Stanley Kubrick RE-poll

shining by yards

eyes wide shut by also yards

Eyes Wide Shut

Usually comes down to Barry Lyndon or EWS for me….

Crazy that a movie as iconic and memorable as Full Metal Jacket can feel like a weaker offering.

I remain as ever baffled by the love for Eyes Wide Shut

That run through the early '60s sure was impressive, eh.

I wasn't on ILX when the first one was done, but almost certainly would have voted for Paths of Glory. This time, Barry Lyndon, followed by Paths and The Killing. But I get something from all of them, except A Clockwork Orange (which I hate), Fear & Desire, and The Spy Who Loved Me.

2001

For me it’s Strangelove or The Killing, I guess.

someday I might watch Eyes Wide Shut a 2nd time

Those are rookie numbers…gotta get to around 10 before it really starts to blossom.

"and I think it's fair to say tastes have changed."

2001 will win again. There will be more votes for BL, that's all?

Spy Who Loved Me, no question. It as a shame he couldn't convince Nicholson to play Jaws.

2001 will win again. There will be more votes for BL, that's all?

Probably true, although EWS or The Shining may land in second (4th and 9th last time).

However many votes 2001 gets, add one for Morbs

It's definitely between Paths of Glory and BL for me, lost count how many times I've watched them, the former is sort of perfect. Also detest Clockwork Orange and don't feel any motivation to watch EWS. Love some Xenakis but not into airfix models and actors in ape costumes.

Patrick Magee in BL - what an incredible wardrobe and makeup job.

Of the handful I’ve seen, 2001 gets the vote.

A-tier

The Shining
Barry Lyndon
2001: A Space Odyssey

B-tier

Dr. Strangelove
A Clockwork Orange
Paths of Glory

C-tier

Lolita
Full Metal Jacket
Spartacus
Eyes Wide Shut

Haven't seen

Fear and Desire
Killer's Kiss
The Killing
The Spy Who Loved Me

Also, lol at my cut and paste error. I hope Bond beats them all.

Lewis Gilbert secretly Kubrick after a shave in a pair of novelty sunglasses

pretty sure i voted shining in the 1st one, no idea what to do this time

I've been trying to introduce my teenager to black and white films, which he strongly dislikes, but he likes heist movies so we watched The Killing recently (I had seen it several times previously.) He liked it, but we both agreed the scene with the wrestler comes off as corny. Timothy Carey is pretty over the top too. Fun movie though.

I love Carey in The Killing - and Kubrick plainly adored 'ripe' performers (as Calz notes, see also Patrick Magee, or Leonard Rossiter in Barry Lyndon, Aubrey Morris in Clockwork Orange, even Nicholson in The Shining - my vote, of course).

AI

2001 by default

I had 2001 at the top of my all-time ballot for a while there but I didn't love it as much on my latest rewatch. I'd have it below Barry Lyndon and EWS now. I really don't like Strangelove

strangelove is really bad im constantly baffled by people who think it's either good or funny tbh but ive learned to take them as sincere

I haven't seen it in years but my suspicion is that it is very much a product of its time and has aged badly for several explicit and implicit reasons

"Also, lol at my cut and paste error. I hope Bond beats them all."

is this an obscure joke about how he was secretly helping half-blind Claude Renoir with some cinematography lighting issues on the set of that Bond movie?

I like Strangelove, but it's impact on me was when I was young and living in that era before history ended. Some of the comedy material is great, but more Sterling Hayden than Sellers imo.

Calzone - that’s almost exactly right about the Bond film! I think the connection to Kubrick was Ken Adam

Lol at calzone

but more Sterling Hayden than Sellers imo

George C. Scott, Keenan Wynn, and Slim Pickens too. (Scott's my favourite.)

9 masterpieces out of 13 - pretty damn impressive.

xp
yeah George C. Scott is brilliant as well, love that actor.

It's no stretch to say that Selles is the least impressive of the major performers, or, rather, that once I see him Doing His Thing there's nowhere else for him or me to go.

*Sellers

Still like George C. Scott's performance here, despite all the stuff I read about his out-of-control behavior in various Ava Gardner books.

There are few Scott performances I don't relish.

yeah I get exactly what you mean about PS there, it's as predictable as watching a washing machine doing a cycle.

I kind of get that Peter Sellers's mugging might bother some and that Strangelove has some kind of Big Lebowski-level of quotability that can also be irksome, but I still don't care.

Peter Sellers does kind of bug me in Lolita though.

Does the movie even need him playing three characters?

Love some Xenakis but not into airfix models and actors in ape costumes.

You mean Ligeti, calz.

Peter Sellers does kind of bug me in Lolita though.

He's terrible in Lolita, ruins the film.

Peter Sellers does kind of bug me in Lolita though.

― Ansible Dave’s Killer Breadboard (James Redd and the Blecchs

See, I love him in Lolita! That's one of the rare successful transpositions of a literary character to the screen.

He's completely different from any concept I had of Clare Quilty. Frank Langella was much better.

Probably not. But I like the Mandrake interplay with Ripper and Bat Guano at least. Just thank your lucky stars he knew when he was licked and they had to get Slim Pickens to play Maj. Kong.
(xp)

self-clowning here shows how many times I've watched 2001!

fair enough james redd, it's still a million times better than any Nolan movie, just mentioning this because Kubrick sometimes get's the blame!

Pretty great that ol' Kubey is partially responsible for one of the most consequential songs in rap history

Yes-tier

2001: A Space Odyssey - perfect movie in every way
The Killing - amazing genre movie

No-tier

Dr. Strangelove - I don’t appreciate Sellers in this
A Clockwork Orange - not transgressive enough
The Shining - don’t like the King story
Barry Lyndon - don’t like Ryan O’Neal
Lolita - missed opportunity
Full Metal Jacket - first half outshines the second
Eyes Wide Shut - I like Tom Cruise but he’s miscast

Haven't seen

Fear and Desire
Killer's Kiss
The Spy Who Loved Me
Paths of Glory
Spartacus

It is strange to me that A Clockwork Orange is considered a classic while Myra Breckinridge is considered a dud. I watched both under circumstances of “not knowing their reputation” (that Orange was a classic, that Myra was considered “the worst”) and was ambivalent to the former and adored the latter

Myra Breckenridge is very clearly a better movie than A Clockwork Orange, yes

Glad we agree!

"don’t like Ryan O’Neal"

I'm not fond of him either, he's the worst in this movie in the young naive period of the character and loads of the other actors in this totally eclipse him, although his performance get's better towards the end when he's in the hollowed out, morally bankrupt period death period of the character.

The point of casting O’Neal is that he is a complete simp who falls backwards into a position of wealth and influence despite a total lack of merit or character. He then fails to use the opportunity for anything other than self gratification and pisses it away. The film clearly regards him as a chimp in a stately home, surrounded by the highest culture and oblivious to any of it.
“The failure of culture to civilise” is close to the top of the thematic list for any Kubrick film.

i. e. you are supposed to hate O’Neal in the same way that the film sneers at him.

I guess it’s weird how often K’s films actively loathe their protagonists, presumably another source of the “cold” reputation since we’re not used to that mode.

O'Neal is perfectly cast wtf

^^You have to actually see the movie to realize that.

Why would you want to do that?

you are supposed to hate O’Neal in the same way that the film sneers at him

Fair, that’s the same defense I use re Anna Paquin in Margaret

the film does not sneer at O'Neal. Kubrick did not consider Barry Lyndon a comedy.

Nonetheless my friend, it is, however unintentionally, very funny.

Just speculation, but I'm guessing O'Neal was intimidated working with Kubrick, a bit unsure of himself as an actor (his big success to that point was still Love Story), and that that added to his performance. Barry knows he's essentially a fraud.

didn't think of that, but it seems right to me

xxp thanks for sharing your wisdom, but I didn’t say it was a comedy, the film is a vicious satire. Which sneers at its protagonist in the process; Hordern’s voiceover is positively mocking at times. It’s very pretty though, in a way which also mocks the artforms of the time.

you are supposed to hate O’Neal in the same way that the film sneers at him

Fair, that’s the same defense I use re Anna Paquin in Margaret

interesting comparison. idk the narrator dunks on barry a few times and he is repeatedly shown to be a fool & in over his head but imho both films clearly have deep sympathy for their main characters? its weird to me that movies like Lyndon or Margaret show their main characters as flawed humans making poor choices, being shortsighted, selfish, sometimes cowardly, etc, and people take that as evidence that the filmmaker is inviting us to loathe & laugh at them.

Ditto Elizabeth Berkeley in Showgirls

Barry Lyndon is classified as a "classic adventure movie" on Kanopy--reminding me that Kubrick's original choice for the Chevalier was Charles Bronson.

https://t.co/O6jCB0HORZ pic.twitter.com/AMMNOtuQFo

— Jacob Oller (@JacobOller) September 5, 2023

Hmm.

Right, so parsed that wrong at first, thinking it was saying Mambo No.5 was a big culture war issue. Which, my first reaction was surprise that I hadn't heard about that, but not really surprise at the idea.

Which says a lot abaot society imo

That was my thought too. And, yeah, that is a totally plausible scenario circa 2023

Need to hear King’s thoughts on “It Wasn’t Me” post haste

Also, I suspect Orange is getting harshed on this thread a bit cos ppl are embarrassed at being into it as edgy youths. I do understand the implulse but imo it stands up better than most things I was into at 16

enjoyers of mambo no.5 welcoming ilxors eric h. and bananaman begins into the only fandom that counts:

https://the-take.com/images/uploads/screenprism/_constrain-1080w/178763.jpg

Ha!

We all mambo down here

Apparently the question prior to that one in the tweet was about "Rich Men North of Richmond," about which King only said: "I haven’t heard the song yet, but I’ve seen pictures of him. He’s got a beard and he’s got a cool guitar."

there's a definitive "my life before and after seeing 2001" - so that.

orange is p good, mid-pack, prison section fairly dull, non-mcdowell performances certainly a choice (one choice, by one guy), when i was an edgy teen i thought it was an act of criminal irresponsibility (the worst kind of edgy teen)

i don't know why i said mid-pack; it's still down there actually.

I finally watched The Killing and loved how tight and ugly it was. I've already mentally paired it with Pick-Up on South Street and I'm not entirely sure why as yet.

Also, there is a guy who goes in my local who is so clearly Timothy Carey's doppelganger I'm going to have to ask him if he has seen this film.

Michael Fassbinder was a pretty good robot David, but I feel like he would have been better as David Bowman, mostly because he has a good laconic teeth-grinding expression to wear for most of the movie. Frank Poole: for some reason I'm thinking John C. Reilly.

God, the scene where Timothy Carey tells off the parking lot attendant in THE KILLING is so brutal and heartbreaking

Wait the culture war part wasn’t about “Mambo No. 5”?

Re A Clockwork Orange, the book not the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-yk2el2b8k

rewatched The Killing and as much as I enjoyed the film it's hamstrung by one of my pet hates - the voiceover

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Suspicions more or less confirmed, held against the prior poll. Also, good job ILX

not sure what you mean about suspicions confirmed, or "held against the prior poll", but there were a lot of votes

my eyes wide shut-heads are once again the most correct

Glad Clockwork got nothing. The Killing and Paths of Glory are, I think, on the short-list of greatest American films of the '50s, but that's just the nature of click-polls that they'd sink to the bottom.

agreed, i grew up in a TCM household and rarely anything caught my attention - it wasn't until seeing films like those that i wanted to go back and revist the era.

I don’t think Paths or Glory or The Killing’s positions would necessarily be that much higher in a ballot-style poll, fwiw. The only sig change would probably be Strangelove moving up a spot or two

Agree on Paths of Glory; it seems to have fallen away over the years. But I think The Killing would finish ahead of Full Metal Jacket, and possibly even ahead of Strangelove in a weighted poll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8_tJ6rVPyM

Been reading Kubrick: An Odyssey and as a result have been watching and rewatching his catalog. I never saw Barry Lyndon until this week. It's a great movie, but I'm not clear on why anyone would rate it over a half dozen of his other films. Really enjoyed rewatching 2001, The Killing and Paths of Glory.

I still need to watch Eyes Wide Shut again, but my main takeaway is that he really didn't develop decent parts for women. His female characters are barely sketched out in any of his films save for Shelley Winters and Sue Lyon in Lolita.