Five Percenters and the nation of islam .

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I have started trying to research this on the web but have no context. It is all black and white. No impartial sources. Can someone direct me to a clear and unbiased history.

anthony, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Clark Howard's 'Zebra' has some interesting information, it's in quite an unpleasant context tho (fanatical serial slayers in early 70s)

dave q, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ethan can help.

Greg, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

is this like a queer islam thing?

Geoff, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, it's like this Nation of Islam thing that says 85% of the population is ignorant, 10% is evil and to be overcome and 5% is wise and righteous. I hate to think who the 10% are supposed to consist of.

Nick, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Anti Bow Tie Society?

Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

maybe the 10& is us queers?

Geoff, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yup. Queers and Jews, I'd imagine. I can quite see why Antony might want to read up on it.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Because knowledge is power ?

anthony, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And knowing is half the battle!

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 21 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

and it helps to know what yr enemies look like before you shoot em!

Geoff, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It seems like this 85% schlub/10% asshole/5% righteous dudes breakdown is a mutated form of W.E.B. DuBois's notion of the "Talented Tenth." Namely, that 10% of a given population will provide an inordinate amount of the entire population's innovation, enterprise, and all other good things. Not that Mr. DuBois would have had much use for the likes of Farrakhan, though.

That, or it's a mutated form of the old "20/80" rule.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ten months pass...
85% of the population is blind, deaf and dumb to the fact's, 10% are aware of the fact's and sell a misenterpretation of these fact's to the blind for strictly personal gain. Only 5% of the population know the truth and teach it openly. In your search for an unbiased answer my advice would be to run a search on google keywords "five percenters". However, I use the term "unbiased" very loosely. The term would refer to one with no interest in painting a positive or negative image, which is made difficult by the fact that the only source that third parties( meaning those niether with or against ) can gather information is through parties with direct interests( meaning biased ). Five Percenters are a very inflamatory topic, because our teachings consist of the Fact that I am God. As in any other Group of People, you will find evidence of Righteousness as well as wrong. Just because a man shares my last name does not make us of the same breed. Here is another tip: Clarence Smith ( Clarence 13X ) founded the Five percenters in NY. As far as "unbiased" goes there have been a few college studies on the topic U. of Chicago school of Divinity is one.

J, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

10% are aware of the fact's...

It sometimes seems to me that only 10% are aware of the fact that the plural does not take an apostrophe. On Friday at work I was handed a reasonably official document featuring "addresse's", "alumni's" and "criteria's". I'm not taking these fivepercenters seriously until they can at least get the basics of the language right...

Martin Skidmore, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

haha well YOU'RE not a god, maybe you just don't realize that grammatical 'facts' AREN'T

Josh, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I stumbled onto this site lately while looking for information on an Arabic singer. It seems suitably academic, while being somewhat sympathetic: Islam in the Mix: Lesson of the Five Percent

DeRayMi, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

While accepting that I am not any kind of god (among the mildest insults I have ever received), Josh, I maintain that grammatical facts are facts - I do not maintain that they are unalterable, because they aren't, but the correct meaning of the apostrophe is factual (as is the fact that alumni and criteria are plurals already, and don't need an "s", let alone an "'s"). I realise that English does not have an academy setting the rules, but that doesn't mean that we don't have rules - if that were to be the case, language vanishes.

Martin Skidmore, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

roXoR

mark s, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

'factual' haha you knew what they meant didn't you??

Josh, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...
Peace,
My name is Allah Jihad(legally), I was born in the nation of God's & Earth's(fromaly known as the Five Percenters). Our official site is: Allahsnation.net and our discussion group is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/C-MEDINA
I read the messages by the individual's here who " judge " about something you have no knowledge of and basing your so=called facts on articles on the internet. The internet is not a good way to learn about any balck movements and I suggest you go and get your facts face to face from those who are in those movements and been in it over 10 years and ut it work. Peace !

Allah Jihad, Thursday, 3 October 2002 16:25 (twenty-three years ago)

the individual's

Truly, they are sent to torment Martin.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 3 October 2002 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

four weeks pass...
Peace,
I read this thread and I am willing as a member of the Nation of Gods and Earths answer any questions you have as long as we maintain respect for each other's rights and stay civilized. Its is hard to get an objective veiw of my nation because so much info that you find is either burying us or trying to show sympathy. I will not provide you with copies of our teachings or any info that I think is mission critcal, however I will provide you with the best answers I have. Peace

Justice Rajee Allah, Saturday, 2 November 2002 06:17 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...
anyone want to talk about the people arrested in chicago, who were apparently NoI as opposed to more orthodx middle eastern muslims

does this mean anything

anthony easton (anthony), Friday, 23 June 2006 08:12 (nineteen years ago)

would it kill you to provide a link?

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Friday, 23 June 2006 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

weren't they arrested in florida?

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 23 June 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

and weren't two of 'em Haitian?

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 23 June 2006 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

I hate to think who the 10% are supposed to consist of.

PEOPLE FROM CORK!?

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 23 June 2006 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

thanks maria, i heard it on the tv news, and was busy today

anthony easton (anthony), Saturday, 24 June 2006 01:36 (nineteen years ago)

Why can't Five Percenters rite good?

Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:22 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry: Five Percenter's.

Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:23 (nineteen years ago)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6664/brandnubianone9ym.jpg

jinx hijinks (sanskrit), Saturday, 24 June 2006 09:58 (nineteen years ago)

CAIR: Miami Cult not Muslims

I just saw the spokesman for the Council on American Islamic Relations on CNN saying that the Miami cult members just arrested are not Muslims. I'd say that is a fair statement.

For one thing, they are vegetarians!

It seems pretty obvious that they are just a local African-American cult which mixed Judaism, Christianity and (a little bit of) Islam. It seems to be a of vague offshoot of the Moors group founded by Dwight York. I heard on CNN that one of them talked of being Moors. And Batiste, the leader, called whites "devils" in the tradition of the original Nation of Islam and York's Moors. Now CNN is saying one member said they practiced witchcraft [likely meaning Haitian voodoo or perhaps Santeria-like rituals]. One former member is called Levi-El, suggesting he might be associated with the Black Hebrew movement or an offshoot. Now a relative of one of the members, Phanor, said that they wore black uniforms with a star of David arm patch and considered themselves of the Order of Melchizadek. I wonder if it is "Seas of David" or "C's of David", with "c" meaning commando or some such?

I define cult as a religious group that has values that put it in a high state of tension with the norms of mainstream society, and that has a leadership that imposes high levels of discipline and demand for control of adherents' lives.

This Seas of David group primarily seems to have been studying the Bible. The mother of one insisted that he is a Catholic. Then there is all that Jewish symbology and terminology, even in their names. Islam was nothing more for them but a set of symbols they could pull into their syncretic local culture. The group drew on poor Haitian immigrants and local indigent African-American youth. If this were the 1960s, they'd have been Black Panthers or Communists.

American folk religion, pursued in small groups with charismatic leaders, is replete with such groups, from Father Divine to Jim Jones of the People's Temple to David Koreish.

The group never got past the stage of talking big, and violently. They talked dangerously, and some sort of intervention was warranted. Since they begged the FBI informant for "shoes," they weren't exactly a well-heeled group that seems very dangerous in actual practice. And, to what extent did the FBI informant press an al-Qaeda connection on these otherwise clueless but imaginative zealots?

But contrast the grandstanding of Alberto Gonzales on this group of poor unarmed ghetto folk with the way in which the Robert J. Goldstein case was treated. He actually had the bombs in his house and was going to blow up Floridians. No press called him a "Jewish" terrorist and no questions were ever raised about his possible international links.

Imagine the horror of an urbane Arab-American professional with university higher degrees, steeped in Islamic culture and contributing to American society, at being lumped in by the American press and officialdom with these cultists who appropriated his religion for their violent religious fantasies.

The other thing to say is that American law is soft on cultic practices, of dirty tricks against and smearing of critics, enforced third-party shunning, manipulation, and group coercion. These things are not protected by the First Amendment and I think one part of our counter-terrorism strategy must be to develop legal strategies to make it easier to disrupt the workings of cults before they accumulate a critical mass for violent action. The practice of just letting the head of the Internal Revenue Service decide if a group is a tax-free religion should also be revisited. In the past, some IRS heads appear to have been blackmailed by cults into granting them that status, which allows them to accumulate more wealth.

Whereas most terrorism is a form of educated, middle class politics, this particular group clearly grew out of the grievances and resentments of race and class inequality in the United States.

The sister of one was just on MSNBC saying that he deeply resented Bush spending money to drop bombs on poor people who could not defend themselves, while depriving the poor in the United States of any support. "We are not capable," she said. This is a theory of class war, connecting the poor of Kut with the poor of Miami's inner city. The city, by the way, has horrific levels of unemployment.

The position of the poor and workers in particular is deteriorating in the US, as more and more of the privately held wealth is concentrated in the hands of a white, privileged, few. The unions have been gutted, the minimum wage is inadequate, and racist attitudes are reemerging on a worrisome scale. Cities such as Detroit, New Orleans and Miami continue to witness enormous strains coming mainly from racist attitudes. In this case, the best counter-terrorism would be more social justice.

http://www.juancole.com/

I'd be very surprised if NOI were to knowingly let any of its members get involved with anything like this. (Five Percenters/Nation of Gods & Earths is another issue, since they don't seem to have any really hierarchy.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 24 June 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

(Sorry, copied more of that than was really directly related.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

just listen to lots of wu-tang if you want to know all about the 5 percenters.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

five years pass...

i fear for the 85 who ain't got a clue tbh

konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:23 (thirteen years ago)

*lacks knowledge of self*

konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:23 (thirteen years ago)

*studies his lessons*

konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:23 (thirteen years ago)

*builds*

konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:09 (thirteen years ago)

*destroys*

konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:09 (thirteen years ago)

Arm Leg Leg Arm Head and all that

fables of frogbs (lpz), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:02 (thirteen years ago)

four years pass...

so i just discovered the existence of this and read the wiki page

basis was weird enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Percent_Nation#Basis

but then i scroll down and see a list of five percenters

was doom really part of this? the reference mentions nothing of it

F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 16 May 2016 22:11 (nine years ago)

Tons of rappers in the 90s were into this, its referenced all over the place

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 22:16 (nine years ago)

ya just talking about mf doom here

i know he was part of ansaar allah but is there any source that actually says he was a five percenter?

F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 16 May 2016 22:19 (nine years ago)

well what do you mean by "was" it's not like these groups didn't have fluid memberships/tons of overlap

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 22:19 (nine years ago)

associated/connected/held beliefs similar to/pick whatever word/phrase you want

F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 16 May 2016 22:22 (nine years ago)

my guess is that wikipedia treats all the late 80s/early 90s NY Black Muslim groups as more or less interchangeable and that there was pretty fluid membership for each, idk if you're gonna get a really definite answer unless you literally ask Doom if he is/was a Fiver percenter

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 22:52 (nine years ago)


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