pronunciation

Thank you,

Gregory Di Prinzio

Of course I've never heard of him and have no idea even what country he could be from. Or she. And I can barely pronounce my own name properly. So I could be less than accurate.

Is it really "loose" Suzy? I can see you folks are a bunch of kidders. I'm not even sure if Martin has really never heard of her. If someone (who has heard of her) can tell me definitely, I would be most appreciative.

All the best,
Gregory Di Prinzio

Best,
Gregory Di Prinzio

By the way, what is this place? I got here by quite a circuitous route; happily, along the way I learned how to pronounce Ngugi wa Thiong'o, Gyorgy Lukacs, Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak and others. Is this some college site or something?

If the surname is French too, my guess is more like Loose Ee-ree-zhe-ray, but my French teacher used to openly point and laugh at me in lessons, so once more I am well worth ignoring.

Thanks for the straight-answer response.

Like you, I thought LOO-chay, except with stress on the first syllable. I was unsure about the last name. I think she is Belgian.

I hate to read someone's work and not know how to say their name--it's annoying. She has some interesting things to say; you might check her out. I ran across an allusion to her while studying the poet, Wallace Stevens.

As for your latest response---that was really funny! Thanks for the chuckle.

Best,
Gregory Di Prinzio

she is french

gayatri chakravorty spivak has a top name but she is a disappointing writer-thinker i fear

Well, while we're at it----what do you think of her ideas?

On a related subject: Have you ever had this conversation with your gilrfriend or boyfriend wherein it is debated who has contributed more to the corpus of human knowledge and art, i.e., which gender has contributed most, qualitatively and quantitatively to art, science, philosophy etc...? I always get from my girlfriend an argument that runs along the lines of: because of men, the times, the culture---women were unable to contribute as much as men. This is a poor way of saying it but I think you understand. Of course there were great women artists. I think of Camille Claudel, Virginia Woolf, Dickinson, Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, Artemesia, etc... I guess what I'm asking is: How do you account for (what I consider an indisputable fact) the greatest artistic, scientific, or any other kind of accomplishments coming from men? I don't for a second believe that if a woman had come up with musical compositions to rival Mozart she would have somehow been suppressed or ignored. Who are the greatest painters, writers, sculptors, philosophers, scientists of all time? Men? I would say so. Is this all sophomoric? I confess I've just come from a margarita party and am a little tipsy. What I tell my girlfriend is that I believe that nothing really stands in the way of women now and that I think they have a bit of catching up to do. Of course, I'm not aware of all the great things women have contributed to human knowledge and art. I try to learn. I spend a lot of time in poetry workshops and am a poet myself. I know one thing, women are writing a lot of good poetry these days.

I'll probably regret this tomorrow,

Gregory Di Prinzio

And yes, I think we'll all agree: asking why the cultural production of women hasn't been as large of that of men is like asking why more Russians haven't been pop stars in Cambodia -- the odds of the culture have just been stacked against it. I was telling Josh the other night how we publish a series of works by early modern women: they all consist of bored Italian nuns writing books about how maybe it wasn't the worst thing in the universe for women to write books. When you have to spend four or five centuries establishing the fact that you should even be acknowledged as potential creators of cultural products, it's understandable if you wind up a little skimpy on the actual creation itself.

What sort of evens the score, if you look at it right, is feminism: surely the idea that 50% of the Earth's population have something intellectually valuable to contribute is a revolution of epic proportions.

Hello Martin,

Your first point is irrefutable.

Your second point seems an oversimplification. Are you saying that women did not affirm the aesthetic beauty of male artistic accomplishments? Or was it that women knew all along that Rembrandt really knew nothing about painting, Bach's organ work was sloppy and that Doestoyevsky was a hack, but just kept quiet in order not to make waves? My point is that if it was set by men---it was affirmed by women, many times by imitation. Did Camille Claudel (yes, I know her story) think Rodin a competent sculptor? Did she think his work accomplished, beautiful---of course. Ask any women who picks up a pen and attempts to write anything, who the greatest writer in the history of man is; if they're honest they will say Shakespeare. Am I missing the point? Every woman I've ever read in poetry, when asked about their influences rattles off the same names that everyone has assessed as being great: preponderantly male. I sometimes get the feeling that they're being disingenuous when they throw in a female influence, as if they're kowtowing to the feminist movement. You know, there have been great artists that were female, but honestly, not many are revolutionary, not many push the envelope. For instance, (poetry is my subject) take Edna St. Vincent Millay, her sonnets---now don't get me wrong, they're good---but they're not better than Edwin Arlington Robinson's. Now they both wrote around the same time, a time when women surely had access to pen and paper, and yet.... Oh, I hear you----sure it's a bit arbitrary, my opinion, that is, but I feel pretty sure more people would agree with me than disagree. But ask yourself: Cassatt or Vermeer? Look at, The Bath by Cassatt---the women's legs are disproportionately long! She looks like Lurch's wife. (I'm making a funny, only half-seriously).

Was any new movement in art, e.g., Romanticism, Realism, Impressionism, Expressionism, Cubism, etc..., started by a woman? Movements in art follow movements in philosophy, but alas, no women philosophers either. Please take me to school if I'm ignorant.

Like I said concerning poetry---I agree with your last point.

If we take only the twentieth century I think we can set aside the suppression excuse; any woman who wanted to write, Crime and Punishment, I think might have. If you look at Poetry , a Magazine of Verse, which began around 1912 or so, the editor was Harriet Monroe. Amy Lowell had no problem getting a lot of work published. No, I don't think that argument is as strong in the twentieth century. When women did get access to whatever instruments that men were using to create art, they never quite blew us away. Ok, now I falling into bathos. I like this caht we're having and would like to continue later. I'd like to go see the new Bond movie now.

Bye,

thanks for the welcome Donna,

when I figure out how to do that e-mail thing I will,

Nabisco: "have something intellectually valuable to contribute" Yes, something, but how does it compare to what men have and will contribute? Who is the female Einstein, Hemingway, Yeats, Planck, Picasso, Beethoven, Darwin, Watson and Crick?

John: I'm familiar with those names now, but haven't read nearly enough to discuss them. I'll keep in mind that Julia Kristeva (kris-teh-vuh) comes with your recommendation.

debatable, bye

But Franklin persisted on the DNA project. J. D. Bernal called her X-ray photographs of DNA, "the most beautiful X-ray photographs of any substance ever taken." Between 1951 and 1953 Rosalind Franklin came very close to solving the DNA structure.

SHE WAS BEATEN to publication by Crick and Watson in part because of the friction between Wilkins and herself.

At one point, Wilkins showed Watson one of Franklin's crystallographic portraits of DNA. When he saw the picture, the solution became apparent to him, and the results went into an article in Nature almost immediately. Franklin's work did appear as a supporting article in the same issue of the journal.

Really gotta go now.

(Make of that what you will.)

(also di prinzio = the highbrow "ilm guy who hates chicks with guitars". discuss)

This is the funniest thread for, like, three days.

Ahn-a-ees Nin is how I say it.

Bond sold out, damn Fandango. Passing on Eight Mile. Anyway, isn't it annoying when people in movie theaters act like they're in their living rooms? That's probably another thread.

Anyway, I haven't read, "To the Lighthouse" so I can't make a comparison. I have read "Jacob's Room" and "The Voyage Out". As a satirist I don't think she compares with Huxley(A.), certainly not as an all around writer, definitely not as a thinker/visionary. Neither of the books by woolf I 've read compares with, "Point Counter Point", imho. I think Huxley is my all time fav.

"Crime and Punishment" is one of my all time favorites and I consider it brilliant.

If that's a fact Phil---I'll buy it. It supports my observation. Women, having even lower t. levels than low level men must be even less intelligent.

I know, Jones, you guys are kidders. Actually, in the guitar department I prefer Al Dimeola. Come to think of it---where are the virtuoso girl guitar slingers? Yngwie Malmsteen vs. Lita Ford? (Who the hell are they? I hear the young folks say.) My girlfriend's getting a kick out of your responses: lots of, "see, see---that's what I say". I tell her you guys just haven't thought about it enough. :)

Nabisco: I think I do believe artistic talent is inborn, or talent period.I think you could have taken Mozart when he was two and locked him away in Alcatraz and he would have been the best damn jailhouse harmonica player you ever saw. What about when someone is taught and encouraged and yet still doesn't produce? How many women have to go through MFA programs before we see another "Hamlet". Does Ghandi count for a peasant? Funny how well Barry Bonds can hit a ball. When Mozart's writing symphonies at seven you can't put too much on encouragement and training. Sure he was trained from birth, so are a lot of folks, and what results is they can play a piano pretty damn well---but that's a far cry from composing, creating. Here, I'll hand you one. Are idiot savants more often men or women?

I'm going to think about what you've said.

Best,
Greg

Here's a good one: (h)ey-layn seek-sue Helene Cixous

Wha...?

its so cute when people sign their names on their posts!

Maybe it's the way people like you talk about art that puts me off. As if Dostoevsky actually IS somehow more helpful than someone who listens to you when you talk.

oh yeah, dostoyevski sucks (regardless of how one pronounces his name)

all my opinion, of course.

it's just an awkward-ass word anywhere but in writing

No, it's an alternate dimension populated by bored geniuses and assorted drunks.
― kate, Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:17 AM (fifteen years ago)

presage is right up there with pedant for me
presage also sounds better as a noun in spanish (presagio)

Jim Croce.

Isn't it close to the wool manipulation thing except the second syllable sound is a bit rougher? so croachay rather than crochet?

If it's pronounced the Italian way, yes. I've never heard anyone speak his name though.

CROH-chee

Autechre

I saw them a few years ago, discussed them with the guy who cuts my hair, and still have no clear idea how I am supposed to say this out loud

awe-tecker

stress on first syllable?

that's what i thought but honestly had no idea

AWE-duh-curr

recently at work we were discussing words that you pronounced incorrectly (or idiosyncratically, as it were) for so long that even though you learned the received pronunciation and use it, there is always a slight pause that betrays what is etched too deep in your brain to ever overwrite... for me, the word "camaraderie" which is more of a broken bridge than a mispronunciation, unless I'm vigilant and can mentally picture "comradery" before the word crosses my lips. by broken bridge I mean a word that I often read in books but never learned to pronounce, and will derail any spoken sentence it appears in and send it into the muddy river. one of our work studies always crashes and burns on "bilingual" which is ironic because she is... bilingual. so she always says "I speak two languages" instead!

xpost yes stress on first syllable (I think!)

i mispronounced the word "pedant" recently (after the person i was talking to released some nuclear-grade pedantry) and idk if i will ever forgive myself for the error
more likely, i will never call anyone a pedant out loud again because it will always remind me of this time, when I lobbed an assault on pedantic behavior by mispronouncing "pedant"
¡¡¡¡¡the shame!!!!

to the accused pedant's credit, he did not correct me
for that i will always be grateful and also ashamed because clearly i called a kind person a pedant

so i get where you are coming from re: broken bridges

I think I lean on pedantic and pedantry due to uncertainty about how to pronounce pedant!

same

i normally do too but it was heat-of-the-moment and i was (mildly) pissed -- i regret not maintaining my chill and using the words i knew how to pronounce correctly! oh well.

Aw tech ray

You’re welcome

I always thought the emphasis was on the second syllable! Most people I knew pronounced it in a quasi-French way but then I read that the last syllable was supposed to be pronounced "er" like in "theatre" or "centre".

It’s ray not er

Weidenbaum: You could use your human names, but you chose something with “tech” in the center of it. How do you pronounce it? How do you pronounce Autechre?

Booth: awe-teh-ker.

Weidenbaum: A million Internet debates just came to a halt.

Booth: That’s how we pronounce it.

mispronouncing pedant in that context is kind of a genius troll move

the word "camaraderie" which is more of a broken bridge than a mispronunciation, unless I'm vigilant and can mentally picture "comradery" before the word crosses my lips.

I'm a bit confused tbh. Am I reading this wrong? Camaraderie isn't pronounced "comradery".

Also how are people mispronouncing pedant? Pee-dant or something?

Half expecting to have to go to the Things you are shockingly old when you learnt them thread now.

I still feel a strange mixture of regret and awe for the series of emails I had with a friend and former colleague a few years ago when I unseriously drew attention to a grammar mistake in an email he'd sent round, and in his light-hearted response he made a v similar grammar mistake, which I ofc felt obliged to correct in the same manner, and then with the next two responses he made similar mistakes, and I felt trapped in a death spiral and I couldn't work out if he was trolling me and I stopped enjoying it almost immediately and in the end I think we both felt we had been defeated

kind of wondering how Ross feels right now

he never teh-ker

Camaraderie isn't pronounced "comradery".

haha, it is when I say it! I paste over the pronunciation for comradery when I'm talking because A. they mean the same thing and B. if I don't my mouth will crash on "camaraderie". this is to illustrate that there are some words you mispronounce, learn the preferred pronunciation and decide to use it, and it seems to replace the old pronunciation without much trouble. but we were talking at work about how we all seem to have a handful of words where the old way cannot be erased, and you are forever performing a sort of clunky, halting mental replacement in your mind every time you say the word aloud.

Feel what I feel when I’m feeling (in the sunshine )

Thanks for asking tracer. Don’t know if it was sarcasm but ya know

Wait now I'm confused about how to say pedant.

Wait now I'm confused about how to say pedant.

yeah I'm not sure how to pronounce ILXor either

hehehe

mispronouncing pedant in that context is kind of a genius troll move

― ogmor, Friday, May 4, 2018 4:39 AM (fourteen hours ago) Bookmark

i am choosing to see it this way, thank you for the reframing

also there is another way to pronounce camaraderie aside from "comraderie"?!

yeah I too am struggling w/ this one. How else would you say it?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedant

Camaraderie is pretty phonetic ca ma ra derie

The Spanish word for comrade is "camarada" it's basically that with rie on the end

but what would be an alternate pronunciation?

oh I see maybe dropping the second syllable

pedants who pedon’t

cam vs cahm?

I’m confused about why people are confused

Of course there’s an alternative pronunciation than “comraderie”, it’s “camaraderie” - unless you pronounce “comrade” as “camarad” they’re pretty distinct

on the day that's in it

yanks why do ye keep saying python like that

puh THAWN?

Python and On and On

its really strange imo

I get to fight the lie-on!

it's probably because pythin' is Southern American English slang for masturbating

cot-tawn eye joe

do ye wanna see me python