The Poppy Bush Interzone: Middlebrow Cinema edition

There are a number of films here that, due to me being the exact age and temperament described above, I enjoy much more than I would endorse, but I genuinely love Once Around--a film I believe only myself and Gene Siskel really flipped out over.

A few I like a lot, several I like just fine, but The Hunt for Red October is my pick, just barely ahead of The Fabulous Baker Boys.

I like Class Action and The Fabulous Baker Boys the best--but nothing nearly as much as I like Broadcast News from'87, which fits your definition perfectly but just misses your window.

Just cause I'm curious about my own stats...

Saw in theatres: Dead Poets Society, Parenthood, Ghost, Presumed Innocent, Green Card, Billy Bathgate, Bugsy, Fried Green Tomatoes, Patriot Games, A League of Their Own, The Bodyguard, A Few Good Men, Scent of a Woman

Rented or saw on cable: Field of Dreams, When Harry Met Sally…, The Fabulous Baker Boys, Dad, Driving Miss Daisy, Always, The Hunt for Red October, Postcards from the Edge, Memphis Belle, Reversal of Fortune, Dances with Wolves, Mr. and Mrs. Bridge, Awakenings, The Russia House, Once Around, Frankie and Johnny, Little Man Tate, For the Boys, The Prince of Tides,
School Ties, Hero, A River Runs Through It, Chaplin

Saw on an airplane: Class Action

There's a chance I saw some of the others, or at least part of them, on cable and just don't remember.

Class Action and The Fabulous Baker Boys are two that I could see myself. My memory is especially fuzzy on the latter.

Before doing this list, I thought Gene Hackman would figure more into this genre than he did.

*see myself revisiting.

I guess this kind of film is the biggest casualty of the Marvel/superhero era. Small films with more artistic ambition (English-language or otherwise) still find a home in the half-rep/half-newer-art-film type of theatre, or at least where I live.

Totally. I suspect the audience for these films has largely migrated over to streaming prestige TV.

(Or maybe they're still out there and I've just lost interest. I saw a surprising number of these ones in a theatre upon release--15-20, probably--and another 10 or so since.)

Nah. The current version of this is things like Yellowstone, The Old Man, and other series, many of which literally feature the stars from era in question. Also, I just remembered that Presumed Innocent was remade as an Apple TV series within the last year or so.

The PBI equivalent to the kind of mainstream arthouse fare you're talking about is things like Howards End or Cinema Paradiso.

I was thinking of things like Parasite, or Drive My Car, or even the new Wes Anderson film--they'll play the rep houses in London and Waterloo. Maybe Wes Anderson still gets a week in the Cineplex, not sure.

...which is to say, a genre that has always existed and continues to do so. These films are, as your earlier comment suggests, artifacts of one of the last times that mainstream American cinema at least considered adults to be one of its nominal audiences.

Gene Hackman's Divorce Series!

Jessica Chastain is the contemporary Queen of this, and has wisely divided her time between it's manifestations on TV and Film.

Are The Babe and Babe the same film?

nah the former is about Babe Ruth (played by John Goodman)

I am very well targeted by this poll. so much so I have no idea what to vote for as I haven't revisited many of these, they felt so formative

Haven't seen either in this century, but would ideally rewatch The Fabulous Baker Boys and Parenthood (which made me tear up at the end on both viewings!) and pick one.

Dances with Wolves is garbage and deserves no votes

When Harry Met Sally… feels a little categorically not-right to me, but maybe because I was too young to see it at the time so caught it later in life. But I do feel like it's the one on the list that younger people would be most likely to watch still

Parenthood probably woulda been my second choice here.

xp

I get this, and I even thought about it before including it. My reason for inclusion: it is as close as one can get to a PBI Woody Allen film without actually including something by Allen (again, I avoided blatantly "auteurist" things). Also, the fake orgasm scene definitely kicked it into the realm of "adult" for me at the time (in a way that even something as mildly smutty as See No Evil, Hear No Evil was not).

Gene Hackman's Divorce Series!

Hackman would have definitely had a lucrative late-period career in prestige TV if hadn't quit acting around the time that was becoming a thing.

xp yeah that makes sense. and it's interesting to note which Allen films land here: Another Woman, Crimes & Misdemeanors, Alice, Shadows & Fog, Husbands & Wives, Manhattan Murder Mystery. the last two feel like they're bending towards this genre in some ways

"genre" not the right word, but you get me

TFBB holds up fabulously well and Michelle Pfeiffer and Jeff Bridges are hot as fuck

And to close the circle, Manhattan Murder Mystery def feels like a proto-Only Murders in the Building.

yeah I only saw that for the first time pretty recently and it looks amazing, though I have a weakness for almost any late 20th c. film with good lighting and location shooting

Maaan, 80s Jeff Bridges...

btw my prev post was an xpost about TFBB

A League of Their Own, which I might vote for, also got a TV adaption recently

The Babe is possibly the worst baseball film I've ever seen.

Several of these - if not most - hit that comfort movie between Xmas and New Year’s Day spot well.

I flirted with including Major League and Mr. Baseball, but decided they were too squarely in the realm of pure comedy, and thus not sufficiently adult (fittingly, my dad took my friends and I to see Major Leage on my 11th birthday). But those films likely owe their existence to the success of Bull Durham, a film that feels quintessentially PBI: MCe but just misses.

I remember my Dad talking a lot about Awakenings, like it made a big impression on him: "Do you know that's a true story?" etc

I've watched The Fabulous Baker Boys a lot - terrific movie. I love seeing pre-grunge/pre-tech Seattle.

I used to love Regarding Henry back then. It doesn't really hold up tbh but I still have a fondness for it.

Oh yeah, Awakenings..."Siskel and Ebert approved" is another descriptor I could have included, but Gene and Rog weren't actually totally uncool during this era. Yes, things like Field of Dreams, Driving Miss Daisy, and Dances With Wolves made one or both of their year-end lists, but Rog famously dissed Dead Poets Society and Ghost, and haaaated The Babe and Shining Through. Their lists from this period are a fairly decent mix of the middlebrow and the legit, with the occasional curveball (Gene had Wayne's World and Under Siege on his '92 list!).

I seem to recall Regarding Henry being, um, regarded as an impending Best Pic winner until it was actually released.

was Thelma & Louise considered and rejected?

I finally saw The Hunt For Red October last year. It was really good. Surprised The Fugitive isn't on this list but I don't know if it falls outside the time window or is "too pulpy"...

Hmm, might have scrolled a bit too fast through the wiki and missed it? It might fit, though one thing Karina Longworth's Erotic 90s podcast from a few years ago reminded me of what that a lot of people (well, men) were really afraid of and resentful of that film's very existence. PBT:MC is not controversial.

The Fugitive was Summer '93.

When Harry Met Sally… feels a little categorically not-right to me

Yeah more of a rom-com, and also one that has, deservedly or not (I withhold judgment, but my wife loves it) attained a kind of landmark status.

yeah I mentioned WHMS because I had a drink with a 30yo friend the other day and it came up. She'd seen it recently and is a p big movie watcher, and I would bet money she has seen nothing else on this list

was just researching whether A River Runs Through It was Pitt's first leading role when I discovered this oddity:

The Dark Side of the Sun is a 1988 American-Yugoslavian drama film directed by Božidar Nikolić and stars Brad Pitt in his first leading role, as a young man in search of a cure for a rare and deadly skin disorder.

WTF how did this even happen

I've actually seen very few of these. My dad, like me, was much more inclined to watch a movie if it had car chases and explosions in it, so when we hung out (every other weekend, more or less) we were more likely to go see something directed by Walter Hill than something directed by Rob Reiner.

WHMS has had a durability that equivalent films from the era have not. While I look at it as a fake Woody Allen movie, I think it is generally regarded as the urtext of the contemporary romcom, which might account for its currency among people who haven't seen any movie older than Star Wars.

I agree it's ersatz Allen, but ftr my friend has seen many movies older than Star Wars lol

I remember a Farside cartoon of a large, nearly empty gym with two bespectacled people in it, and a banner that said Didn't Like Dances with Wolves Society

I finally saw The Hunt For Red October last year. It was really good.

It is really good. (It would be my choice if anything, but then again I am somewhat biased given my dad was second in command of the base where the various subs used worked out of, Scott Glenn's character absolutely nails the Rickover-era vibe of a sub officer, etc. etc. But in its own right: killer ensemble cast even if it's essentially dudes all the way through aside from Gates McFadden for a line or two, probably the last great Cold War film in the specific era (and even then already casting backwards a bit pre-Gorbachev, which leads to a couple of minor anachronistic elements but nothing that breaks the film), proper tense vibes, etc.)

back when Alec Baldwin wasn't a total tool iirc

there's some good shit in this list.

xpost It's a really good ensemble! Beyond Connery and Baldwin, you've got Sam Neill, Scott Glenn, Tim Curry, James Earl Jones, Stellan Skarsgaard. Fred Thompson before he was a loathsome senator.

I saw so very few of these, not being of the right demographic or taste bracket.

At first I thought, oh I did see Physical Evidence, but then I realized I was thinking of Body of Evidence, the Madonna film.

Hoffa had a somnambulant quality, I remember that.

I've seen at least 20 of these

At first I thought, oh I did see Physical Evidence, but then I realized I was thinking of Body of Evidence, the Madonna film.

Had the same confusion. (Still have no idea what Physical Evidence is/was.)

have to confess that while I've seen many of these films (often in the theater), I don't remember much of quite a few

I think I was more into science fiction at this stage of life

Physical Evidence and True Believer are the only ones that ring no bells...maybe See You In The Morning as well - was that a yuppie movie?

I guess mostly-forgotten movies I remember from this time like The January Man and The Mighty Quinn are too genre-based to qualify. Actually the former misses the interzone era by literally a week.

Probably will go with Awakenings.

one not on the list that I quite liked at the time was the 1994 remake of The Browning Version with Albert Finney, Greta Scacchi, and Matthew Modine

It's a really good ensemble! Beyond Connery and Baldwin, you've got Sam Neill, Scott Glenn, Tim Curry, James Earl Jones, Stellan Skarsgaard. Fred Thompson before he was a loathsome senator.

Richard Jordan, Joss Ackland, Courtney B. Vance, Peter Firth, *cough* Jeffrey Jones *cough* and even deeper you're turning up steady character actors like Timothy Carhart or Daniel Davis, or even someone like Sven-Ole Thorsen! It's kinda nuts. (My secret fave: Ronald Guttman, aka the Red October's engineer.)

watched The Fabulous Baker Boys a lot - terrific movie. I love seeing pre-grunge/pre-tech Seattle.

Haven’t seen this — are there any scenes with the cast in Seattle, or just B-roll?

saw ten of these with my parents, have seen A League Of Their Own in the last seven years.

usually a poll has something that will entice me to vote but i scrolled thru the list twice and totally flatlined vs all of these - in that sense it is an admirable selection!

Hero - which has plenty of issues - by about a gajillion miles

field of dreams and i mean its not even close

I do remember a scene in Bugsy where they stop at a dusty, abandoned desert crossroads:

Warren Beatty: Say.. what do they call this place?
Driver (checks map): Ehh... Las Vegas, sir
Warren Beatty: Huh... Las Vegas

or something like that

I remember so many of these posters from the newspaper's weekly movie section. I think I've seen maybe 15 or so of these, and I don't think I'd want to see any of them again. Never seen Lorenzo’s Oil, always meant to.

You can’t handle the truth!!

I am sure I have seen half of these, but the only ones I remember and remember positive things about are Dead Poets and A Few Good Men. The Brad Pitt fishing movie had nice scenery …

I read an article about how they used lifelike fake trout in that movie

So many of these are vaguely familiar to me but I have no idea if they’re actually good.

The only ones I’ve bothered to rewatch with the kids have been Dead Poets Society, which was fine if a little… much, and A League of their Own which was pretty good until the old people at the end.

Geena Davis is something else.

should Coccoon be in this list? It's kinda sci-fi but directed by Ron Howard

wait is there a Hollywood movie called Hero? in that case ignore my previous post and fuck all of this slop

I feel like this movie belongs on the list above

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canyon_(1991_film)

I've seen 27 of these movies lol

Grand Canyon for sure, I'd say--thought it was surprisingly good the one time I saw it.

Man, Hero is such a perfect 1992 encapsulatuon of the era's prestige shit. All those Oscar nominees!

I withdraw my Coccoon nom, it's quite a bit earlier than this batch

then we get into Kramer vs. Kramer, Big Chill etc era which is a totally different thing

Haven’t seen this — are there any scenes with the cast in Seattle, or just B-roll?

Definitely some shots on location. First Hill hillsides, if I remember right. This movie and Trouble in Mind had me fantasizing about moving there.

Was 16 to 20 in this era, started film school at this time, remember some detail about 90% of these, haven't seen any, don't want to see any, will read the thread with interest though.

I never saw Crash (the 2004 one), but it sounded to me like a dumber Grand Canyon — which is very solid middlebrow imo.

I saw Short Cuts and Grand Canyon around the same time and for a while their cast was jumbled in my head.

I don't know how I missed Grand Canyon. Definitely belongs here.

I was in my early 20s during this so-called "Interzone" and no offense to anyone, but the last thing I wanted to do at that time was go to a cinema and see some normie pap like the stuff that pervades this list.

That said, Bugsy was pretty good, wasn't it? I think I learned a lot about how Las Vegas was created from that film. It's 2 hrs and 16 minutes long, so kind of a precursor to the overlong movies of today.

My mom was working at a shop a couple of doors down from a theater in this era, my dad and I would go see movies and time it so she was closing up when we got out.

One I remember watching at that theater:
Field of Dreams
The Hunt for Red October
Memphis Belle
Dances with Wolves
Bugsy
The Babe
A League of Their Own
A River Runs Through It

Not on this list:
Mars Attacks
The Three Musketeers

Watched later on:
Always
A Few Good Men
Scent of a Woman
Chaplin
Hoffa
Patriot Games

Worst of the ones I've seen: The Babe. Absolute piece of shit despite starring John Goodman

Best: toss-up between The Hunt For Red October and A League of Their Own. Field of Dreams is corny but I still watch it annually - it's no Bull Durham, though. (Which would get my vote if it was on this list.)

Threw my vote to Memphis belle because it’s the only option that features a ball turret

Eazy I’m reading your post on a First Hill hillside

Of the half dozen I remember I wouldn't revisit any of them. But if you took out Patriot Games and put in The Fugitive I'd vote for it, and would see it if it was on TV. I would take out Dead Poets Society and put in Mrs Doubtfire, say.

This is a good reminder that most TV and film was slop. The slop was always with us! And we were fine with it.

Makes you think

That's not what slop means, but I'd rather not turn this into another AI discussion thread.

Ghost is a stranger film than ppl remember.

Its completely forgettable fare except as a memory of being taken to see it by a parent/family. Technically not slop but look at what was around then, makes you think.

Forgettable art has always existed, slop is a totally different thing, I am not made to think I think on a voluntary basis.

wait let's not get distracted by slop discourse, is xyzzzz saying he would vote for Mrs. Doubtfire?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

85 or 90 percent of everything is "crud."

The only movie on this poll I would watch again is Reversal of Fortune. It probably wasn't the only title here to be on some level on the designated villain's side, but it amused me for that reason.

Mr. and Mrs. Bridge is the only Merchant Ivory title I see here. I suppose this period coincides with Miramax exploiting the MI formula to become an upper-middlebrow powerhouse?

Saw 11 of these back in the day. Don’t think I’ve seen any of them since then. It’s one of those lists where the titles / premise are familiar (Red October = Sean Connery in a looong movie with submarines) but I can’t recall any specific scenes. Even recall enjoying some of the movies at the time. Forgettable entertainment is fine

I was thinking what other movies might fit on this list and Forever Young popped into my head.

god, Mel Gibson was everywhere (Air America, Bird on a Wire, Hamlet, Forever Young).

wait let's not get distracted by slop discourse, is xyzzzz saying he would vote for Mrs. Doubtfire?

― rob, Saturday, 7 June 2025 bookmarkflaglink

Anything is possible