Let's Anticipate David Fincher's THE KILLER

https://i.imgur.com/RoZqwko.jpg

Starring Michael Fassbender as Daniel Craig apparently.

Two things that have set my brain against this film;
1. Soundtrack being tons of Smiths songs
2. There's already a perfect film with this title

Fassbender as Craig as Hunter S. Thompson

I'm pretty done with Fincher at this point

Mank was a blow, yes, the most dumbly conventional film he's made.

Kind of done with hitmen and serial killer movies.

(... I write, before immediately thinking of "John Wick," though I am happy to twist my brain into convincing myself that those movies transcend hitman movies. If the bizarre alternative "Wick" world is populated almost entirely of hitmen, are they truly hitmen? )

John Wick movies are our musicals

And you, I take it, are the Paderewski who plays his concerto on me, the piano?

Well, other than Tilda Swinton's high swank bit, this was a big nothing.

Two things I didn't despise about this awful film: 1) the running gag about his pseudonyms, which I didn't pick up on until R.K. halfway. That made me smile, then even that became tiresome before long. 2) Like either Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul (can't remember which), they more or less reprise the Steven Prince scene from Taxi Driver--the pernicious influence of which on this was already clear enough. But that was sort of cool.

Not much of a Smiths fan, so no nostalgic or proprietary feelings there, but I don't recall such inept use of a soundtrack in quite a while.

I think Fincher is trying to say something about his process via the unbearable voiceover but I don't care enough to really think about what exactly he's saying

somehow didn't hate this movie though, it looks great at least

find it a bit surprising that of the two Netflix movies about hitmen, Linklater has the better one by far

the unbearable voiceover

The second time he launched into that mantra of his, I was stupified. "This is dumbest, corniest thing I've ever heard." (You might be right about what it means to Fincher.)

Well, other than Tilda Swinton's high swank bit, this was a big nothing.

The fight with The Brute was pretty great

was it? How so?

finally - finally! - David Fincher uses his talents to give us a look inside the twisted mind of a killer

Yeah, I'm so skipping this

I can't even say that the joy of watching Swinton throw back a flight of single malt scotches is enough.

I like Fincher when he is able to absolutely nail it (Zodiac, Mindhunter, a couple parts of The Social Network), but at this point to me he feels like increasingly wasted potential. Or maybe he has just a particularly limited wheelhouse.

But I haven't seen Gone Girl so I should give that a fair shot.

Seven has some good bits as well, though I think a lot less of it now than I did when I was 20. It's not one of those films that grows richer over time imo.

I think it really hinges on the material. Fincher is super detail oriented, which is useful when it comes to Zodiac or Social Network or maybe even something like Fight Club, which are all studies of perception and observation, in a sense, but not so important when he's in pulp mode, like Gone Girl or Benjamin Button or Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, say, which imo benefit less from Fincher's eye. That is, I think Fincher made those first few better than anyone else could have made them, Se7en as well, but I think that last batch of broader Hollywood fare didn't really need someone like him. At least not Gone Girl or Dragon Tattoo, solid entertainments though they may be. Benjamin Button, no one needed that shit.

The Game and Fight Club are afterthoughts at this stage? What about his best film, Alien 3?

Gone Girl has serious ILE defenders.

Forgot about The Game, that's another pulpy one that's probably better made than it needs to be.

Probably the most schizophrenic director out there for me in terms of my reaction to his work.

Dreadful: the new one
Ugly and uglier: Seven, Fight Club
Tepid: Mank
Neither here nor there: Panic Room, The Game, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Pretty good: Gone Girl
Love: House of Cards (I think he mostly worked on earlier episodes) and Mindhunter
Excellent: The Social Network
Sometimes my favourite film ever: Zodiac

Heh, forgot about Panic Room, too, that's another really well made Hollywood entertainment.

Alien3 is his best movie (and the second-best Alien movie overall). Fight Club is an interesting time capsule. Zodiac is airless. Mindhunter was fun for a while but I bailed before the end of Season 1 because again, airless. Seven was fun at the time but I suspect it wouldn't hold up. Panic Room and The Game were interesting but wasted their potential. (The Game could have been great in the hands of Tony Scott.) Social Network and Gone Girl are competent entertainments. I've never seen Dragon Tattoo, Mank, or Benjamin Button. This one looks like his attempt to make a Soderbergh movie, and Soderbergh is much better at pulp entertainment than Fincher could ever dream of being.

What does "airless" mean in this context? I've seen the word used occasionally but I don't know if it's a legit criticism.

To me it means the movies feel like dioramas built in little glass tanks. No one in them registers as alive and/or human, except maybe the scenes in Mindhunter where Holt McAllany is making fun of the other FBI agent.

Hmm. Guess I should try Mindhunter.

I had a good time at The Game. I think Pinchers overpreparedness suits the conceit of the over-elaborate game, plus the two leads are fun - straight edge Douglas + Sean Penn doing Sean Penn is a good combo, kind of like Douglas and DeVito in Romancing the Stone.

I’m largely on board with clemenza excepting that I still love SEVEN and FIGHT CLUB for bravura filmmaking. Not so BENJAMIN BUTTON, the only film of his I haven’t been able to get through.

I think Fincher is trying to say something about his process via the unbearable voiceover but I don't care enough to really think about what exactly he's saying

a long set up to a very funny punch-line imo (him completely fucking it up)

can't even say that the joy of watching Swinton throw back a flight of single malt scotches is enough.

she only smells the first one: no way the rest are single malts.

skipped seeing Train To Busan for free 15 mins walk from my flat to discover that the cinema 16km away that gets netflicks has doubled its prices since I last went. still would have been a bad choice at half the price.

Tilda scene was compelling, Brute fight was thrilling (their completely different skill sets created tension amplified by the blocking / editing), Sub Pop billionaire actor was fantastic

If this was based closely on the first book, I can’t imagine how following the character in subsequent adventures can be satisfying

she only smells the first one: no way the rest are single malts.

She got more nervous as she got drunker; also, she can afford them. You might be right.

Wasn't that restaurant lit beautifully?

I'm with Morbs, who if memory serves held Fight Club, a funny movie about how dumb men are, in high regard and the rest pretty much not.

I don't regard Zodiac as highly as clemenza, but it's his most realized film -- and funniest.

I think what you and I just proved rn is that Fincher is very much not funny.

Speaking for many here: this can no longer be ignored.

Glad it's been finally brought to light

Side note: https://variety.com/2023/film/news/fight-club-far-right-incels-david-fincher-responds-1235773001/

“It’s impossible for me to imagine that people don’t understand that Tyler Durden (Brad Pitt) is a negative influence,” Fincher added. “People who can’t understand that, I don’t know how to respond and I don’t know how to help them.”

(Narrator: "Morbs somewhat identified with Tyler Durden.")

For a long time one of my core challops was "Alien 3 is the only Fincher good movie", because at least it had the conviction to actually admit that it was just silly pulp fun

"fun" isn't what I would associate with that movie, though it wasn't like...the abortion people said it was. wouldn't say I like it much though.

Those abortion people can be such harsh critics

lol

Saw this via Alamo MoviePass: slick, pretty much No-Moral Theater. (I know nothing about the comic it's based on? So who knows how much of this is really Fincher or just the source material.) The two things I was amused by:

* That's how to dispense with opening credits, just, quick, done. (Reminds me of the first and the McQuarrie Mission: Impossible films in that regard. But then again the whole Paris sequence in Fallout was rather more interesting than the one here.)

* All kinds of Gen X music in the film beyond a certain warbler's old band -- the Portishead drop at the house, the one dude at the end with the artfully distressed Sub Pop shirt -- and again not knowing whether it was in the original text I was amused in thinking about how either it meant our lead bro was either a nostalgist who chose to listen them 'before he went bad' or absolutely embraced his current assholery and indeed does not give a fuck. But if Fincher wanted to use 80s music on Sire let's see him rescore the whole thing with selections from Like a Prayer instead and have the botched effort at the start soundtracked to "Express Yourself" for the full self-referential LOLs.

Fantastic.

I don’t understand the Equalizer or John Wick comparisons. I prefer The Killer’s lack of “lore.” If anything, it reminded me of Lynne Ramsay’s You Were Never Really Here.

Didn't like this at all. Found it totally inert. Arliss Howard and Kerry O'Malley (Dolores) played recognizable human beings; everyone else was a chess piece or scenery. When was the last time Tilda Swinton actually acted in a movie, instead of showing up spotlit like the director's nudging you in the ribs and shouting "Look! Tilda Swinton! Isn't her hair incredible?" As far as the actual direction, except for the masturbatory Hitchcock/De Palma stuff at the beginning, it felt like Fincher trying to make a Soderbergh movie and failing. Soderbergh's pulp movies (Haywire is an obvious antecedent, but Side Effects and Kimi too) leave this thing in the dust.

But her hair was incredible.

Max Read has a really excellent read of this in his newsletter, the first thing I've read that makes me want to see it (basically Fassbender as sigma male/'loser internet' avatar).

Didn’t like this - less John Wick and more like Dexter, right down to the self-righteous voiceover being constantly interrupted by the protagonist’s own fuckups

Fincher making fun of himself should be better than this

(xpost) I found that incredibly annoying...not even a band I particularly care for.

Think I like Fincher more than most here, but this was pointless. Repetitive scenes, ponderous VO, and inferior to several similar movies y'all have named. Like clemenza, I found the music cutting in-and-out annoying and distracting, really hope that doesn't become a trend. I did like Swinton's scene, the movie needed more characters like her

Mank was also pointless but at least it felt like a stretch for Fincher. this feels like Fincher made by AI

To paraphrase Deep Throat in All the President's Men, Fincher got me feeling sorry for the Smiths--I didn't think that was possible.

I hate not to use my MUBI GO ticket but you guys are making me not feel so bad about this.

In this case, I meant to say.

I liked it but don't care enough to defend it

When was the last time Tilda Swinton actually acted in a movie

can't recommend the eternal daughter (2022) highly enough, and she plays 2 leads

yeah, unperson, you are WAY wrong about Swinton. She's been marvelous in Joanna Hogg's last several films.

I liked it but don't care enough to defend it

I liked it but don't care enough to defend it

^^^

So this was exactly like Dexter if Dexter took itself seriously and never did anything fun.
The deadpan voiceover, repeating the rules, until the "oh shit" record scratch. Kept thinking it was going to subvert the trope at some point but... nope.

That said, I kinda liked watching it, esp the recycling bin bit, but will forget it in a week.

Didn’t like this - less John Wick and more like Dexter, right down to the self-righteous voiceover being constantly interrupted by the protagonist’s own fuckups
Fincher making fun of himself should be better than this

Fiona Bruce's voice at the start of the big fight was amusing

I didn’t hate it but … kinda don’t have anything to say about it.

Even the idea that this is a metaphor for the director’s career long journey doesn’t make this any more interesting

massive meh from me. I keep dozing off and am not sure I have the energy to go back and see the bits I missed near the end.

yeah, unperson, you are WAY wrong about Swinton. She's been marvelous in Joanna Hogg's last several films.

no shit, all three are some of my favorite movies in recent memory and she is exceptional in them

the cliched voice over is just...so fucking awful. i too thought there must be some hidden reason that this guy is just spewing cliche after cliche and I don't think there was. it's just bad writing.

every John Wick movie has better dialog. As far as revenge movies go, this pales next to Pig.

every John Wick movie has better dialog. As far as revenge movies go, this pales next to Pig.

every John Wick movie has better dialog. As far as revenge movies go, this pales next to Pig.

"The Killer" tears down the great, civilizing art of The Smiths. But he didn't have the wit to use "Meat is Murder." It would expose his lunacy. That makes David #Fincher the Hollywood equivalent of the Taliban. #TheKiller

You get one guess as to who wrote that.

can we stop linking to him? He qualifies as a hate group at this point.

"...the civilizing art..." ?? wtf kind of language is that

i liked this

the fight w the florida brute is the best fight scene since i dont even know when

i’m glad someone upthread mentioned how much his “tourist” costume looks like hunter s. thompson cause i noticed that right away lol. good job being inconspicuous, sir

I was thinking that - “dude, you could not be more obvious if you were holding a dozen red balloons”

i quite liked this. it's not deep but it's fun and has good actors and puts some interesting spins on the assassin genre. i particularly liked the "hitman as gig worker" angle, with fassbinder not working for a syndicate like john wick but essentially being a contract worker who is abandoned by his overseers as soon as he makes one mistake, plus camping out in an abandoned wework, ordering all his gear on amazon, using postmates to get access into buildings, etc. also really enjoyed arliss howard's aging hipster corporate maven asshole character a lot. it's a funny movie! if you're not laughing, you're watching it wrong.

i think this movie has been fucked by being a netflix release (ie not getting a real theatrical run) and it being more of a satire than an action movie

^^^ sums up my experience totally. I larfed a lot.

Have y’all read those Lawrence Block Keller stories?

xxp Yeah, I read a review that mentioned that aspect, meant to post it here: https://www.vulture.com/article/the-killer-ending-explained-why-doesnt-he-shoot.html - it's better than the URL/title

I asked David Fincher about a very specific costume choice in THE KILLER: Why is Arliss Howard wearing a t-shirt for Sub Pop, the label famous for signing the likes of Nirvana and Soundgarden? pic.twitter.com/tsUEjFs05w

— Kyle Buchanan (@kylebuchanan) November 22, 2023

I liked this a lot, kind of surprised to see so many negative opinions in this thread. I laughed out loud several times. The way the narration is in contradiction with what is actually happening in the movie was a source of much amusement.

i think this movie has been fucked by being a netflix release (ie not getting a real theatrical run) and it being more of a satire than an action movie

Saw this in a pretty full theater in late October, and laughing together was definitely part of the experience. And of course it looked/sounded great on a big screen, even though the close-quarters fight was in murky half-darkness. (Saw May December a few weeks later at the same theater.)

It felt like Fincher trying to make a Soderbergh movie and failing. Soderbergh's pulp movies (Haywire is an obvious antecedent, but Side Effects and Kimi too) leave this thing in the dust.

Enjoyed The Killer while it was happening, but as far as auteur hitman movies prefer and remember Haywire and Collateral more.

Also FYI for Chicago ILXors: the restaurant/hotel with Tilda Swinton and its surrounding exterior was filmed along the Fox River in St. Charles, IL.

My own private challops, because I work in a field adjacent to this, but I see Fincher talking about 'Sound Design' a lot and how if you're ignoring it and not somehow maximizing its potential then you are a bad filmmaker and should be destroyed. I do not agree and I don't know why this one is so overdone, perhaps the lack of dialogue.

Scene after scene of field recordings, textures, and foley, all of the backgrounds about 30% too loud, and all of them screaming 'Hey check out the exquisite detail in all these subtle layers and perspective changes, aren't we fabulous and meticulous?' When really, imho, it's just distracting and hokey.

I just wanna watch a film, not listen to an expensive sound library, it's like how the ambience in Mad Men was pumped way up because they'd put so much time into period typing pool sounds and the exact right type of car engines down on the street and somehow it just ended up sounding like a jet engine.

I know I sound like a niche crazy person hating on overcooked/overthought sound design, so forgive me but things like Fassbender sticking in his earbuds with this daft and unnecessary, inside-the-head scuffing, it was a complete eyeroll.

And what's sad is I didn't even notice any of that (watched the movie on a laptop wearing Sony MDR 7506 studio headphones). Probably because I've been deafened by the gunfire in Michael Mann movies.

I just wanna watch a film, not listen to an expensive sound library

I'm rewatching House of Cards right now, and ditto, I'm finding it annoying that every time there's a scene at the Washington Herald office, they make sure they have phones ringing in the background--almost mathematically spaced out every few seconds--for the sake of authenticity. Once you notice something like that it's impossible to unnotice, and it becomes a distraction.

(Which is a Fincher project too, come to think of it.)

XXP - Oddly, I watched it on my Macbook with the same model of headphones.

https://images.thedirect.com/media/photos/4arlisshoward.png
https://cst.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/8f0d746/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1905x2540+953+0/resize/720x960!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fthumbor%2FzYCwlJ4gHypjPKDS5Od66jxJon8%3D%2F0x0%3A3810x2540%2F3810x2540%2Ffilters%3Afocal%281867x862%3A1868x863%29%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fuploads%2Fchorus_asset%2Ffile%2F22828148%2Fmerlin_100313174.jpg

WWJWBD

A parody, cut from last night's Saturday Night Live for time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrG0NHLa0zE

so i havent read the thread and i liked this but is the presumption that fincher just thinks that professional killer is a very silly job probably filled with deeply unserious people

i note immediately that people hated the voiceover but enjoyed swintons bowie impersonation

hm

i thought, re the voiceover, that every time he repeated it he fucked up/didnt follow one step earlier each time

also, he went home after a botched job but the damage we/he cared about was already done

but

our other two killers /also/ went home after their botched job and our lawyer/secretary went to work after their botched job and nobody even....changed routine even a little bit....?

admittedly ive no idea why bother visiting billionaire at the end and then not killing him tbh

but in a movie about a guy who constantly reiterates process and principle and les regles du jeu, i really doubt the guy who made zodiac has put all that out there for a face value ilx movie thread analysis to be "lord he just made a movie about a cool hitman"

lazy thread 4/10 would not read again

also

someone watched it and _missed Tilda's slip and dagger_

i mean tbh lads im not sure at all at all at all

and lastly

My own private challops, because I work in a field adjacent to this

this post promised a lot but it turns out the poster did not mean contract killing

We are perhaps simple creatures

Taking this opportunity to say darraghmac otm.

deems have you ever watched Dexter

nor will i