― anthony, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― dave q, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Greg, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Geoff, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Nick, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Geoff, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
That, or it's a mutated form of the old "20/80" rule.
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― J, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
It sometimes seems to me that only 10% are aware of the fact that the plural does not take an apostrophe. On Friday at work I was handed a reasonably official document featuring "addresse's", "alumni's" and "criteria's". I'm not taking these fivepercenters seriously until they can at least get the basics of the language right...
― Martin Skidmore, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Josh, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― DeRayMi, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark s, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Allah Jihad, Thursday, 3 October 2002 16:25 (twenty-three years ago)
Truly, they are sent to torment Martin.
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 3 October 2002 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)
― Justice Rajee Allah, Saturday, 2 November 2002 06:17 (twenty-three years ago)
does this mean anything
― anthony easton (anthony), Friday, 23 June 2006 08:12 (nineteen years ago)
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Friday, 23 June 2006 11:10 (nineteen years ago)
― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 23 June 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 23 June 2006 21:13 (nineteen years ago)
PEOPLE FROM CORK!?
― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 23 June 2006 23:43 (nineteen years ago)
― Maria :D (Maria D.), Saturday, 24 June 2006 00:19 (nineteen years ago)
― anthony easton (anthony), Saturday, 24 June 2006 01:36 (nineteen years ago)
― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:22 (nineteen years ago)
― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:23 (nineteen years ago)
― jinx hijinks (sanskrit), Saturday, 24 June 2006 09:58 (nineteen years ago)
I just saw the spokesman for the Council on American Islamic Relations on CNN saying that the Miami cult members just arrested are not Muslims. I'd say that is a fair statement.
For one thing, they are vegetarians!
It seems pretty obvious that they are just a local African-American cult which mixed Judaism, Christianity and (a little bit of) Islam. It seems to be a of vague offshoot of the Moors group founded by Dwight York. I heard on CNN that one of them talked of being Moors. And Batiste, the leader, called whites "devils" in the tradition of the original Nation of Islam and York's Moors. Now CNN is saying one member said they practiced witchcraft [likely meaning Haitian voodoo or perhaps Santeria-like rituals]. One former member is called Levi-El, suggesting he might be associated with the Black Hebrew movement or an offshoot. Now a relative of one of the members, Phanor, said that they wore black uniforms with a star of David arm patch and considered themselves of the Order of Melchizadek. I wonder if it is "Seas of David" or "C's of David", with "c" meaning commando or some such?
I define cult as a religious group that has values that put it in a high state of tension with the norms of mainstream society, and that has a leadership that imposes high levels of discipline and demand for control of adherents' lives.
This Seas of David group primarily seems to have been studying the Bible. The mother of one insisted that he is a Catholic. Then there is all that Jewish symbology and terminology, even in their names. Islam was nothing more for them but a set of symbols they could pull into their syncretic local culture. The group drew on poor Haitian immigrants and local indigent African-American youth. If this were the 1960s, they'd have been Black Panthers or Communists.
American folk religion, pursued in small groups with charismatic leaders, is replete with such groups, from Father Divine to Jim Jones of the People's Temple to David Koreish.
The group never got past the stage of talking big, and violently. They talked dangerously, and some sort of intervention was warranted. Since they begged the FBI informant for "shoes," they weren't exactly a well-heeled group that seems very dangerous in actual practice. And, to what extent did the FBI informant press an al-Qaeda connection on these otherwise clueless but imaginative zealots?
But contrast the grandstanding of Alberto Gonzales on this group of poor unarmed ghetto folk with the way in which the Robert J. Goldstein case was treated. He actually had the bombs in his house and was going to blow up Floridians. No press called him a "Jewish" terrorist and no questions were ever raised about his possible international links.
Imagine the horror of an urbane Arab-American professional with university higher degrees, steeped in Islamic culture and contributing to American society, at being lumped in by the American press and officialdom with these cultists who appropriated his religion for their violent religious fantasies.
The other thing to say is that American law is soft on cultic practices, of dirty tricks against and smearing of critics, enforced third-party shunning, manipulation, and group coercion. These things are not protected by the First Amendment and I think one part of our counter-terrorism strategy must be to develop legal strategies to make it easier to disrupt the workings of cults before they accumulate a critical mass for violent action. The practice of just letting the head of the Internal Revenue Service decide if a group is a tax-free religion should also be revisited. In the past, some IRS heads appear to have been blackmailed by cults into granting them that status, which allows them to accumulate more wealth.
Whereas most terrorism is a form of educated, middle class politics, this particular group clearly grew out of the grievances and resentments of race and class inequality in the United States.
The sister of one was just on MSNBC saying that he deeply resented Bush spending money to drop bombs on poor people who could not defend themselves, while depriving the poor in the United States of any support. "We are not capable," she said. This is a theory of class war, connecting the poor of Kut with the poor of Miami's inner city. The city, by the way, has horrific levels of unemployment.
The position of the poor and workers in particular is deteriorating in the US, as more and more of the privately held wealth is concentrated in the hands of a white, privileged, few. The unions have been gutted, the minimum wage is inadequate, and racist attitudes are reemerging on a worrisome scale. Cities such as Detroit, New Orleans and Miami continue to witness enormous strains coming mainly from racist attitudes. In this case, the best counter-terrorism would be more social justice.
http://www.juancole.com/
I'd be very surprised if NOI were to knowingly let any of its members get involved with anything like this. (Five Percenters/Nation of Gods & Earths is another issue, since they don't seem to have any really hierarchy.)
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 24 June 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)
i fear for the 85 who ain't got a clue tbh
― konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:23 (thirteen years ago)
*lacks knowledge of self*
*studies his lessons*
*builds*
― konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:09 (thirteen years ago)
*destroys*
Arm Leg Leg Arm Head and all that
― fables of frogbs (lpz), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:02 (thirteen years ago)
so i just discovered the existence of this and read the wiki page
basis was weird enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Percent_Nation#Basis
but then i scroll down and see a list of five percenters
was doom really part of this? the reference mentions nothing of it
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 16 May 2016 22:11 (nine years ago)
Tons of rappers in the 90s were into this, its referenced all over the place
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 22:16 (nine years ago)
ya just talking about mf doom here
i know he was part of ansaar allah but is there any source that actually says he was a five percenter?
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 16 May 2016 22:19 (nine years ago)
well what do you mean by "was" it's not like these groups didn't have fluid memberships/tons of overlap
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 22:19 (nine years ago)
associated/connected/held beliefs similar to/pick whatever word/phrase you want
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 16 May 2016 22:22 (nine years ago)
my guess is that wikipedia treats all the late 80s/early 90s NY Black Muslim groups as more or less interchangeable and that there was pretty fluid membership for each, idk if you're gonna get a really definite answer unless you literally ask Doom if he is/was a Fiver percenter
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 22:52 (nine years ago)