God Has Abandoned Us: U.S. Politics November 2023

Good morning!:

People close to the former president say they are seeking out a different type of lawyer committed to his “America First” ideology and willing to endure the personal and professional risks of association with Mr. Trump. They want lawyers in federal agencies and in the White House who are willing to use theories that more establishment lawyers would reject to advance his cause. This new mind-set matches Mr. Trump’s declaration that he is waging a “final battle” against demonic “enemies” populating a “deep state” within the government that is bent on destroying America.

Where’s the gag order?

Dickerson on Trump on Colbert last night didn't really give me much hope for the future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA0VEa2uQj0

God's abandoned us
God's abandoned us
God's abandoned us
from a distance

The actual lyrics are just as desparing.

Toot toot toot, toot diddelyada, toot diddelyada
Toot, toot, he blows it eight to the bar
He can't blow a note if the bass and guitar isn't with him
And the company jumps when he plays reveille

I couldn’t read that NYT article due to paywall but based on Alfred’s excerpt there’s something I don’t get: what makes Trump and his people think a lawyer like that will fare any better in court? I get that a lawyer like that might be effective on TV but it seems to me that judges won’t react so kindly.

Yeah, surrounding yourself with yes men doesn't work if everyone else still says no.

he just wants the yes men. he doesn't care about the results.

its gotta be hard to find good henchmen these days. trump always wanted that gotti-style servitude from people without having to pay for it. which makes it a lot harder.

I couldn’t read that NYT article due to paywall but based on Alfred’s excerpt there’s something I don’t get: what makes Trump and his people think a lawyer like that will fare any better in court? I get that a lawyer like that might be effective on TV but it seems to me that judges won’t react so kindly.

― tobo73,

I guess they're relying on endless litigation; meanwhile the battle goes on.

Where’s the gag order?

making this the new "where's the tax returns"

he just wants the yes men. he doesn't care about the results.

it's an ego strategy not a legal strategy

yeah, its his mental state. just tell him what he wants to hear because that is all he wants to hear.

someone should convince trump to preemptively freeze his head in a block of ice, for the future.

Though I get the sense he's tried that at least once already.

That article in full:
If Trump Wins, His Allies Want Lawyers Who Will Bless a More Radical Agenda

One of the many bizarre aspects of the way this is playing out is how Trump's (I believe genuine) messianic complex is converging with his essential nature as a grifter.

Lmao

New Quinnipiac Poll with some big 👀 on RFK Jr.:
- Biden 39%
- Trump 36%
- RFK Jr. 22%

Kennedy has a plurality of independent voters (!!!): 36% for RFK Jr., 31% for Trump, 30% Biden. https://t.co/o6T1ZCngsM

— Alex Seitz-Wald (@aseitzwald) November 1, 2023

always wonder if the 'independent voters' really know what that means

'independent voters' are really republicans and libertarians (other republican voters) in disguise

they’re republicans who do their own research

So I see there's an attempt by senate Republicans going on to push through all these military promotions that have been held up by Sen. Tuberville. What exactly is needed to overcome his hold? Is it something like a 2/3 vote or can he just unilaterally stop this forever?

I read about something called a 'standing order resolution', and oddly, it was actually supposed to be Sinema's idea... an unusual procedural move, not a rules change

who actually would benefit from an RFK spoiler? he'd pull Biden voters but I guess he'd pull Trumpers too.

I don't think it's clear at this point

I think he would pull more from Trump voters, but Cornel West on the other hand...

What are they even doing, is it just to garner money and fame? At least Dean Phillips is running in the democratic primary so we can all laugh at him as a joke candidate

West and Kennedy are unhinged, insane narcissists

Good thing they don't stand a chance of winning.

that's not the problem, though

i didn't take many Nader votes to screw the pooch for Gore

RFK would absolutely pull more Trump voters

yeah, he's cousins to JFK Jr. who is part of 'the plan'

RFJ Jr. terrifies Trump's people.

he'd pull Biden voters but I guess he'd pull Trumpers too.

There has been no indication that RFK Jr. would pull one single Democratic vote. He would, however, draw pretty deeply from the crazy end of the Trump voter pool.

you haven't met my lifelong Democrat voting stepfather, a big RFK fan

it is a real fucking problem

RFK Jr. probably would get some votes that otherwise would go to Biden, but the more exposure people have to him I think the fewer of those votes he gets. Right now some number of people answering the surveys are just reacting to the name. On the other hand, he can pull some loons who know all about his anti-vaxx and general conspiracy shit and love it, and a lot more of those are people who would otherwise vote for Trump if at all. Or that's how it seems.

Not yet. This story's a couple weeks old, but it tracks with what I've heard anecdotally:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/10/rfk-jr-independent-bid-could-do-trump-more-damage-than-biden

xpost to sleeve

I sure hope so

Then God has abandoned us.

lol waht, I was agreeing w/yr article!

I mean, obviously god has foresaken us since the breakdown of the bicameral mind ;)

what if God has abandoned us

https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780802023063-us.jpg

RFK's support is going to be a nonentity - he's weird and creepy, his only positives are (last) name recognition and anti-vaxxer cred. The former doesn't go far (if more of those people start to see him speaking) and the latter will fall back into the Trump camp assuming Big Don doesn't pull an Elvis on the shitter before next November.

I think that's true, my stepfather was a big OG Kennedy fan and that's where the uncritical support comes from, largely

(he may have changed his mind about all this, my last convo on it was in June)

support is

I think they've learned their lesson

Good god, I hope so. It feels like the pertinent people in the media (e.g. reporters, editors, producers) have been "having a conversation" about how to cover Trump ever since he won the nomination in 2016, even as Trump has consistently framed them as enemies of the people, but they have coveted their reputations for fairness, objectivity, and respect for democratic norms above the need to hammer away daily at the existential danger Trump poses. They've constantly waited in vain for the Democratic Party to do that job, so they could duck it, but when the Democratic Party has tried to put that message out they've failed to amplify it.

I'm not concerned that the 14th amendment case will encourage Republicans to try the same thing. I just think it's a bad way to try to win the election and gives credence to the idea that it's all rigged. It's important to have the election be as straightforward as possible.

There is no Biden victory that the GOP will not call rigged, it's pointless to make that part of your calculus for any campaign strategy.

on the other hand who cares about giving creedence to something they're going to believe no matter what you do

I think if you can get a conviction on the insurrection charge it's worth trying! people who have actively tried to overthrow the government shouldn't be allowed to be on the ballot! if you don't like it run a better candidate!

f. hazel otm, they are not acting in good faith, the social contract has already been broken, gloves off, all the tools, etc

Edsall's one of the good ones.

This is kind of a funny thing to say about someone whose columns tend to consist mostly of block quotes of political and social scientists and research reports, but yeah, good piece. (Tbc, I actually appreciate what Edsall does quite a bit, but have very little sense of him as a person.)

No idea what he's like as a person. As for the column: I don't mind collated columns.

I appreciate Edsall’s columns, tho sometimes the very subject of his columns seems to betray certain viewpoints.

wild stuff

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/22/indian-americans-caste-discrimination-newsom-veto/

(ctrl-f "vice president harris", among many other things)

yes - read that the other day and had to re-read sections over and over to make sure i wasn't misunderstanding. the argument of the wealthy indian-americans seems to be "don't say caste"

Detractors of caste anti-discrimination laws — including many Indian American big-money donors and political power players — say the bills could fuel rather than curtail discrimination against South Asians, particularly Indian Hindus, because they are most often associated with caste hierarchy. They argue that the measures could falsely characterize all Hindus in America as inherently biased against members of their own community. They also said the laws could make people who belong to an upper caste — or whose surnames suggest they do — targets of frivolous lawsuits.

“They are trying to divide us among different castes and different classes,” said Romesh Japra, who founded the Americans 4 Hindus super PAC and recruited Bhutoria and other Democratic Indian American donors to fight the bill. “We came here to this country, to America, and we did not think that we’ll have to face this again.”

Japra said that during his 50 years in the United States, he has never experienced or seen any caste discrimination. “It doesn’t exist,” he said.

Ananya Chakravarti, a Georgetown University history professor and expert on the caste system, said this is a common refrain from wealthy American Hindus who are not from a lower caste.

“It would be a lot like White people standing up and saying they have never experienced race discrimination,” said Chakravarti, who is from an upper caste. “It’s literally a case of the upper caste trying to speak for the entire community.”

wondering how much of this is the supposed psudo-"moderate" beliefs of the interviewees as stated, and how much of it is far right ultra-nationalist stuff.

yeah I am a tiny bit sympathetic to the idea that the US judicial system might be bad at adjudicating this issue, but if your only response to "then what should we do about caste discrimination?" is "it doesn't exist" your stance is clear

for some reason I stopped feeling the need to wonder about the backgrounds of the "don't talk about caste" people after reading a few quotes

I do appreciate seeing Shri Thanedar's amazing hairpiece in one of the pictures, though

the stories from that guy's office are pretty ridiculous

At a glance it seems like this federal definition of existing civil rights protections could be understood to encompass caste, particularly the "ancestry" part: "Discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin includes discrimination based on a person’s actual or perceived race, color, national origin, ethnicity, or ancestry."

That was Newsom's argument for vetoing, but afaict the problem is that "ancestry" in that list is subordinate to "race, color, or national origin" and is therefore intended to add greater specificity to the concept of racial discrimination, which is not relevant when the case involves people of the same national origin, race, color, etc discriminating against each other (but ianal).

That said, iirc the article mentioned building up "case law" to establish a legal basis for caste discrimination, and I would guess it would draw on that language?

Yeah, it's not explicitly covered so you would need a judge to decide. It's tricky. A caste is not exactly an ethnicity or a group of national origin, but it seems like it has enough attributes — being heritable, particularly — that it would qualify. But you'd need the right case to prove discrimination with.

Is this thing on?

Anyway, I read this, and I'll sleep worse tonight as a result
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

good morning!

WHERE ARE THOSE TAX RETURNS???

oh, we got them, showed that he was a bad person, who knew?

Day 1 A.K.

Meantime

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/30/complaint-filed-against-florida-gop-chair-00129343

(The URL is rather anodyne given the details.)

December will be quite a month in Florida GOP circles, is about all I can come up with in response to that right now

WTF is up with this DeSantis/Newsom charade? very cringe

If I was Newsom, I would just keep referring to Florida's leprosy outbreaks

You probably could pay me enough to watch that, but it would have to be a lot.

i have no idea why newsom is wasting his time on this.

Auditioning for president in 2028?

like there is going to be an election in 2028

I give it at least a 50/50 chance

if Newsom runs in 2028, it will make another year where I refuse to vote for president. Loathsome racist technocrat.

osamathumbsup.jpg

byeeeee

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/george-santos-expulsion-vote-12-1-23/index.html

He'll always be a Congressman in my heart

Peace out, whoever you were

We are all George Santos.

Identity scam-wise

This interview is long but worth reading. William Kristol, former GW Bush toady turned anti-Trump crusader, interviews reporter Jonathan Karl about what a second Trump term might actually entail, based on who's gonna be part of it and what they hope to achieve. It's bad, folks.

Thanks, unperson.

Yeah, thanks. I don’t think most people are taking this seriously enough.

Bill Kristol has a track record of being spectacularly wrong about everything, but he’s just the interviewer here obvs.

using wikipedia to remind myself what an abominable ghoul Bill Kristol is and "Not to be confused with Billy Crystal." is the first line lmao

Billy, son of Jack

Bill, son of Irving

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnAGwA9zmI8

Michael Cohen doing live shows now, what a country:

Michael Cohen Live & In-Person Discussing Everything You Want To Hear With Special Guest Katie Phang

https://render.vivenu.com/image?url=https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/yt-s3/bbc728db-7bcc-4e5f-b06c-50629166878f.jpg&width=800&height=600

https://citywinery.com/new-york-city/events/michael-cohen-live-in-person-discussing-everythi-gddpm2?

i hate that the project 2025 stuff is extremely concerning and that it's called 'project 2025'

US Politics, December 2023: "I love this place. For me, it’s like a fever dream."