fucking materialistic bullshit

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What is the deal with Christmas and this constant pushing to spend more than people can afford? What drives people to want to have things that don't actually MEAN anything?
If you had the option, what is the ONE thing you would want? A new 'object' or someone special taking the time to come and visit / help you out, say that they care and show it?
I know i would prefer the latter, as would many people i know, so why do we get sucked in to this 'buy buy buy' rubbish as if it matters more?

annoyed, Friday, 29 November 2002 01:34 (twenty-three years ago)

dam right, and oh the guilt about trying to have a good time when things are so fucked up in Israel, Indonesia, Iraq and several African nations - I get that feeling all the time, regardless of the fact its Christmas...then i remind myself that if you CAN have a good time you should make the most of the opportunity as best you can, and try to do something for those less fortunate too - this need not involve spending lots of cash after all

the holiday season has never meant as much to me because a)i'm not part of a big close-knit family, b) not very well-off so spending on each other was never that gratuitous yet thats whats rammed down our throats so often, and c) only one Christmas so far in my life have I actually been in a career-type job that means something so that i can enjoy the break contentedly in that respect. so yeh i've lost that childlike fascination and love of the whole Christmas thing (it never snows here anyway, and whereas i once used to delight in the day's TV schedule now i shudder at the listings), but i'm not too sad about that - it doesnt mean i cant just enjoy seeing friends and family and soaking up the whole 'end of year' thing. i'll be buying some gifts for only a handful of people who are important to me (tho i have no idea what yet cos i'm crap at that) - the massive commercial drive at this time of year does just make me more cynical and reluctant to partake in the madness though...

humbuggery (blueski), Friday, 29 November 2002 01:46 (twenty-three years ago)

1. Sell your computer

2. Give the money to the poor

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 29 November 2002 02:44 (twenty-three years ago)

geez, i hope santa leaves a lump of coal in both your stockings.

keith (keithmcl), Friday, 29 November 2002 02:52 (twenty-three years ago)

James, I am puzzled by your response. Is it your position that to questioning our society's general overreliance on material things as a measure of happiness/selfworth is necessarily equivalent to embracing monasticism? Owning a computer while thinking that materialism has gotten out of control doesn't make anybody a hypocrite. If said computer had a screen made of Waterford crystal and a mouse encrusted with diamonds, OK, maybe. But the worn-out tune about people who complain about materialism having to be utterly bereft of all possessions before their concerns can be thought of as valid -- it's tired, much more so even than complaints about materialism.

J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Friday, 29 November 2002 05:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah John is right.

I'm currently happy about buying presents because I have more disposable income than the people I'll be buying for - it's a way of getting people you care for something they'd like but wouldn't feel able to get themselves without a measure of guilt. I'm also giving to charity, and it's a measure of my residual discomfort with the Christmas consumption thing that I feel the need to mention that I suppose.

I think the social pressure to buy is there but hardly irresistible. One of the things about present-giving is that it's still a private, not a public ritual - if you and your family give each other home-made cards or nothing at all nobody else will know about it. So the pressure is of a quite different kind from the materialist pressure to have the right clothes/a good car/latest phone etc.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:15 (twenty-three years ago)

When I was in grade school, my mum made a particularly horrible dinner one night, and I ate very little of it. I was scolded and told "there are starving children in Somolia(or some such country, I don't recall) that would love to eat that." I pushed it towards her and responded "well send it to them!" Her reception, as you might have guessed, was very cold.

B, Friday, 29 November 2002 10:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Come on its spend spend spend or the economy goes down the pan and britain gets repossessed,

Ed (dali), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I began to suspect that someone at the Buddhist meeting Matt went to last night wasn't the best Buddhist when he said 'so reincarnation is like, coming back as something BETTER. Like you might come back as a RICH person...'

Archel (Archel), Friday, 29 November 2002 11:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom -- for Christmas I would like good books to take on holiday with me.

alext (alext), Friday, 29 November 2002 11:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I usually love Christmas, I'm one of those sad people that gets a buzz outta buying gifts for others. I never usually have a lot of money so they aint extravagant, but my gifts always have a lot of thought behind them. I dont buy all year though like some mad folk though, I love planning and getting them all in one day, late December,then coming home with hundreds of bags....bliss....

anon (anon), Friday, 29 November 2002 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm useless at Christmas. Don't anyone be hurt when I don't get presents for anybody. I never know what to get people, ever, so I don't get them anything. Yeh, I'm evil. Luckily, I don't expect to get any presents off people either.

alix (alix), Friday, 29 November 2002 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

My position is action speaks louder than words. Using an expensive luxury item (which is what a computer is, still) to complain about the pull of consumerism seems a bit privileged to me.

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 29 November 2002 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Xmas doesn't bother me any more since I've learned to just ignore it.

Britain gets reposessed... but by WHOM is the big, scary question?

Expensive luxury item = BORROWED from housemate. So there.

kate, Friday, 29 November 2002 21:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I read the second line of Kate's post as:

Britain gets reposessed... but by WHAM is the big, scary question?

jel -- (jel), Friday, 29 November 2002 22:04 (twenty-three years ago)

George Michael, and he's coming to getcha. What do you MEAN, my favourite toilet is now a ... trendy wine bar! Fuck off, Public Life!

kate, Friday, 29 November 2002 22:06 (twenty-three years ago)

My position is action speaks louder than words. Using an expensive luxury item (which is what a computer is, still) to complain about the pull of consumerism seems a bit privileged to me.

To me this seems like a pretty religious response, analogous too "only people who have themselves lived perfect lives are fit to speak about ethics" -- which is obviously untrue: who better to speak of the benefits of walking the straight and narrow path than he who has tried & failed? Using a computer to "complain about" (loaded, that) the pull of consumerism strikes me as perhaps more complex than you'd like to allow. Buying a computer = admitting one's status as art of a certain class, certainly not negating everything one might have to say about same.

To use a musical example: Jarvis Cocker's observations regarding class in "Common People" are grebt, even though he is at that point pretty clearly removed from the people through whose voices he's speaking

J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Friday, 29 November 2002 23:23 (twenty-three years ago)

that sounds way snottier than I intended - I am not rejecting your position outright or anything and often take what I'd consider a comparable position in musical discussions - the "look, if you like this, then you sort of have to like this" - which position gets me in a lot of hot water it seems

J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Friday, 29 November 2002 23:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Computer isn't luxury any more than TV. People do moan, even this century or month, about location of 'poverty line' cos some under actually piss indoors. On carpet, even.

To use a musical example: Jarvis Cocker's observations regarding class in "Common People" are grebt, even though he is at that point pretty clearly removed from the people through whose voices he's speaking

I don't think it's "at that point". It's "after that point". Big difference. More thrills.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 29 November 2002 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

do you absolutely NEED TV? only if you're, say, a professional Nielson family or a TV critic. otherwise, it's a luxury.

M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 30 November 2002 00:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Do you absolutely NEED to eat every day? To fuck once in while? To have moments where anything could happen? To have two hours to waste after so-called work on a disgusting and ignorant pursuit? To be smirked at by neighbours? To feel the sun on your cellulose belly, with drink in paw? To punch your daughter in the face? To snog your son? To empty hoover bags and find nothing, or nothing but dust? To understand that the flies on your face will COMMEMORATE you?

If not, what do you need?

I have seen boys & girls in cages, 3ft by 3ft by 3ft, positively prosper. We move them to bigger cages and they become snobs.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 30 November 2002 01:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I need TV, yes. I can't imagine I could survive for longer than twenty minutes without it.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 30 November 2002 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

i bought my computer before i got poor, also my car. i am not prepared to sell either of these items because one keeps me sane by giving me cheap contact with friends via email, and the other means i can get to the shop and buy food without having to lug it all back by hand, with baby too.
i dont see why my owning these things means i would not be entitled to 'complain' about the christmas consumerism issue. i didnt like the pushing to 'buy buy buy' before when i was 'better-off' and i dont like it now.

donna (donna), Saturday, 30 November 2002 03:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I guess it is out of control, I've been hearing all the usual news reports now abt folks getting up before dawn to be at the stores. I bought my brother this posh Burberry scarf last year & got my mom a rather pricey new wallet too... and I don't feel bad about it, we never had much money when I was growing up and it's nice to have a few things that are well-made and clothes that look good. I mean, life is tough sometimes, and sometimes it's just easier to head out there & fight the good fight in a pair of designer boots, and things are a little more pleasant when you come back home and your apartment is nicely decorated & not 100% furnished from the Goodwill.

Do we really measure happiness by material things ? It seems that right about now, fifty new Xmas specials on TV ought to be preaching just the opposite message as they do every year. I mean, going around stores and shopping for things is enjoyable - like I tell my mom every year not to spend a lot of $$ on me, and she doesn't, but she much enjoys hunting through antique shops and the like and putting together gifts. Shall I give her a lecture on consumerism and say, please don't have any fun finding things to give ? (And yes, she always gives to charity too.)

daria g, Saturday, 30 November 2002 03:41 (twenty-three years ago)

lux·u·ry (lgzh-r, lksh-)
n. pl. lux·u·ries
1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort.

I'd still comsider a computer a luxury, although I'd be quite useless without it. Christmas is also pretty useless to me, but it gets me family goin', so all the better.

B, Saturday, 30 November 2002 04:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Consider what you like, but your definition doesn't help. To edit myself: do you eat every day? I'm not being rude, but you don't need to. Also, do you change your knickers every day? Yes? Why do you need more pairs than you are wearing? "Comfort", aye? Surely not "pleasure".

Solution:

1. Sell your old piss-soaked underwear.

2. Give your money to the rich.

3. Await trickle-down effect.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 30 November 2002 04:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Geez I was just tryin' to help.....oh well.....

B, Saturday, 30 November 2002 04:40 (twenty-three years ago)

B, your definition was in fact helpful and useful. Eyeball Kicks is bein' ornery.

J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Saturday, 30 November 2002 14:11 (twenty-three years ago)


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