Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

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As requested. WmC do you want to close the other thread?

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Monday, 16 October 2023 16:44 (one year ago) link

Yair Wallach, who is an Israeli academic at SOAS very much not sympathetic to Likud/Bibi, is a good source on twitter atm, but like all the content out there atm, proceed at your own risk.

He retweeted this video of a young woman from one of the kibbutzes (kibbutzim?) that was attacked earlier:

By far the most powerful Israeli response I have seen.

This 19 year old girl survived the horrific massacre in Kibbutz Be’eri.

This is her message to her fellow Israelis and to the world.

Watch the whole thing.pic.twitter.com/qSPKZX4pzg

— Benzi Sanders (@BenzionSanders) October 14, 2023

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Monday, 16 October 2023 16:47 (one year ago) link

Thanks, gyac.

hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 October 2023 16:48 (one year ago) link

Chotiner and Sari Bashi, the program director at Human Rights Watch:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-humanitarian-catastrophe-in-gaza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W43C8xhh5E

Sam & Emma interviewing Omar Shakir, Israel & Palestine Director at HRW this morning

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 16 October 2023 16:53 (one year ago) link

looks like David Dayen in there too

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 16 October 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link

Yes, but trying to ask a question of the guest when Sam is in interview mode is a tall order

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:10 (one year ago) link

Why is our political class so invested in suppressing criticism of the apartheid regime? The answer is obvious. Western states support Israel in order to maintain their power at a crucial crossroads of world trade. Challenging that power is impermissible, because any attempt to hold Israel accountable for its crimes is – by definition – an attempt to hold our own states accountable for their involvement in them. Not only are our rulers prepared to let Israel level Gaza; they will even provide it with diplomatic cover and military supplies.

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/impending-genocide

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:11 (one year ago) link

As noted, I know numerous IRL people with Israeli flag avatars saying that they stand with Israel no matter what.

Plus I know IlXorz and others who almost uniformly condemn Israel as a brutal apartheid state that continues to use "but the Holocaust" as a laminated carte blanche for every atrocity the IDF wishes to commit. (There is a bit of a strawman in there but that's another topic for another time.)

I have met exactly zero people in between. I know it is not about me and/or my feelz. And I don't love "both sides"ing US politics either. The discourse is polarized and will remain so.

Absolutely no-one has talked about this situation at work, there's been no conversation about it at all, maybe people don't talk about it at work in the US either I don't know.

The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:21 (one year ago) link

No offence Tom but that was a post I was hoping could be left behind in the old thread

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:22 (one year ago) link

xp, thank you for that gyac, incredibly moving. I also recommend the NYTimes Daily from today on the situation on the ground in gaza from the perspective of people caught in it, difficult listening:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/podcasts/the-daily/gaza-israel.html

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link

(the ep labeled "Voices from Gaza")

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link

I’m just going to say that I am not in-between on this issue, but that should be obvious by now.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:31 (one year ago) link

xp I know people are all about bearing witness but I find this stuff incredibly upsetting.

I don’t think it was mentioned but Humza Yousuf who is Scotland’s first minister has family trapped in Gaza. I am linking this video as I find this content extremely upsetting.

Bernard's mother and family went out of their way to tell me that they would be praying for my family in Gaza. We hugged, we cried, and we promised to re-dedicate ourselves to peace and to be unequivocal; no innocent man, woman, or child should pay the price of another's actions. https://t.co/Vv1fz9gXqJ

— Humza Yousaf (@HumzaYousaf) October 13, 2023



I found the simple humanity of this gesture very moving, even as politicians south of the (Scottish) border were striving to outdo themselves in terms of performative cruelty.

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:35 (one year ago) link

Also, for context on the Kibbutz Be'eri post and those less familiar with the situation of the past 15-20 years (and again disclaimer I am hardly an expert myself): from Ariel Sharon onward, Israeli policy has been increasingly tilted toward a phony sort of "disengagement." In my mind, it traces back to the building of the West Bank wall although that could be simplistic take. But Netanyahu has turbo-charged this idea, basically that Israel could just kind of ignore the territories (at least other than soldiers stationed in the West Bank) rather than engage in any more ongoing negotiations, that the West Bank could continue to develop economically even without full agency or freedom, and that Gaza would be the kind of counterexample (i.e. life would be worse than in the West Bank) as long as Hamas was there. That terrorism could simply be prevented or minimized through "security," the settlements in the West Bank could continue quietly, and most Israelis would just live their lives and not worry.

Netanyahu is also notoriously corrupt and venal, and he has maintained power through a coalition with right-wing settler and religious parties, giving both more power (which also angers the more secular wings of Israeli politics as Israel gradually takes on additional trappings of theocracy, though it is hardly a full theocracy).

Netanyahu also favors his voters. The kibbutzes near Gaza tend actually to be center-liberal to left. They are not Netanyahu voters. There is a strong sense that Netanyahu "neglected" these areas as the girl expressed in her video, and that is also reflected in the sense that he neglected security near the Gaza border. I genuinely do not know whether Netanyahu "allowed" the attack but I seriously doubt it for reasons I stated in the prior thread. I think this was more hubris and stupidity and myopia.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 16 October 2023 17:39 (one year ago) link

"I don’t think it was mentioned but Humza Yousuf who is Scotland’s first minister has family trapped in Gaza. I am linking this video as I find this content extremely upsetting."

Mentioned this in the last Israel thread.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 16 October 2023 18:17 (one year ago) link

You can count on one hand the number of European leaders who have talked about Palestinians as human beings

xyzzzz__, Monday, 16 October 2023 18:18 (one year ago) link

And they’re all backpedaling now given protests and public pushback.

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Monday, 16 October 2023 18:19 (one year ago) link

The President of the University of Pennsylvania has released her 3rd or 4th public statement apologizing for letting a Palestinian writers conference take place last month

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 16 October 2023 18:25 (one year ago) link

The President of the University of Pennsylvania has released her 3rd or 4th public statement apologizing for letting a Palestinian writers conference take place last month

people are so fucking gross

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 16 October 2023 18:27 (one year ago) link

Public statements issued by university presidents are generally tailored to a narrow and specific segment of the public, mainly anyone with influence over university revenues or endowments. They are paid to know how to read that room.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 16 October 2023 18:33 (one year ago) link

Aimless, we know. No offense.

hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 October 2023 18:34 (one year ago) link

Well, yeah. When you've got Dick Wolf threatening your donations because you let Palestinians into a building named after him...

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 16 October 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link

a name like Dick Wolf must never be besmirched

symsymsym, Monday, 16 October 2023 18:53 (one year ago) link

Always guarantee the BBC will always be fucked.

The BBC admits that it misled the public about pro-Palestinian demonstrations in the UK. pic.twitter.com/oi4nVf5DN7

— Lowkey (@Lowkey0nline) October 16, 2023

xyzzzz__, Monday, 16 October 2023 19:55 (one year ago) link

i think about this poem by Palestinian poet Najwan Darwish all the time pic.twitter.com/jv5WOOjobb

— هستی hasti (@youarehasti) October 16, 2023

xyzzzz__, Monday, 16 October 2023 20:01 (one year ago) link

xp - That retraction was also poorly phrased and could be misleading.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 16 October 2023 20:01 (one year ago) link

This is @GhassanAbuSitt1, a surgeon who is currently saving the lives of Palestinians in a hospital in Gaza. He's just reported that counter terrorism police have showed up at his house in the UK and harrased his family.pic.twitter.com/GOvl5aQLHG https://t.co/bugmmZPAMM

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) October 16, 2023

xyzzzz__, Monday, 16 October 2023 20:03 (one year ago) link

That retraction was also poorly phrased and could be misleading.

glad i'm not the only one who thought this

no gap tree for old men (Noodle Vague), Monday, 16 October 2023 20:05 (one year ago) link

OTM

The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Monday, 16 October 2023 20:18 (one year ago) link

I know this is old news, but it still blows my mind that the range of Acceptable Opinions on Israel is narrower in the West than it is in Israel.

deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 16 October 2023 20:40 (one year ago) link

That Darwish poem is great. Notable that Armenians were just cleansed from Artsakh by Azerbaijan and absolutely no-one in the west cared.

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 16 October 2023 20:44 (one year ago) link

Yup. Armenia could be invaded in the next few weeks btw.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 16 October 2023 20:59 (one year ago) link

xxp two words: Social Media.

Nuanced discussions are often lacking in the echo chambers of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. The only place where I've seen nuanced discussions about the topic are on platforms that favor more nuanced discussion, such as ILX and (yes, believe it or not) Reddit.

I do wonder if the "outrage economy" of clickbait extremism online and the 24 hours news cycle will finally hit a limit of societal acceptability in western democracies, but I'm not holding my breath, they still make $$$

octobeard, Monday, 16 October 2023 21:03 (one year ago) link

"We called a pro-palestinian march pro-Hamas. We accept that this was a thing that we said". WTF.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 16 October 2023 21:05 (one year ago) link

Now here's the weather.

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 16 October 2023 21:12 (one year ago) link

True, I understand in theory how misinformation supposedly works. But I'm finding it extremely challenging to trust some of the news sources being cited and finding myself turning to reddit, and other news sources that I don't normally consult trying to see what areas of dispute exist over even just the factual reporting.

xp

felicity, Monday, 16 October 2023 21:24 (one year ago) link

Interestingly enough, a private forum I participate in is completely avoiding talking about this, and honestly it might be for the best.

octobeard, Monday, 16 October 2023 21:33 (one year ago) link

The ukpolitics sub is overall fanatically pro-occupation and pro-genocide, and they are gradually losing their shit as they observe the public becoming turned off by this stance. Also they are usually witheringly critical of the Tories but have suddenly become staunchly supportive of Sunak and Braverman.

glumdalclitch, Monday, 16 October 2023 21:35 (one year ago) link

Are you taking about Reddit or something

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 16 October 2023 22:22 (one year ago) link

I have met exactly zero people in between.

To the extent I've talked to people about this, almost everybody I know IRL is "in between" the two positions you describe.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 00:41 (one year ago) link

Reddit is a paragon of “nuanced discussion” now. We are truly fucked.

Actually was just thinking about this specific issue in non-Reddit terms which still definitely apply to Reddit. How this conflict is a godsend for the extreme right (and whatever apologists they may have claiming to be “leftist”). Because it so thoroughly divides actual leftists from liberals steeped in realpolitik or whatever they’re on.

recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 01:37 (one year ago) link

a name like Dick Wolf must never be besmirched

There's nothing decent to besmirch. The Law & Order "franchise" is a formulaic, sensationalist pile of shit. All 1,316 episodes of it.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 17 October 2023 01:50 (one year ago) link

Also pretty depressing how my social media feed was blissfully Ben Shapiro-free until various people decided his thick-headed, one-dimensional take on the Middle East was the voice of reason this past week.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 17 October 2023 01:52 (one year ago) link

xxp two words: Social Media.

Nuanced discussions are often lacking in the echo chambers of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. The only place where I've seen nuanced discussions about the topic are on platforms that favor more nuanced discussion, such as 4chan and (yes, believe it or not) Stormfront.

recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 02:01 (one year ago) link

We get it. You don't like Reddit.

felicity, Tuesday, 17 October 2023 02:28 (one year ago) link

I don’t like social media illiterates upholding a literal right wing extremist-captured disinformation service as their go-to for balanced discussion.

recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 02:33 (one year ago) link

lol what

Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 02:40 (one year ago) link

Lol hey i wasnt even posting here viborg

i'd meet u where u are, but that place really sucks (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 02:58 (one year ago) link

Yes, the famously extremist platform, reddit

Peach’s burner account (H.P), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 03:31 (one year ago) link

Extremely milquetoast maybe

Peach’s burner account (H.P), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 03:32 (one year ago) link

kind of amazing that hezbollah has agreed to vacate soldiers from a region of… their own country?

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 November 2024 19:08 (three weeks ago) link

I guess the agreement is technically with the Lebanese Army, which has been infiltrated by Hezbollah members

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 27 November 2024 19:16 (three weeks ago) link

well that’s even wilder

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 November 2024 19:25 (three weeks ago) link

sovereignty a fungible concept apparently

IDF saying nobody is allowed to go near their vacated positions inside lebanon

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 November 2024 19:26 (three weeks ago) link

Amal talking to the BBC.

A hiatus.

My analysis today on @BBCWorldatOne where I discuss the paradox of Hizbullah being weakened by Israel yet emerging even stronger and seemingly indestructible, while Israel failed to meet its strategic aims. I also talk about how this cessation of hostilities, unlike a cease-fire,… pic.twitter.com/bUR0JkbIzP

— Amal Saad (@amalsaad_lb) November 27, 2024

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 27 November 2024 22:39 (three weeks ago) link

Yea that’s what I kind of suspected - hezbollah in this area is not some kind of visible military force, it’s trained residents with guns, pickup trucks, and some pretty well hidden other equipment. no one is “vacating” they are just agreeing not to shoot at each other for a little while.

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 November 2024 23:25 (three weeks ago) link

Radical “woke” organisation, the UN, reminds us that today is International Day of Solidarity With the Palestinian People

https://www.un.org/en/observances/international-day-of-solidarity-with-the-palestinian-people

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Friday, 29 November 2024 14:59 (three weeks ago) link

18 hours ago, World Central Kitchen posted about an operating in Khan Younis, where they were assisting a local bakery in feeding people on a mass scale. Less than a day later, local sources are reporting that Israel has targeted the operation https://t.co/Nyk8TLxWmE

— edie (@ediemmill) November 30, 2024

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 30 November 2024 11:43 (three weeks ago) link

A lot is happening in Syria rn.

BREAKING: Syrian jihadists & their Turkish-backed allies reached the outskirts of the northern city of Aleppo after staging two car bomb attacks, as they pressed a major offensive against government troops, via @AFP.

— Aya Iskandarani (@Aya_Isk) November 29, 2024

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 30 November 2024 12:49 (three weeks ago) link

The killing goes on.

US-backed Israeli strikes killed ~200 on Saturday in northern Gaza — already the strip's most battered area

“This has become a daily occurrence & no one is held accountable" -health official

Meanwhile, aid groups have been forced to stop their work againhttps://t.co/A25HCDkzkx

— Akbar Shahid Ahmed (@AkbarSAhmed) December 1, 2024

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 1 December 2024 18:12 (three weeks ago) link

This is disgusting.

"Sedatives by the crate": How Israelis can help their pets deal with the anxiety of war / Moshe Giladhttps://t.co/HY5thS646p

— Haaretz.com (@haaretzcom) December 1, 2024

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 1 December 2024 20:46 (three weeks ago) link

both the article AND your reposting of it are monstrous and repulsive. keep yr eye on the ball

sparkling hebroic couplet (Hunt3r), Sunday, 1 December 2024 21:41 (three weeks ago) link

I couldn't care less for your opinion of my posting

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 1 December 2024 22:04 (three weeks ago) link

that seems like a self-contradicting statement

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Sunday, 1 December 2024 22:16 (three weeks ago) link

ceasefire ceased

Israel responds to Hezbollah rocket attack with airstrikes on south Lebanon

Israel has carried out a series of airstrikes in the Nabatieh district, south Lebanon, in response to Hezbollah rocket fire near a watchtower, the first time the group has attacked Israel since a ceasefire came into effect last week.

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 2 December 2024 21:08 (two weeks ago) link

"Quadcopters were emitting baby sounds, playing sounds of screaming women."

Palestinians in Gaza say Israel has been using small quadcopter drones, equipped with loudspeakers, to lure them out of their homes and then shoot them. #GazaCrimes pic.twitter.com/W4VytzyvdA

— Al Jazeera Investigations (@AJIunit) December 2, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 3 December 2024 08:27 (two weeks ago) link

I’m so saddened that Israel destroyed UNRWA’s Health clinic in Jabalia refugee camp today. It’s where I used to see a doctor since I was 8 years old.

— Mosab Abu Toha (@MosabAbuToha) December 2, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 3 December 2024 08:33 (two weeks ago) link

The occupation burned families in their tents again! No one got close enough to show them burning like we did when Shabaan and his family burned. We just heard their screams from afar.

They burn our hearts and they burn our children. If the world does not move, we will burn too. pic.twitter.com/kXCPLel5B5

— Nahed hajjaj (@nahed_hajjaj99) December 4, 2024

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 5 December 2024 15:17 (two weeks ago) link

Ethnic cleansing of Beit Lahiya, #NorthernGaza! pic.twitter.com/u09kj4dZZA

— Motasem A Dalloul (@AbujomaaGaza) December 5, 2024

xyzzzz__, Friday, 6 December 2024 08:46 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/amnesty-international-report-israel-genocide-1.7401842

The U.K.-based human rights group said it analyzed the overall pattern of Israel's conduct in Gaza between Oct. 7, 2023 and early July.

To establish intent, Amnesty said it reviewed over 100 statements by Israeli government and military officials and others since the start of the war that "dehumanized Palestinians, called for or justified genocidal acts or other crimes against them."

It also analyzed 15 airstrikes from the start of the war until April that killed at least 334 civilians, including 141 children, and wounded hundreds of other people. It said it found no evidence that any of the strikes were directed at military objectives.

It said one of the strikes destroyed the Abdelal family home in the southern city of Rafah on April 20, killing three generations of Palestinians, including 16 children, while they were sleeping.

Amnesty report accuses Israel of subjecting Palestinians to system of 'oppression and domination'
Trucks carrying aid into Gaza are being violently ransacked. Here's what we know
"Israel's military offensive has killed and seriously injured tens of thousands of Palestinians, including thousands of children, many of them in direct or indiscriminate attacks, often wiping out entire multi-generational families," the report said.

Amnesty said Israel has forcibly displaced 90 per cent of Gaza's population of roughly 2.2 million, "many of them multiple times, into ever-shrinking, ever-changing pockets of land that lacked basic infrastructure, forcing people to live in conditions that exposed them to a slow and calculated death."

symsymsym, Friday, 6 December 2024 15:46 (two weeks ago) link

A major massacre is taking place in northern Rafah right now—a new flour massacre.

Dozens of martyrs lie on the roads in northern Rafah after going to get flour.

All of this is happening in complete silence

— EzzatAshour𓂆 (@3zat9) December 8, 2024

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 8 December 2024 19:28 (two weeks ago) link

Israeli journalist confesses to killing.

As Palestinian journalists in Gaza have targets on their back & are executed by Israel, Jerusalem Post "journalist" @StarrJpost openly confesses to his part in Israel's genocide, murdering a young man in civilian clothes carrying food.

Absolutely horrific https://t.co/9IJSMemvs7 pic.twitter.com/3vcPy2dbSH

— Joseph Willits (@josephwillits) December 9, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 10 December 2024 09:24 (one week ago) link

Without Assad, Iran can't get weapons to Hezbollah

Iran's proxies are all on the back foot

And Israel is expanding its territory

That said, will Russia establish itself in Syria even further than it had before? Will Syria be part of the Ukraine negotiation?

Honestly very hard to keep up with all this

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 11 December 2024 12:01 (one week ago) link

Totally normal defensive measure.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, 11 December 2024 15:40 (one week ago) link

Honestly surprised it wasn’t before?

The Whimsical Muse (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 11 December 2024 15:53 (one week ago) link

My Brother Chef Mahmoud Almadhoun Died Because He Fed Gaza’s Starving Citizens
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/chef-mahmoud-almadhou-gaza-soup-kitchen/

rob, Thursday, 12 December 2024 15:32 (one week ago) link

And meanwhile, while some ilxors debate about whether Israel is committing genocide or not— it is, and I FP every instance of those denying it— 96% of Gaza's children believe death is imminent.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/11/death-feels-imminent-for-96-of-children-in-gaza-study-finds

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 12 December 2024 17:59 (one week ago) link

horrifying. The damage Israel is doing to the people of Gaza will never heal

symsymsym, Thursday, 12 December 2024 20:15 (one week ago) link

That is devastatingly bleak.

My only thought on the "genocide" terminological debate is that I'm open to the possibility the word is insufficient or not quite capacious enough to describe what is happening. And we need new language to describe the current and -- symsymsym otm -- future situation in Gaza, some term that would capture the immiseration and dehumanization caused by a staggeringly wide spectrum of targeted and random violence, starvation, continual mass displacement, total infrastructural demolition, deliberate and repeated attacks on schools and places of care, visiting literal nightmares on children, etc. It's the destruction of a way of living, of the capacity to live as human beings, a foreclosure of the future, existential murder.

Israel's use of the phrase "sterile defense zone" to describe their intentions in Syria was weirdly revealing, I thought, a bit like the perverse origin of the term "ethnic cleansing."

rob, Thursday, 12 December 2024 20:30 (one week ago) link

Yeah it’s soul-crushing, rob otm & that’s not even to say anything about the intolerable cruelty of the pre 7/10 status quo — there are extant terminologies and analogies that apply there too that we can nitpick into oblivion

Israel's use of the phrase "sterile defense zone" to describe their intentions

yeah what if they did the shocking thing of sending food aid or medicines to Syria, to develop goodwill with the new regime? Nah, let's just send fighter jets and clear up the 'temporary' buffer zone? Like the one from 1967, it's just temporary

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 12 December 2024 21:07 (one week ago) link

Israel plans to expand Golan settlements after fall of Assad
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6lgln128xo

Israel's government has approved a plan to encourage the expansion of settlements in the occupied Golan Heights.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the move was necessary because a "new front" had opened up on Israel's border with Syria after the fall of the Assad regime to an Islamist-led rebel alliance.

Netanyahu said he wanted to double the population of the Golan Heights, which Israel seized during the 1967 Six-Day War and is considered illegally occupied under international law.

weird how a "new front" can just open like that

rob, Sunday, 15 December 2024 19:28 (one week ago) link

It’s when reading stuff like this that the conversation on the other thread becomes particularly crazy-making to me. Genocide denialists still being spoken to politely, as if their opinions matter, when Israel seems to bomb hospitals and schools and burn people alive every day. Every day fresh horrors and yet the ridiculous debate about whether it’s okay to call Zionism a racist and fascist ideology continues.

My friend tells me today, after he left the Awida School in Beit Hanoun, which was bombed by IOF: "IOF entered the school after bombing it.
They took some young men, placed them in the schoolyard, poured gasoline over them, and burned them alive. Then they forced their families…

— Omar Hamad | عُـمَـرْ 𓂆 (@OmarHamadD) December 15, 2024

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Monday, 16 December 2024 03:41 (six days ago) link

Exactly. I preferred - and generally prefer - not to use the word zionism to criticise Israel's occupation and genocide, for obvious historical reasons but, that time has passed. If this is what zionism has led to, and it clearly has, then it utterly unsalvageable as an ideology, morally and politically. No amount of whataboutism about other ideologies and genocides and nations and racisms (or even "soviet propaganda") can affect that. Israel as currently constituted, and the basis on what it is constituted - apartheid, occupation of Palestinian land, extermination of Palestinians, an imperialist settler outpost and defensive bulwark for western interests - is also untenable. No amount of comparisons with genocides committed by other nations, historically or currently, makes any difference to that. No amount of discussion of Jewish support for Israel in western countries or antisemitism that Jews face can affect that either.

The only way to avoid reaching these conclusions if if 1) you believe this is a conventional war 2)the Palestinians deserve everything they get 3) you believe that Israel is special and can therefore do whatever it wants.

Western media shields its citizens from the fact that the rest of the world has come to the same conclusions about Israel and zionism as I mention above. I'm a Brit and have lived in London most of my life so anyone is free to disregard what I say on that basis, but it's only in recent years that I've questioned the received wisdom that I was raised with - Israel as a deserved homeland established in conditions of unanimity, "blame on both sides" since then etc, Israelis as "like us" and therefore to be supported unconditionally etc.

glumdalclitch, Monday, 16 December 2024 13:39 (six days ago) link

Israel has occupied more Syrian land in the last week than it did in the 1967 war.

— Ghassan Abu Sitta (@GhassanAbuSitt1) December 15, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 17 December 2024 22:50 (five days ago) link

Mohamed Baalusha was the reporter who discovered the tiny corpses of the newborn babies who Israel deliberately left to die alone and cold in their incubators inside a Gaza NICU almost a year ago. Now he’s been killed. This world keeps failing Palestinians. https://t.co/3hEwt6YgvP

— Nora Barrows-Friedman (@norabf) December 15, 2024

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 17 December 2024 23:03 (five days ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/fdYSmSf.jpeg

https://archive.is/QDhhv

mookieproof, Thursday, 19 December 2024 10:01 (three days ago) link

BREAKING via @omeisy: Local reports of a series of airstrikes in Sana'a and Hudaydah now in Yemen.

Reportedly, in Sana'a, major electricity stations were targeted and set ablaze - knocking main grid offlinepic.twitter.com/zzpCi6fb6x https://t.co/XczQ4djIbf

— Just Foreign Policy (@justfp) December 19, 2024

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 19 December 2024 11:13 (three days ago) link

Tom's and mookieproof's links are brutal. This is too: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/dec/18/jabaliya-refugee-camp-gaza-destruction-idf

one small conclusion to draw from all three is that reporting the "official" death count should come with a huge disclaimer that it's unquestionably a massive under count

rob, Thursday, 19 December 2024 14:24 (three days ago) link

yeah, the way the way so many outlets continue to print the “40,000” deaths figure is cause enough to be suspicious of anything those outlets print or say ever again. the 40,000 mark was passed before 2023 was finished, most likely, and it is simply negligence and anti-Palestinian racism that allows these outlets to get away with it.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 19 December 2024 16:08 (three days ago) link

Israel executes 80-year-old Halima Saleh
Hussein Abu Leil by shooting her in the chest and leg in Balata Refugee Camp, West Bank. Over the course of a year, Israel has killed at least 2,000 elderly Palestinians, many through direct executions. pic.twitter.com/b0pIZ7cX8A

— Ramy Abdu| رامي عبده (@RamAbdu) December 19, 2024

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 19 December 2024 16:40 (three days ago) link

i don't even know what to do about the story about israeli soldiers leaving newborns to die alone in the NICU, and then murdering the journalist who exposed the story in an airstrike.

it's horrific

z_tbd, Thursday, 19 December 2024 17:33 (three days ago) link

from the Ha'Aretz article:

A recently discharged Division 252 officer describes the arbitrary nature of this boundary: "For the division, the kill zone extends as far as a sniper can see." But the issue goes beyond geography. "We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists," he says. "The IDF spokesperson's announcements about casualty numbers have turned this into a competition between units. If Division 99 kills 150, the next unit aims for 200."

These accounts of indiscriminate killing and the routine classification of civilian casualties as terrorists emerged repeatedly in Haaretz's conversations with recent Gaza veterans.
"Calling ourselves the world's most moral army absolves soldiers who know exactly what we're doing," says a senior reserve commander who has recently returned from the Netzarim corridor. "It means ignoring that for over a year, we've operated in a lawless space where human life holds no value. Yes, we commanders and combatants are participating in the atrocity unfolding in Gaza. Now everyone must face this reality."

While this officer doesn't regret mobilizing after October 7 ("we went into a just war"), he insists the Israeli public deserves the full picture. "People need to know what this war really looks like, what serious acts some commanders and fighters are committing inside Gaza. They need to know the inhuman scenes we're witnessing."

symsymsym, Thursday, 19 December 2024 18:42 (three days ago) link

yeah, the way the way so many outlets continue to print the “40,000” deaths figure is cause enough to be suspicious of anything those outlets print or say ever again. the 40,000 mark was passed before 2023 was finished, most likely, and it is simply negligence and anti-Palestinian racism that allows these outlets to get away with it.

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, December 19, 2024 11:08 AM (five hours ago)

I can understand mainstream media outlets not wanting to estimate a number. But not even mentioning the fact of an undercount -- whether due to the uncounted or uncountable dead or due to the non-military violence of starvation, disease, etc -- is vile at this point. Especially since they all continue to ritualistically repeat the same phrasing in nearly every article, a repetition that has become obscene in what it leaves out (West Bank, Lebanon, Syria; other ways of quantifying genocide and civil destruction) and what it implicitly justifies or rationalizes (history began on Oct 7; Israel's violence must be contextualized and understood but Hamas's must not)

rob, Thursday, 19 December 2024 21:21 (three days ago) link

médecins sans frontières and human rights watch join amnesty international in concluding 'Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza'

In the north of the Strip in particular, the recent military offensive is a clear illustration of the brutal war the Israeli forces are waging on Gaza, and we are witnessing clear signs of ethnic cleansing as Palestinian life is being wiped off the area. Our firsthand observations of the medical and humanitarian catastrophe inflicted on Gaza are consistent with the descriptions provided by an increasing number of legal experts and organisations concluding that genocide is taking place in Gaza.

mookieproof, Thursday, 19 December 2024 21:33 (three days ago) link

When I was in Ankara two months ago I saw some real concern among AKP politicians that Israel could in the medium term threaten Turkish interests and even territorial integrity

— Bruno Maçães (@MacaesBruno) December 20, 2024

xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 December 2024 10:03 (two days ago) link

They must be stopped - whatever it takes

After the Israeli army seized 500 square kilometers of Syrian territory, dozens of settlers established a new outpost named “Mei Marom” opposite the Lebanese town of Maroun al-Ras. Images show settlers raising banners reading, “Lebanon is ours.” pic.twitter.com/NcYKeQMHNY

— Ramy Abdu| رامي عبده (@RamAbdu) December 18, 2024

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 December 2024 12:02 (yesterday) link


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