The Poppy Bush Interzone: Middlebrow Cinema edition

There are a number of films here that, due to me being the exact age and temperament described above, I enjoy much more than I would endorse, but I genuinely love Once Around--a film I believe only myself and Gene Siskel really flipped out over.

A few I like a lot, several I like just fine, but The Hunt for Red October is my pick, just barely ahead of The Fabulous Baker Boys.

I like Class Action and The Fabulous Baker Boys the best--but nothing nearly as much as I like Broadcast News from'87, which fits your definition perfectly but just misses your window.

Just cause I'm curious about my own stats...

Saw in theatres: Dead Poets Society, Parenthood, Ghost, Presumed Innocent, Green Card, Billy Bathgate, Bugsy, Fried Green Tomatoes, Patriot Games, A League of Their Own, The Bodyguard, A Few Good Men, Scent of a Woman

Rented or saw on cable: Field of Dreams, When Harry Met Sally…, The Fabulous Baker Boys, Dad, Driving Miss Daisy, Always, The Hunt for Red October, Postcards from the Edge, Memphis Belle, Reversal of Fortune, Dances with Wolves, Mr. and Mrs. Bridge, Awakenings, The Russia House, Once Around, Frankie and Johnny, Little Man Tate, For the Boys, The Prince of Tides,
School Ties, Hero, A River Runs Through It, Chaplin

Saw on an airplane: Class Action

There's a chance I saw some of the others, or at least part of them, on cable and just don't remember.

Class Action and The Fabulous Baker Boys are two that I could see myself. My memory is especially fuzzy on the latter.

Before doing this list, I thought Gene Hackman would figure more into this genre than he did.

*see myself revisiting.

I guess this kind of film is the biggest casualty of the Marvel/superhero era. Small films with more artistic ambition (English-language or otherwise) still find a home in the half-rep/half-newer-art-film type of theatre, or at least where I live.

Totally. I suspect the audience for these films has largely migrated over to streaming prestige TV.

(Or maybe they're still out there and I've just lost interest. I saw a surprising number of these ones in a theatre upon release--15-20, probably--and another 10 or so since.)

Nah. The current version of this is things like Yellowstone, The Old Man, and other series, many of which literally feature the stars from era in question. Also, I just remembered that Presumed Innocent was remade as an Apple TV series within the last year or so.

The PBI equivalent to the kind of mainstream arthouse fare you're talking about is things like Howards End or Cinema Paradiso.

I was thinking of things like Parasite, or Drive My Car, or even the new Wes Anderson film--they'll play the rep houses in London and Waterloo. Maybe Wes Anderson still gets a week in the Cineplex, not sure.

...which is to say, a genre that has always existed and continues to do so. These films are, as your earlier comment suggests, artifacts of one of the last times that mainstream American cinema at least considered adults to be one of its nominal audiences.

Gene Hackman's Divorce Series!

Jessica Chastain is the contemporary Queen of this, and has wisely divided her time between it's manifestations on TV and Film.

Are The Babe and Babe the same film?

nah the former is about Babe Ruth (played by John Goodman)

I am very well targeted by this poll. so much so I have no idea what to vote for as I haven't revisited many of these, they felt so formative

Haven't seen either in this century, but would ideally rewatch The Fabulous Baker Boys and Parenthood (which made me tear up at the end on both viewings!) and pick one.

Dances with Wolves is garbage and deserves no votes

When Harry Met Sally… feels a little categorically not-right to me, but maybe because I was too young to see it at the time so caught it later in life. But I do feel like it's the one on the list that younger people would be most likely to watch still

Parenthood probably woulda been my second choice here.

xp

I get this, and I even thought about it before including it. My reason for inclusion: it is as close as one can get to a PBI Woody Allen film without actually including something by Allen (again, I avoided blatantly "auteurist" things). Also, the fake orgasm scene definitely kicked it into the realm of "adult" for me at the time (in a way that even something as mildly smutty as See No Evil, Hear No Evil was not).

Gene Hackman's Divorce Series!

Hackman would have definitely had a lucrative late-period career in prestige TV if hadn't quit acting around the time that was becoming a thing.

xp yeah that makes sense. and it's interesting to note which Allen films land here: Another Woman, Crimes & Misdemeanors, Alice, Shadows & Fog, Husbands & Wives, Manhattan Murder Mystery. the last two feel like they're bending towards this genre in some ways

"genre" not the right word, but you get me

TFBB holds up fabulously well and Michelle Pfeiffer and Jeff Bridges are hot as fuck

And to close the circle, Manhattan Murder Mystery def feels like a proto-Only Murders in the Building.

yeah I only saw that for the first time pretty recently and it looks amazing, though I have a weakness for almost any late 20th c. film with good lighting and location shooting

Maaan, 80s Jeff Bridges...

btw my prev post was an xpost about TFBB

A League of Their Own, which I might vote for, also got a TV adaption recently

The Babe is possibly the worst baseball film I've ever seen.

Several of these - if not most - hit that comfort movie between Xmas and New Year’s Day spot well.

I flirted with including Major League and Mr. Baseball, but decided they were too squarely in the realm of pure comedy, and thus not sufficiently adult (fittingly, my dad took my friends and I to see Major Leage on my 11th birthday). But those films likely owe their existence to the success of Bull Durham, a film that feels quintessentially PBI: MCe but just misses.

I remember my Dad talking a lot about Awakenings, like it made a big impression on him: "Do you know that's a true story?" etc

I've watched The Fabulous Baker Boys a lot - terrific movie. I love seeing pre-grunge/pre-tech Seattle.

I used to love Regarding Henry back then. It doesn't really hold up tbh but I still have a fondness for it.

Oh yeah, Awakenings..."Siskel and Ebert approved" is another descriptor I could have included, but Gene and Rog weren't actually totally uncool during this era. Yes, things like Field of Dreams, Driving Miss Daisy, and Dances With Wolves made one or both of their year-end lists, but Rog famously dissed Dead Poets Society and Ghost, and haaaated The Babe and Shining Through. Their lists from this period are a fairly decent mix of the middlebrow and the legit, with the occasional curveball (Gene had Wayne's World and Under Siege on his '92 list!).

I seem to recall Regarding Henry being, um, regarded as an impending Best Pic winner until it was actually released.

was Thelma & Louise considered and rejected?

I finally saw The Hunt For Red October last year. It was really good. Surprised The Fugitive isn't on this list but I don't know if it falls outside the time window or is "too pulpy"...

Hmm, might have scrolled a bit too fast through the wiki and missed it? It might fit, though one thing Karina Longworth's Erotic 90s podcast from a few years ago reminded me of what that a lot of people (well, men) were really afraid of and resentful of that film's very existence. PBT:MC is not controversial.

The Fugitive was Summer '93.

When Harry Met Sally… feels a little categorically not-right to me

Yeah more of a rom-com, and also one that has, deservedly or not (I withhold judgment, but my wife loves it) attained a kind of landmark status.

yeah I mentioned WHMS because I had a drink with a 30yo friend the other day and it came up. She'd seen it recently and is a p big movie watcher, and I would bet money she has seen nothing else on this list

was just researching whether A River Runs Through It was Pitt's first leading role when I discovered this oddity:

The Dark Side of the Sun is a 1988 American-Yugoslavian drama film directed by Božidar Nikolić and stars Brad Pitt in his first leading role, as a young man in search of a cure for a rare and deadly skin disorder.

WTF how did this even happen

I've actually seen very few of these. My dad, like me, was much more inclined to watch a movie if it had car chases and explosions in it, so when we hung out (every other weekend, more or less) we were more likely to go see something directed by Walter Hill than something directed by Rob Reiner.

WHMS has had a durability that equivalent films from the era have not. While I look at it as a fake Woody Allen movie, I think it is generally regarded as the urtext of the contemporary romcom, which might account for its currency among people who haven't seen any movie older than Star Wars.

I agree it's ersatz Allen, but ftr my friend has seen many movies older than Star Wars lol

I remember so many of these posters from the newspaper's weekly movie section. I think I've seen maybe 15 or so of these, and I don't think I'd want to see any of them again. Never seen Lorenzo’s Oil, always meant to.

You can’t handle the truth!!

I am sure I have seen half of these, but the only ones I remember and remember positive things about are Dead Poets and A Few Good Men. The Brad Pitt fishing movie had nice scenery …

I read an article about how they used lifelike fake trout in that movie

So many of these are vaguely familiar to me but I have no idea if they’re actually good.

The only ones I’ve bothered to rewatch with the kids have been Dead Poets Society, which was fine if a little… much, and A League of their Own which was pretty good until the old people at the end.

Geena Davis is something else.

should Coccoon be in this list? It's kinda sci-fi but directed by Ron Howard

wait is there a Hollywood movie called Hero? in that case ignore my previous post and fuck all of this slop

I feel like this movie belongs on the list above

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canyon_(1991_film)

I've seen 27 of these movies lol

Grand Canyon for sure, I'd say--thought it was surprisingly good the one time I saw it.

Man, Hero is such a perfect 1992 encapsulatuon of the era's prestige shit. All those Oscar nominees!

I withdraw my Coccoon nom, it's quite a bit earlier than this batch

then we get into Kramer vs. Kramer, Big Chill etc era which is a totally different thing

Haven’t seen this — are there any scenes with the cast in Seattle, or just B-roll?

Definitely some shots on location. First Hill hillsides, if I remember right. This movie and Trouble in Mind had me fantasizing about moving there.

Was 16 to 20 in this era, started film school at this time, remember some detail about 90% of these, haven't seen any, don't want to see any, will read the thread with interest though.

I never saw Crash (the 2004 one), but it sounded to me like a dumber Grand Canyon — which is very solid middlebrow imo.

I saw Short Cuts and Grand Canyon around the same time and for a while their cast was jumbled in my head.

I don't know how I missed Grand Canyon. Definitely belongs here.

I was in my early 20s during this so-called "Interzone" and no offense to anyone, but the last thing I wanted to do at that time was go to a cinema and see some normie pap like the stuff that pervades this list.

That said, Bugsy was pretty good, wasn't it? I think I learned a lot about how Las Vegas was created from that film. It's 2 hrs and 16 minutes long, so kind of a precursor to the overlong movies of today.

My mom was working at a shop a couple of doors down from a theater in this era, my dad and I would go see movies and time it so she was closing up when we got out.

One I remember watching at that theater:
Field of Dreams
The Hunt for Red October
Memphis Belle
Dances with Wolves
Bugsy
The Babe
A League of Their Own
A River Runs Through It

Not on this list:
Mars Attacks
The Three Musketeers

Watched later on:
Always
A Few Good Men
Scent of a Woman
Chaplin
Hoffa
Patriot Games

Worst of the ones I've seen: The Babe. Absolute piece of shit despite starring John Goodman

Best: toss-up between The Hunt For Red October and A League of Their Own. Field of Dreams is corny but I still watch it annually - it's no Bull Durham, though. (Which would get my vote if it was on this list.)

Threw my vote to Memphis belle because it’s the only option that features a ball turret

Eazy I’m reading your post on a First Hill hillside

Of the half dozen I remember I wouldn't revisit any of them. But if you took out Patriot Games and put in The Fugitive I'd vote for it, and would see it if it was on TV. I would take out Dead Poets Society and put in Mrs Doubtfire, say.

This is a good reminder that most TV and film was slop. The slop was always with us! And we were fine with it.

Makes you think

That's not what slop means, but I'd rather not turn this into another AI discussion thread.

Ghost is a stranger film than ppl remember.

Its completely forgettable fare except as a memory of being taken to see it by a parent/family. Technically not slop but look at what was around then, makes you think.

Forgettable art has always existed, slop is a totally different thing, I am not made to think I think on a voluntary basis.

wait let's not get distracted by slop discourse, is xyzzzz saying he would vote for Mrs. Doubtfire?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

85 or 90 percent of everything is "crud."

The only movie on this poll I would watch again is Reversal of Fortune. It probably wasn't the only title here to be on some level on the designated villain's side, but it amused me for that reason.

Mr. and Mrs. Bridge is the only Merchant Ivory title I see here. I suppose this period coincides with Miramax exploiting the MI formula to become an upper-middlebrow powerhouse?

Saw 11 of these back in the day. Don’t think I’ve seen any of them since then. It’s one of those lists where the titles / premise are familiar (Red October = Sean Connery in a looong movie with submarines) but I can’t recall any specific scenes. Even recall enjoying some of the movies at the time. Forgettable entertainment is fine

I was thinking what other movies might fit on this list and Forever Young popped into my head.

god, Mel Gibson was everywhere (Air America, Bird on a Wire, Hamlet, Forever Young).

wait let's not get distracted by slop discourse, is xyzzzz saying he would vote for Mrs. Doubtfire?

― rob, Saturday, 7 June 2025 bookmarkflaglink

Anything is possible

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

A League of Their Own is a great example of a modest film with modest ambitions, that just aims to entertain you and tell a good story. It succeeds in a very satisfying way. That's good film making.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

damn I would have voted for A League of Their Own, that's a truly wonderful film.

missed this poll but I would’ve voted for The Hunt for Red October. It’s one of those films I just don’t see being made today, it would wind up a six part limited series. But it’s an almost perfect Hollywood blockbuster, and an outstanding specimen of an extinct species — a PG film for adults. Exceptionally smart filmmaking and great casting.

been a long time since I've seen it, but have to take points off for the Tarantino dialogue insertions

Isn't that Crimson Tide (also good)?

yeah! sorry, too long

CT is not exceptionally smart.

It's fun though

Burbled upthread about Red October but to add further: I remember at least one review at the time saying "McTiernan's doing a solid job but this seems slow as his follow-up to Die Hard" and I'm all "It's a different kind of tension, come on -- and it's STILL wired and tense when it needs to be, that's the whole point." But remembering again that he had a run that went Predator, Die Hard and then this, jeez. (And, unsurprisingly, all ridiculously great ensemble casts, to build on my earlier point there too -- Predator and DH's casting director was Jackie Burch while Red October was Amanda Mackey but both of them clearly were on their game.)

(Also just now realizing that Klaus Maria Brandauer was initially cast and filmed as Ramius! Connery does the business but man I also want that alternate film.)

And in amazing but welcome coincidence news:

https://lalalandrecords.com/hunt-for-red-october-the-35th-anniversary-remastered-expanded-limited-edition-2-cd-set/

Raiding my parents' DVD stash, I found The Hunt for Red October, unseen by me since 1990. It does hold up.

All the ones I've seen

actually creative and good movies:
The Hunt for Red October
Reversal of Fortune

pretty good:
A League of Their Own
Dances with Wolves
Field of Dreams

just as you'd think:
Driving Miss Daisy
Scent of a woman
A few good men
When Harry Met Sally -- this is a standard romcom, a different bland genre
Chaplin -- this seemed to be on cable A LOT. i think i've watched most of it 3 times.
Little Man Tate
Always -- Spielberg's worst?
Dead Poets Society
Ghost

I saw this on cable once and remember nothing about it:
Awakenings

Missed this poll but I have no idea what I would’ve voted for, though I’ve seen a solid chunk of these.

I wasn’t quite a teenager when most of these movies came out and my sense of them is filtered through a VHS haze since that’s how I would’ve seen most of them. They seem like cinema for my parents’ generation, though my actual parents would’ve only cared about a smattering of these.

I know I’ll be shouted down but in some ways the 80s (into this period, with exceptions) seems like a dead zone for movies, in the sense that when I want to time travel from here through film it isn’t to movies like these 95% of the time.

If I had to pick it would be either A League Of The Own or Dead Poets Society.

The Hunt for Red October

What a fun early run McTiernan had, huh? Still probably the best handling of "translation" in a movie, too.

'80s prestige cinema was deadwood for the most part.