Narnia

the big Narnia question: should you read the books in the order they were written, or in the order in which they are set? well? you tell me?

ideally you should read the words in alphabetical order also

The order in which they were written. In the same manner, one shouldn't watch the material in Godfather I + II in time-order either.

Polyphonic there's a good thread about that somewhere. The summary: judging by the sample of readers who post to ILX, Narnia-as-parables are at best completely ineffective and at worst entirely counter-productive. The atheist can read them with conscience clear - if yr objection is the specific aesthetics of the parable-making then absolutely fair enough.

Personally, Narnia books helped me understand Christianity when I was a child, and coming to terms with the fact that Narnia wasn't real was good practice when the time came to abandon religion a few years later.

Errr, DV, the whole of the end of 'Voyage of the Dawn Treader when they're sailing through, like 'The Elysian Fields' and meet, like, a little LAMB that is also Aslan and stuff...? I found it confusing when I first read it, because of being brought up completely heathen, but discovered the (not really SUB)text pretty soon after. And found it annoyingly transparent and useless as a narrative device.

Also - lots of implicit sexism. The magician tricks Polly into going off into another universe so he can guilt-trip Digory into Being The Man and rescuing her. And so on.

That was Lewis's defense in his essays. I think he honestly thought that the Christian story was a GOOD STORY, one of his very favorites in all the ways stories can be good. He incorporated it because he loved the story and because it was the entire foundation of his morality and his worldview, so even if he hadn't used such overt symbols it still probably would have ended up being a Christian story.

Whenever I say that in Lewis's defense, though, my dad says, "Oh yeah? Tolkein was responsible for Lewis's conversion, and he managed to write good fantasy that wasn't so annoying and obvious." Having not read LOTR (but intending to, I swear!) I can't answer.

I haven't read the Narnia books since elementary school. I disliked the middle few books. I wonder what I'd think now.

or: didn't Lewis hate at least some aspects of LotR, too?

What's weird is that I've read both these more than once and I don't know anything at all about the other Inklings. I don't even know their names. (I am assuming that some existed.)

i know zero abt him

N.B. This is not true.

My favorite was Prince Caspian, FWIW. It's been years since I've read these things, though.

I seem to remember that the preface/intro was written by one Owen Barfield, another Inkling, and a prominent Anthroposophist. I like the way both Williams and Barfield seem to take the existence of metaphysical realities as a given rather than pansying around with empty theological rhetoric (Aleister Crowley is another writer who shares this trait). One rather gets the impression that they knew what they were talking about, but I may be utterly mistaken.

Don't ask me why I didn't finish the book. Sheer laziness I expect.

It is terrible that no one has mentioned Pauline Baynes' illustrations yet, as they are top.

the beard, Narnian-style ;-p

ned youre peter and im edmund!!

Hey! I'm a wolf-killer and you eat candies.

Tumnus singing "More Than a Feeling" = apocalypse

No Sta-Pufft Marshmallows for you!

Christianity - Industrial / Goth (or indiepop for the wooly Anglican version)
Judaism - Stadium rock
Islam - Hip-hop
Hinduism - Teen pop

Jadis = Christopher Hitchens?

Umm Caitlin, Digory points out to his uncle that this is rub ect. at the time. Noting that people are societally expected to act in certain ways != sexism on Lewis' part. Far from it, in fact.

Am sure that Jadis is the Witch. It would be needless complication if it were a different powerful tall mental woman accidentally released into Narnia (or 'Eden' in allegorical terms) as its resident demon. And it all follows on - she 'plants' the iron bar from the London lamp-post and it grows into a new one. Circle of wotsit, innit.

Earrrgh those bleedin' TV adaptations of my favourite things. They will keep on doing them WRONG. Apart from Gormenghast which was made more obv. but not too badly. TLTWATW was k-rub, mainly because they made Lucy the most annoying girl in the world with buck teeth and other horridness. Lion was animatronic for the most part, I recall.

he's not a tame lion, you know ...

Assuming Jadis and the White Witch are the same (can't check) - is the witch in Silver Chair a supposed relation? She's described as being of the same 'type' - but given Jadis' origins how can this be?

I have just realised that my brother got the Narnia books so I can't check at home. Boo.

Besides, maybe the Silver Chair witch -- or her descendants -- also hopped into the Narnia pond in the Wood Between the Worlds (a great concept, BTW). Or because she's a witch, she came from God knows where and just sorta ended up in Narnia -- she could have just as easily ended up in Newcastle or Nebraska for all anyone knows.

"The former occupant of these premises, the Faun Tumnus, is under arrest and awaiting his trial on a charge of High Treason against her Imperial Majesty Jadis, Queen of Narnia, Chatelaine of Cair Paravel, Empress of the Lone Islands, etc., also of comforting her said Majesty's enemies, harbouring spies and fraternizing with Humans.
signed MAUGRIM, Captain of the Secret Police
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!"

blimey this is good.

"That's what I don't understand, Mr Beaver," said Peter, "I mean isn't the Witch herself human?"
"She'd like us to believe it," said Mr Beaver, "and it's on that that she bases her claim to be Queen. But she's no Daughter of Eve. She comes of your father Adam's" - (here Mr Beaver bowed) - "your father Adam's first wife, her they called Lilith. And she was one of the Jinn. That's what she comes from on one side. And on the other she comes of the giants. No, no, there isn't a drop of real human blood in the Witch."

:(((

this could be a problem

I found Shrek to be rather well directed.

I used to have - maybe still do somewhere - these excellent talking-book readings by Michael Hordern, with Marisa Robles harp and flute music behind him. An excellent way to experience them, Hordern having just the right august tones.

Am I right to feel TEH PH3AR? I know it's just a big opportunity for all the rights-holders to hoover up any stray dollars LOTR left on the table but I feel extra-prickly about Xtian propaganda these days, however crypto or likely to be elided in the name of good family entertainment...

This is one of my favorite comments ever. Cheers Mr. Trife!

uhm, you do remember what C.S. Lewis was like, right? sure, the story certainly had allegory, but there's no way in fuck that it should be considered anywhere in the same category as serialized shit like Left Behind.

Whereas iirc Narnia enchants, delights, and beguiles. As I suggest, my issue is less with the source or with the current project (which is driven by PROFOUNDLY secular ends) than with the timing. I'm feeling pretty beset these days what with the passions of the intelligent design0rz and the general cockiness and muscle-flexing and forcing-it-on-the-rest-of-usitude of the xtian right in general (vis. the current case before the Supremes).

Which makes me more cynical than I'd like to be about robust, noble, gorgeously backlit golden lions with flowing manes. Is all.

Why thank you.

wait, so the only measure here is how ostensibly hidden the efforts at proselytzing the reader? it's all a matter of overtness?

rip pauline baynes :(

http://www.dnwfriends.nzl.org/dnwbooks/imagesnba8/magiciannephew.jpg

Very sad. :-( Also Tolkien's favorite illustrator of his work. A full life lived, though.