Which was the first year of this Millennium?

Please don't start another side poll about inconsistent capitalization of the word "millennium", I had enough trouble spelling it.

This poll in response to boxedjoy, who was wrong, and his stepdad, who was right, then later wrong.

I remember once having a screaming fight with my stepdad about the millennium. I was trying to explain how 2001 is the first year of the millennium and 2000 was the final year of the previous one, because of how numbers actually work, and being told that I was wrong because "everyone else said it was right." It descended from me being a bit of a know-it-all, like most eleven year old boys are, into a full barney. But I knew I was right. A few months later my stepdad brought it up again, this time he was in agreement, but he pretended we never had this discussion or argument despite it ending in some really vicious arguing, the kind of thing I haven't forgotten 23 years later!

― boxedjoy, Monday, 23 October 2023 19:01 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I only know that 1999 was the first year of the Willennium.

boxedjoy otm, CAAL offtm

I would like to point out that, yes I do agree that time is an artificial construct and meaning changes, but if we are going to use an artificial construct then surely we have to at least go by the rules of the construct that says "Year Zero" is not a real thing?

The pedantic booksmart gobshite pre-teen me had a very fixed view on this. Now as an adult I can see both sides, but I also absolutely have to be right about this just out of spite to my bastard former step-dad

Spite is an excellent reason for holding any view, i have to respect that

cool lock thread

I was trying to explain how 2001 is the first year of the millennium and 2000 was the final year of the previous one, because of how numbers actually work

calendars are quasi-numerical; they aren't mathematical. they're partly astronomy and partly arbitrary human contrivances, e.g. February has 28 days, except when it doesn't. So, if enough humans arbitrarily agree that the imaginary construct "third millennium CE" began on Jan. 1, 2000, there is no rational reason not to accept this in the same way we accept that weeks have seven days.

xp I am a small petty man, I am not afraid to admit that - even if it makes me similar to him in more ways than I care to admit

(itt: boxedjoy uses "the millenium" to hold an open indulgent therapy session)

also the Y2K bug was a very real fear in our household for some reason. My parents were convinced that everything would break and it would be disastrous, and not just some clocks resetting on the Video Plus. 1999 was wild

My parents were both computer programmers in the 70s, mum said she always made sure to use four digits for years, dad said he always just used two. this isn't the reason they divorced of course but it's still pretty telling.

Claiming it's 2000 isn't a question of usage it's a question of not being able to count

We count decades from 0 to 9 though. 1980 wasn't in the 70s!

it's 2000 because that's when all the millennium bullshit happened (or was supposed to happen for the things they fucked up)

are we going to insist that 1900 is the 19th century or 1970 is the 60s now?

actually I'm coming round on 1990 still being the 80s in which case the millennium was 9/11

Aimless otm… and there’s something more aesthetically pleasing about celebrating the change to 00.

People saying 'two thousand and-' instead of 'twenty-' when referring to any year after 2009 are the real enemy.

no

We count decades from 0 to 9 though.

Well, it feels more natural to do it that way. By insisting on starting the millennium called 'The Two Thousands' in the year 2000 people are simply correcting the unfortunate oversight of not having a Year Zero -- by acting as if one exists, thereby restoring inner peace and harmony to the march of time.

ChatGPT told me the first year of the 20th Century was 1900 but the first year of the 21st Century was 2001. When I pointed out the discrepancy, it backtracked and said 1901 was the first year of the 20th Century. And added some stuff about it all being an artificial convention anyway.

Time is meaningless in the Black Iron Prison.

We count decades from 0 to 9 though. 1980 wasn't in the 70s!

This! I have made that same point.

Mostly I think it's funny anyone gets worked up about it. It's all invented! We can call it whatever the hell we want. The absence of a postdated Year Zero is an awfully thin thing to hang anything on. (If you think the years are inconsistent, let me talk to you about "months.")

(I mean, the AD calendar system wasn't even adopted until the 6th century. Who can swear they didn't lose a year somewhere?)

There's an amazing letter on Ask A Manager where someone is complaining because their workplace does birthday celebrations every year for each colleague's birthday, but they miss out because they were born Feb 29th and the rest of the office refuse to accept that they should get the same annual celebration because Feb 28/Mar 1 don't count as their birthday

when all the millennium bullshit happened

a friend's dad hid in a cave up in the hills on 12/31/99, but finally returned home when he ran out of food

On 1/1/2000?

The people at my church then were weirdly convinced it was an end times thing, to the point where one of the college mentors who was in youth group expressed confidence it'd be fine because his bank already simulated rolling forward to 2000 with success, only for the youth group later to say that didn't matter because it wasn't really 1/1/2000 yet so that test was useless

Guys, when we are long dead people will count 2001 as the beginning of this millennium. Doesn’t matter what we call it now.

All's I know is this is the millennium of Aftermath, there ain't gonna be nothing after that

when we are long dead people will count 2001 as the beginning of this millennium

i mean, no they won't obv, but if they do, it will only then have become the beginning of the millennium

is it because it superficially involves math that you guys think it must be an actual thing actually lodged in some corner of god's brain somewhere and not the name of a ritual

what if time is meaningless though

What if the real millenium was the friends we make along the way

numbers: fact or fiction?

mambo no 5

the matrix

dental plan (Lisa needs braces)

big tech wants us to buy into this whole centuries business. follow the money sheeple

90s started around 97-88

00s started around 98

78-81 is kinda roarshachy

but if we are going to use an artificial construct then surely we have to at least go by the rules of the construct that says "Year Zero" is not a real thing?

correcting the unfortunate oversight of not having a Year Zero

I have some alarming news for you guys about Year One

I had no idea people would even consider 2001 the start of a millennium. What a strange idea

Step aboard this Ship of the Imagination

numbers: fact or fiction?

This is a pretty open question in the philosophy of mathematics

POLL-millennium tension

I find it far easier to stipulate that the first century only had 99 years than to go around pretending that centuries and millennia don't start when the big number turns over.

Precisely my position.

I have some great news for you guys about the first century

no offence to teenage boxedjoy but I always thought this was the worst kind of tedious pedantry

Bank of America used to have a giant data center in downlown LA (it's now where that big Ferrante apt. complex is now) and all through 1996-1999 several of the programming staff used to unwind at the Red Lion on Glendale Blvd. They'd actually been dealing with Y2K-related data issues and by '98 they said they were done with it. My preparations were to stock up on champaign and toilet paper.

…but he pretended we never had this discussion or argument despite it ending in some really vicious arguing

^^ good strategy for cordial ongoing relations. Good relationship > unimportant accuracy/detail

If you're talking about the first year of a baby's life you're not talking about the age between 1 and 2

If we’re counting a millennium as 999 years instead of a thousand then the third millennium would have started on Jan.1 1999.

I know we celebrated the new millennium on the turn into 2000, but 2001 feels logical

thankfully ilx is never home to any tedious pedantry now

Which is larger, infinity or 2 x infinity?

I wonder if we would be having this debate if instead of skipping year zero in the calendar (going from -1 to +1) the calendar makers had decided to skip some other year instead (like going from year 6 to year 8)

I know I could look this up, but I'm curious when, exactly, Christendom reset the calendar.

Ah

The idea of numbering years beginning from the date then believed to be the date of birth of Jesus, was conceived around the year 525 by the Christian monk Dionysius Exiguus. He did this to replace the then dominant Era of Martyrs system, because he did not wish to continue the memory of a tyrant who persecuted Christians. He numbered years from an initial reference date ("epoch"), an event he referred to as the Incarnation of Jesus. Dionysius labeled the column of the table in which he introduced the new era as "Anni Domini Nostri Jesu Christi".

This way of numbering years became more widespread in Europe with its use by Bede in England in 731. Bede also introduced the practice of dating years before what he supposed was the year of birth of Jesus,[15] and the practice of not using a year zero. In 1422, Portugal became the last Western European country to switch to the system begun by Dionysius.

The timing of Easter is like a microcosm of the religious obsession with calendars:

its date is computed based on a lunisolar calendar (solar year plus Moon phase) similar to the Hebrew calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established only two rules, namely independence from the Hebrew calendar and worldwide uniformity. No details for the computation were specified; these were worked out in practice, a process that took centuries and generated a number of controversies

2001 AD
2000 CE

oh shit

Had no idea about the "Era of the Martyrs" system, which is still used by the Coptic Church. Today is 13 Baba, 1740 in the Era of the Martyrs system! So they're a good 260 years off worrying about when their millennium turns.

In Coptic Church, Era martyrs you!

I remember the build up to the new millennium being 2000 which i think went on for years and even decades. Large significant number which people made a big deal out of.
Significance enhanced by the idea of the millennium bug meaning all computers being fated to crash at midnight. Which of course never visibly happened but a massive deal was made of it for ages beforehand. Part of which may have prevented more widespread damage I guess.
Also as far as I can remember most people did view themselves as living in the new millennium at the time not having to wait another year.

2001 just so much seems the beginning of the current era. 2000 was just the last full year of Clinton.

presidents key

Nicely done :)

So far I would say that Tipsy is rightest. It's all arbitrary so we can do what we wish.

Nashwan is, I hope, trolling. Especially by omitting the obvious compromise solution, which is to omitting the "and."

"Two thousand ten" is more elegant than either "twenty ten" OR the completely ridiculous "two thousand and ten."

Also in some American accents, 2010 came out as "twinny tin," which I do not love.

Then we get to 2023, and there is a fussy part of me that still wants to say "two thousand twenty-three" but I acknowledge that "twenty twenty-three" is comprehensible.

if after two thousand and ten years of the grace of our lord you live in a culture that hasnt the time to say two thousand and ten then may he strike down your walls and cities in wrath at your hurry and lack of style

twenty and ten

It's three thousand thirty

Preztron

may he strike down your walls and cities in wrath at your hurry and lack of style

pretty sure this is happening yeah

yeah i had the inside track

That’s Kali Yuga - the current age of violence, hypocrisy and sin - which began on 17 February 3102 BCE and has 426,876 years left to run before it ends in fire and destruction.

kind of like a fireworks display

a guy tried to sell me one of those last april but the figures on the range/charge rate didnt add up and also i had concerns about the leather finish inside

It does assume that Republicans are capable of governing well

wrong thread oops

it depends. the millennium and the apocalypse are highly adjacent subjects

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

The ILX collective hivemind delivers the truth again.

Well, at least 40 Ilxors, since we start counting at zero now

the millennium as an event was a 2000 thing all the way (delayed millennium bullshit projects notwithstanding) - 9/11 didn't happen during "the millennium" or if it did it made it obvious that whatever vague ideas were still floating around about what "the millennium" was supposed to be were just last century's ideas reheated and turbocharged in an strangely half arsed way. so thanks osama for putting an end to that nonsense

no thanks for murdering all those innocent people, that wasn't cool

The first year of this millennium is when Jesus comes back to be king on for a thousand years on the river Jordan.

So, 2023

Well, at least 40 Ilxors, since we start counting at zero now

when you’ve read and understood the thread, history, and the gregorian calendar

no thanks for murdering all those innocent people, that wasn't cool

Thanks for clarifying

I would also like to go on the record for that particular take

You do not, under any circumstances, have to hand it to him

Osama had some interesting ideas about the Gregorian calendar

The millenium will happen in 555 years, inshallah

Then-U.S. president Bill Clinton, who organized efforts to minimize the damage in the United States, labeled Y2K as "the first challenge of the 21st century successfully met"

boundless and bare the lone and level sands stretch far away