since a decent amount of discussion was occurring in the Annihilation thread and not everyone might know that it was being discussed there, felt it best to move to its own thread. discussion collected below...
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early reviews seem generally positive so far... I'm dialing up some cautious optimism and will try to catch it this weekend
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:28 PM bookmarkflaglink
this is going to be another one of those amazing sci-fi megabombs that lasts like 3 weeks in the theater isn't it
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:32 PM bookmarkflaglink
The poster and the font and Portman all make me think this is some kind of Phantom Menace sequel with M16s instead of lasers guns
― calstars, Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:36 PM bookmarkflaglink
Gotta say, that movie title sells itself in this moment in time.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:37 PM bookmarkflaglink
Queen Amidala in "Stalker 2018"
― Rabbit Control (Latham Green), Friday, February 23, 2018 4:10 PM bookmarkflaglink
Exactly
― calstars, Friday, February 23, 2018 5:21 PM bookmarkflaglink
Queen Amidala’s double in Predator 2049: Return to Tatooine
― calstars, Friday, February 23, 2018 5:22 PM bookmarkflaglink
Endor, that is
― calstars, Friday, February 23, 2018 5:23 PM bookmarkflaglink
If the book is a combo of Roadside Picnic & Mountains of Madness, I’m curious how much of that will translate to the screen.
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Saturday, February 24, 2018 7:47 AM bookmarkflaglink
Would prefer Marble Madness
― calstars, Saturday, February 24, 2018 7:54 AM bookmarkflaglink
Saw this last night. I really liked it. It’s a verrrrrrrry loose adaptation but it does capture the general atmosphere of the book.
There’s a lot of stuff in here that is going to reward repeat viewings.
― The Spilling of a Sacred Beer (latebloomer), Saturday, February 24, 2018 9:37 AM bookmarkflaglink
no uk cinema release wtf
― lana del boy (ledge), Saturday, February 24, 2018 3:50 PM bookmarkflaglink
wait waht
― NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, February 24, 2018 3:58 PM bookmarkflaglink
apparently this is being released only in the US, Canada, and China, with other rights already sold to Netflix
― Brad C., Saturday, February 24, 2018 4:04 PM bookmarkflaglink
Man this guy loves Tarkovsky. Liberally rips off Stalker & Solaris in almost equal measure (mostly Stalker, but the final scene & the whole idea of being able/unable to love a simulacrum of your dead spouse- I mean give me a break). Still, you could do worse when ripping people off. I liked it a lot, and it had a fairly rowdy matinee audience totally gripped and silent, and there was no moaning or groaning when the credits rolled without a lot of questions answered or threads resolved. But having seen Solaris and Stalker, I'm not left with much to think about. Garland not only took the exact imagery of those films, sometimes down to specific shots (underwater seaweed just like the opening shot of Solaris), but all of the ideas are Tarkovsky's. So I'm not sure what to make of it, glad it's out there, it's very well made and paced and it's nice that there's more "intelligent" sci-fi out there that could be successful (posters and advertising and the shit title - i know it's based on a novel - made it look like some Hunger Games shit), but... what's the point if you've seen Solaris and Stalker?
― flappy bird, Sunday, February 25, 2018 4:59 PM bookmarkflaglink
In fairness the Stalker homage is baked into the book
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, February 25, 2018 5:12 PM bookmarkflaglink
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I saw "dude takes 3rd term, is obvious scumbag for bombing 'his' civilians" within the first 3rd of the movie and that was enough to put aside any claims of 'political' cowardness. They're clear good guys and bad guys inferred by this movie, and they're not very controversial claims of whose on which side. The parallels of what Yahu's doing in Gaza and how journalists are being treated by that kind of government.... you know, I really didn't think this film was being subtle about its politics when it chooses to address politics (like, 2% of the movie, thankfully).
― H.P, Sunday, April 21, 2024 2:44 AM bookmarkflaglink
Maybe Andrew should have set the movie in Australia so Americans could enjoy it
― H.P, Sunday, April 21, 2024 2:45 AM bookmarkflaglink
*Alex. Brainfart
― H.P, Sunday, April 21, 2024 2:45 AM bookmarkflaglink
I think this movie will grow in appreciation as years go on, however the future of the country goes
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, April 21, 2024 3:20 AM bookmarkflaglink
The Texas-California alliance sounds implausible if the movie is meant to take place in the world we live in now. But one thing we know is that Kirsten Dunst's character built her reputation on photos of "the Antifa Massacre" that she took when she was in college. Assuming the character is the same age as Dunst (41), this event happened roughly 20 years before the events of the movie.
So the movie is either set at least 20 years in the future, enough time for political realities to shift (less than 30 years ago, states like Louisiana, Kentucky, Missouri, and West Virginia voted Democratic in a presidential election). Or it's set in an alternate-reality present or near future that doesn't neatly map onto the real world.
It doesn't really matter because Garland isn't really interested in worldbuilding. But, as Max points out, that doesn't mean that the movie can't still work effectively as a pulp thriller:
"Ultimately the movie seems much less concerned with making a particular political or moral statement (or even exploring the politics or morals of its fictional scenario) than it does with efficiently and energetically moving its truck of adrenaline junkies from one suspenseful action set-piece to the next. It’s like finding a 1967 alternate-history novel published by Del Rey with the tagline 'They Crossed a War Zone Between New York and D.C.--to Photograph the President’s Murder!""
https://maxread.substack.com/p/what-is-the-civil-war-in-civil-war
― jaymc, Sunday, April 21, 2024 9:46 AM bookmarkflaglink
Del Rey Books was established in 1977, but ok.
― Ippei's on a bummer now (WmC), Sunday, April 21, 2024 10:05 AM bookmarkflaglink
Not familiar with that publisher; I was imagining a mass-market paperback published by Bantam or Signet.
― jaymc, Sunday, April 21, 2024 10:14 AM bookmarkflaglink
Other than that, I thought the essay was fine. Still not sure if I'll see the movie.
― Ippei's on a bummer now (WmC), Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:12 AM bookmarkflaglink
i think it probably works a lot better if you don’t know much about it before going in but i guess you’re past that point
it’s a very intense experience
my only knock on it is that the last 20 minutes play out a little like a videogame fantasy.. i was also confused about what seemed like [show hidden text] on lee’s part. why does she stay up like that? clearly something has changed in her, but it feels out of character even so
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:37 AM bookmarkflaglink
Tracer OTM. This film isn't trying to be a satire about current US politics. It could jist as well have been set in Australia or any other country and ultimately been the same
I agree, it's an incredibly well produced film. Every helicopter, round of ammo, explosion, feels real. And when Dunst melts down towards the end, I felt it. Enjoyed the characters and the acting a lot too
― your mom goes to limgrave (dog latin), Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:43 AM bookmarkflaglink
i recall that scene Tracer alludes to as being in slow motion, so I don't think she's staying up for very long. i could be wrong
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, April 21, 2024 12:08 PM bookmarkflaglink
the way they filmed it it felt deliberate to me. [show hidden text]
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Sunday, April 21, 2024 12:13 PM bookmarkflaglink
Don't forget, there had to be enough time for Jessie to take a few photos of the occasion, for character development reasons
― H.P, Sunday, April 21, 2024 5:57 PM bookmarkflaglink
The Symmetry must be obeyed
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Sunday, April 21, 2024 6:14 PM bookmarkflaglink
(I guess that actor is Brazillian but since the character was from Florida I assumed he was Cuban)
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, April 15, 2024 8:09 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink
lol he sounded Venezuelan to me
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:07 PM bookmarkflaglink
The politics for all the reasons Neanderthal and Tracer Hand mentioned are....explicit. The Texas-California alliance is the odd one, but we've seen any number of convenient political alliances in the last century. When the film does go into equivalences is showing the barbarism of the WF soldiers (is Plemons and his unit one of them? I couldn't tell. I may have missed it). Maybe the anti-faux-Trump forces realized they needed to get as dirty as he did?
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:31 PM bookmarkflaglink
I thought that pulp book line was going to be about this book my mom's old boss co-wrote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Texas-Israeli_War:_1999
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:33 PM bookmarkflaglink
When the film does go into equivalences is showing the barbarism of the WF soldiers (is Plemons and his unit one of them? I couldn't tell. I may have missed it).
no, I think they were simply a militia, who may or may not have supported the President, but were absolutely happy to use the resultant chaos to further their own awful goals.
I thought one of the most interesting scenes was the one with the house and the invisible sniper, and the guys they encountered hunkered down. it's completely unclear, and maybe irrelevant, who is who. When asked what's going on, the answer was "that guy is shooting at us. we are shooting at him".
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:38 PM bookmarkflaglink
Ah, makes sense.
Yeah, that sniper shot (blurring him was a shrewd touch) creeped me out.
I thought for a moment that the shot of the white woman, Latin American man, and Hong Kong reporter in front of Plemons' militia was on-the-nose, but the NPR affiliate reporters I know are a diverse lot.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:41 PM bookmarkflaglink
Stephen McKinley was best in show as he almost always is.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:41 PM bookmarkflaglink
xposts yeah the movie couldn’t really make it clearer that that line of interrogation is not what it’s about
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:42 PM bookmarkflaglink
Stephen McKinley is getting a lot of work these days!
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, April 22, 2024 5:54 PM bookmarkflaglink
I thought that pulp book line was going to be about this book my mom's old boss co-wrote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Texas-Israeli_War:_1999
! Was it Howard Waldrop? Good writer that one...
Tangentially related: The Yankee And Cowboy War a 1976 unified conspiracy theory book by Carl Oglesby (wikipedia link worth reading). Most of the book is standard JFK-Castro-Nixon-Hughes conspiracy fare that was popular in the 70s, but Oglesby is perceptive about shifts in American power and influence and their constant infighting that could legitimately make a California and Texas alliance plausible. How much stuff flows in/out of CA & TX ports right now?
Also the inside cover has the most awesome conspiracy van art ever.
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, April 22, 2024 6:59 PM bookmarkflaglink
So, I watched this thing at my local AMC theater today at 2:35 in one of the smaller screening rooms: 50 seats at most. I'd say it was half-full. It impressed me -- I can count on five people at most on a Monday afternoon.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 22, 2024 7:01 PM bookmarkflaglink
Not Waldrop, Saunders - he gave me a copy when I was 11 or 12 but I don't remember anything about it aside from the title (and later wondering if the guys from Lift to Experience read it). I think he and Waldrop ended up not on good terms over the years.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, April 22, 2024 7:04 PM bookmarkflaglink
Quite fun to see [show hidden text]
― subpost master (wins), Sunday, April 28, 2024 12:26 PM bookmarkflaglink
This movie was extremely intense in the watching, and a day or two later, but I’ve thought about it zero times since. It doesn’t have a conventional structure where the protagonist learns a lesson about themselves or whatever - it’s kind of a shaggy dog story, video-gamey - get from A to B. Or in a lot of ways like a turn-based role-playing game. These different obstacles and enemies, a band of travelers with different skills, various signs of impending dread. I think it is really valuable as a way of confronting war and how fucking horrible it is, and as an intense experience, but beyond that there’s not much to chew on tbh
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Sunday, April 28, 2024 1:21 PM bookmarkflaglink
That's what I went in expecting of this, since 28 Days Later is the only other Garland film I've seen and it gave me exactly that experience: intense and riveting in the moment, but I can barely remember a thing about it.
It also felt credible that war photographers, especially Stewart's character, would be less into taking sides or even figuring out factions, rather than capturing raw footage and letting other reporters sort it out.
As a big fan of Jon Lee Anderson's reportage (in recent years from the Central African Republic, Haiti, and elsewhere), setting a film through this POV especially drew me in.
― paisley got boring (Eazy), Sunday, April 28, 2024 4:26 PM bookmarkflaglink
This movie was extremely intense in the watching, and a day or two later, but I’ve thought about it zero times since. It doesn’t have a conventional structure where the protagonist learns a lesson about themselves or whatever - it’s kind of a shaggy dog story, video-gamey - get from A to B. Or in a lot of ways like a turn-based role-playing game. These different obstacles and enemies, a band of travelers with different skills, various signs of impending dread. I think it is really valuable as a way of confronting war and how fucking horrible it is, and as an intense experience, but beyond that there’s not much to chew on tbh
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Sunday, April 28, 2024 12:21 PM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
idk I think there's a lot there about how exposure to extreme violence quickly warps people's moral & ethical compasses ... its a movie about what its like to become inured to casual violence in a war zone, placed in a Familiar Western Context that forces the western subject to not distance themselves from it as something happening "over there"...It does a good job splitting the difference between the last decade of backsliding towards fascism that makes it feel both totally feasible, and showing something that is w/in recent history totally alien, something ppl envision happening 'way over there'... but the way that ppl are profoundly affected by exposure to extreme violence feels like its underlying theme to me...the way the idea of positioning oneself at some ethical remove seems insane and impossible once the safety nets have been removed from social society.... really smart movie imo
the other thing that's kept me engaged with it is the number of people i see w very stupid opinions about it. some of the most incredibly stupid takes a movie has inspired in years
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, April 29, 2024 12:15 AM bookmarkflaglink
Great post
― H.P, Monday, April 29, 2024 12:16 AM bookmarkflaglink
showing something that is w/in recent history totally alien, something ppl envision happening 'way over there'
yes this is a real achievement i agree
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Monday, April 29, 2024 12:22 AM bookmarkflaglink
"It doesn’t have a conventional structure where the protagonist learns a lesson about themselves or whatever"
i cannot rly believe ppl still hold up this kind of screenwriter 101 template as something to be considered at all tbh
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Monday, April 29, 2024 2:36 AM bookmarkflaglink
great revive
― bae (sic), Monday, April 29, 2024 3:12 AM bookmarkflaglink
Saw this a couple of nights ago. I agree with most of the positive criticism, especially it being deliberately politically vague (though the subtext is clear) so, as Tracer says, you don't get too comfortable. I thought having the journalists as protagonists was very interesting, viewing the action that extra step removed somehow, paradoxically, made it seem more real - I guess because as a civilian it's easier to place yourself in their shoes than it would be if the main characters were combatants; and also being unarmed civilians they are much more vulnerable and it makes the danger much more apparent.
I think, though, the movie undercuts itself somewhat. It wants to show the horrors of war, and the danger and the moral complexity of war reporting. But it also wants to show how exciting it is, and the last section is basically a thrill ride where it's totally clear who we are rooting for.
What do we think about Jessie? It seems to me that from the very start to the very end she is, without exception, a dipshit and a shithead.
― ledge, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:00 AM bookmarkflaglink
I thought she was just a kid
― H.P, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:05 AM bookmarkflaglink
kids can be (or not be) dipshits and shitheads too.
― ledge, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:10 AM bookmarkflaglink
That's true! Though I thought most of her dipshit/shitheadness was directly related to her youth (she's meant to be like 18 or something right? That's the impression I got). Didn't think she was any less or more of a shithead than her two companions. She just had inexperience tacked onto it
― H.P, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:14 AM bookmarkflaglink
22 or 23 they said in the film. I agree she seemed younger but the actress is 25 or 6 and all young people seem like fresh faced babes in arms to me. She showed a complete inability to learn from experience and a complete recklessness and willingness to put herself *and others* in mortal danger.
― ledge, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:22 AM bookmarkflaglink
It was also clear that Lee was motivated by a desire to bring the truth to light, Jessie was an adrenaline junkie (like Joel, to be fair) motivated by a desire to get good looking pictures.
― ledge, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:24 AM bookmarkflaglink
Seemed to me like she was pretty adrenaline averse for all but the car chase + last scene! That was her development. Can't deal with any of the pressure/reality of what she's getting herself into, to then going overboard on the other side and putting everyone in danger because of it. She was a kid who had ideas of war, but had yet to actually meet it in the flesh. A foil to the worn and weary Joel + Lee.
― H.P, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:33 AM bookmarkflaglink
Like yeah, total idiot, but I do think most of her idiocy can be reduced to youthful naivete and inexperience which is an inescapable period of life. She just decided to bring her youthful naivete and inexperience to literal war. But you can blame a drunk and horny Joel for that. I blame him as much as her
― H.P, Monday, April 29, 2024 4:36 AM bookmarkflaglink
it's clear that Joel, Tony and Bohai are dipshits and shitheads too. And that those are not all that they are.
― bae (sic), Monday, April 29, 2024 4:37 AM bookmarkflaglink
yeah i get all that. but her complete failure to learn from experience - and what she does after [show hidden text] - indicate to me that she ain't going to change.
― ledge, Monday, April 29, 2024 5:22 AM bookmarkflaglink
I can't believe no one has commented on how hot Wagner Moura is in this thing
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 29, 2024 5:27 AM bookmarkflaglink
i saw him described as a cut-price (or second-rate or whatever) pedro pascal on a twitter comment about this movie and i had to put the phone down and take a walk
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Monday, April 29, 2024 6:27 AM bookmarkflaglink
"Wagner Moura" is such a quintessentially Brazilian name.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, April 29, 2024 6:37 AM bookmarkflaglink
i had to put the phone down and take a walk
Words to live by
― H.P, Monday, April 29, 2024 6:38 AM bookmarkflaglink
I did for a moment think it was Pedro Pascal in the same that in 2002 it took a couple seconds studying Michael Pitt to realize he wasn't Leo DiCaprio, like, at all.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 29, 2024 7:46 AM bookmarkflaglink
Thread has officially annihilated Annihilation!
― henry s, Monday, April 29, 2024 8:27 AM bookmarkflaglink
deems i mentioned that structure not as something to emulate! just that it’s rare to see a movie these days that doesn’t in some way try for it. it is “effective” in that it’s a shortcut for activating a sense that something has happened, that we have witnessed a change occur
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Monday, April 29, 2024 9:52 AM bookmarkflaglink