, watching 1960s latvian arthouse films or whatever doesn't make u a better, smarter or more interesting person. in fact, it usually just means you're extra annoying. watch whatever u like. the fast and the furious is perfectly fine

— the hype (@TheHyyyype) April 4, 2023

Isn't that just one of those social media engagement strategies of making up easy targets to dunk on?

whynotboth.gif

I don't hate the Fast & Furious movies or anything but there was def a time when it seemed like the entire internet was talking about them nonstop, ridiculous to posit them as some sort of terminally uncool smol bean alternative to Big Arthouse.

I can't recall if that noise was louder before the franchise shifted into a more epic heist format and away from the more niche car culture films of the first four, but yeah, I still see people patting themselves on the back for thinking these movies are stupid, and then go out and brag about whatever shitty offensive Oscar-bait crap they went to see instead.

"Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter is soooooo dumb, can't hold a candle to real movies like Forrest Gump or Crash"

am i just at the point in life, age-wise, where people liking the wrong things for the wrong reasons seems like a young person's concern ... as opposed to the steady stream of death of one's peers, when someone you know won't like anything anymore, wrong or right, because they're dead now

We all loved Chad, even though he loved the Fast & Furious

"if you like <film>, which had <actor> in it, you are complicit!"

i guess i could use it as a way to blunt the feelings ... "Chris B died? ... Well, I really shouldn't mourn him, he was too into that overrated Cardiacs band ..."

I actually had an old friend pass away earlier this year (not a close friend, I hadn't seen in years, but a friend nonetheless), and a former acquaintance of mine showed up on her profile, tagging her, so that her family can see it, and talked about one time my friend was mean to him online and how he was glad she couldn't hurt anybody anymore.

i think her crime amounted to complaining that an event he was hosting was too expensive.

"rot in hell, you said hen fap too much"

The chauvinism is telling too, how annoying & pretentious to watch something from some lol random country that isn’t even America xps

Any variation of “are you on Team Whizzer or Team Chips” if you are a human being over the age of sixteen is Extremely Fuck Off for me

So glad I have no idea what that means

you're lucky you don't, I saw the best minds of my generation consumed by whizzkid brainworms.

These guys 100%

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3C0AAOSwiI1eYU0l/s-l400.jpg

sorry for your losses neanderthal and sarah.

I'm lucky to not have lost an old friend but as I get older I'm less likely to see culture as a set of "teams" you're either with or against and (thankfully) getting better at all seeing stuff that I don't really like as not being for me, seems like a lot of work to hate stuff when it's easier than ever to find niche stuff I do like

am i just at the point in life, age-wise, where people liking the wrong things for the wrong reasons seems like a young person's concern ... as opposed to the steady stream of death of one's peers, when someone you know won't like anything anymore, wrong or right, because they're dead now

― sarahell, Tuesday, April 4, 2023 12:12 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is kinda where I’m at (but this thread is still fun, carry on)

The magnificence of Erik Estrada's hair and teeth should be an ongoing cultural conversation.

does this include stuff like "Is Die Hard a Christmas movie" and "Is it okay to put pineapple on pizza/ketchup on hot dogs?" because if so, those tedious topics seem to never go away.

"Dude, Where's My Car" is a Purim movie. A Pop-Tart is a calzone. The ocean is bouillabaise. Death is very sad, and it is coming for everyone. And yet still we embrace hope and empathy and kindness because what else is there?

culture as a set of "teams" you're either with or against

ugh otm, this is what drives me nuts.

liberation vs. human nature

"right here (human nature remix)" vs "don't walk away"

Lots of folks decry polarization and say they want to get away from the "teams" model.

But, sorry not sorry, I am not going to make common cause with racist sexist homopobe Trumpapaloozians just to pretend that we can all sing Kumbayah together. If you actively deny the humanity of my child or my friends I am not interested in hugging and learning with you, nope

oh yeah I agree with you that's not what I meant. I hope that was clear

I meant like fighting over whether Scorsese likes Marvel movies on Twitter

As a millennial I expect I will have to hear about Harry Potter for the rest of my life

"Indie is just Pop now" as a discussion (distinct from "indie act x have sold out to the pop crowd") is at least as old as Lana del Rey's debut, probably more?

Back to at least Juliana Hatfield and Liz Phair I would think?

And contemporary country is just 90's indie

I can't recall if that noise was louder before the franchise shifted into a more epic heist format and away from the more niche car culture films of the first four, but yeah, I still see people patting themselves on the back for thinking these movies are stupid, and then go out and brag about whatever shitty offensive Oscar-bait crap they went to see instead.

Oh wow yeah that's not my experience at all. When I see big mainstream stuff slagged off it's much more likely to be Marvel movies or Star Wars - Fast & Furious was always held up as this pure stoopid fun ideal that everyone falls over themselves to praise. The peak of this coincided with the peak baconing of The Rock as well iirc.

I remember the F&F movies (and their blockbuster status) being specifically called out as a social good because the cast was predominantly non-white.

tbf I also don't really interact with ppl who're into Oscar bait. highly doubt they're also into the international arthouse type stuff that that tweet was strawmanning.

oh yeah I agree with you that's not what I meant. I hope that was clear

me neither. i was speaking similarly of what ums meant (i.e. pop culture where homogenized views and narrative lenses are all anybody is interested in), and perhaps a few more nuanced issues that similarly minded people feel pressured to take a side on when there's room for variance.

definitely not, like, when it comes to far-right wing politics

Re: Fast and Furious, I think both groups exist!

Like I totally know people who are also into the series (or if not, don't care much about it). But there are definitely people that take a smug "lol only dumb people like this tack", to which I usually respond "akshually it's better than whatever tentpole franchise YOU like"

U also gotta remember I live in a state predominantly filled with racists tho for context

(me, I've seen all 9 and stoked for #10)

I've seen all of them, but the last couple have kinda sucked. They definitely peaked (IMO with the one set in Brazil where they were dragging a giant bank vault down the highway) and have been on a downhill slide ever since.

Cypher is bar none the worst character they brought into the series, complete waste of Theron, but I still liked most of the last few.

They're past prime but I like them for their ridiculousness, not least of going into space in a car.

I mean, where do you go after you drag a giant bank vault down the highway?

. . . hear me out . . . Fast and Furious . . . in spaaaaaaaace

Despicable male antiheroes and the “prestige” drama

tbf treesh framed that thread as being about a cultural phenomenon that's basically over

xp that's where I'm a viking tbrr w/u

xp right but it’s a rehash of a discourse that was quite thoroughly exhausted over the half-decade that partic phenomenon was wrapping up?

Not to say theres nothing to be gained from rehashing but belongs itt as basically an offshoot of grimdark backlash mentioned in OP

I couldn't get past the first two episodes but isn't that show Succession just an ensemble cast of despicable antiheroes or ... idk?

Never seen it but yeah it’s an eg of the phenomenon of fiction featuring characters who aren’t morally exemplary continuing to exist aiui

I feel like ppl experience Succession in a much different way - thinking rich kids are cool is much more taboo in '23 than thinking mobsters or unreconstructed trad males are cool when thosr shows premiered so while ppl might have some secret affection for the characters the discourse as I see it is mostly "it's a great soap!"and "come enjoy these horrible wankers being terrible to each other". Anyway there's a thread for this? :)

i guess i don't see too much difference between "horrible wankers being terrible to each other" and feeling empathy for a misunderstood sociopath ... as in I have trouble understanding people who are "too good" for the latter but who enjoy the former? If neither is appealing, then I definitely get that.

succession is a show about people who had their personalities utterly ruined by money and their shitty dad, i don’t “like” anyone on it but i weirdly care about them? fine line the show walks

Audiences are philistines with no taste, critics are out of touch snobs who look down on anything popular.

Feels like that one has died a bit with online.

i don’t “like” anyone on it but i weirdly care about them

I wish nothing but bad things on all of them.

critics are out of touch snobs

now that being 'a critic' has been democratized the diehard fanbase have assumed the mantle of pedantic snobbery

Isn't that like 50% of your posts?

i thought you were the one keeping a spreadsheet on that

Oh sorry *flicks spreadsheet open*

It's 99% of them

a lot of these problems are easily solved by not paying attention to the film industry

1. Art is 'fake' it's a scam/conspiracy aimed at rich people by unscrupulous, untalented 'artists'.

2. Art is 'fake' it's worthless and simply a tax dodge adjustment for unscrupulous rich people.

3. Art is 'fake' just look at that almost white painting, or that pile of house bricks, My 5-year-old could do that.

I used to bristle at "Diddy ruined hip-hop"/"Cash Money ruined hip-hop"/"Crunk ruined hip-hop"/"Snap ruined hip-hop"/"Skinny jeans music ruined hip-hop" conversations until Drake legitimately ruined hip-hop