Positive people who horribly depress you

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A girl I dated briefly, recently, is a positive thinker, in the Dale Carnegie sense. She's still a part of my close circle of friends, of course. I regularly meet my friends for coffee and she's often there, and the first thing I hear as I walk into the cafe is her shrieking about how successful she is in her workplace (she's a journalist) /in her new relationship / as a writer (she writes short stories). It increases in volume as I approach. The thing that you might not pick up from this post is that she dumped me, and despite being aware of all the things that my friends tell me - ie, that no-one believes a word she says - I still feel more and more depressed by the wonderful picture she paints of her own life, and the comparative meaninglessness of mine. I'm sinking into a horrible depression; she forces me to draw comparisons between us that completely bore me.

So, how do you deal with teeth-grittingly positive people?

― Alistair (maryann), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 09:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Basing Cynicism

― B, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 09:19 (twenty-three years ago)

it's always with the fucking short stories with these people

― bob zemko (bob), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 11:48 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, just talk loudly about how you wrote a story that was really quite long.

― g-kit (g-kit), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 11:51 (twenty-three years ago)

This woman doesn't sound annoying positive so much as annoyingly self-obssessed. A close friend of mine is incredibly positive and cheerful person, but she's the opposite to the person described in that despite all the shit that she's dealing with she's always pleased to see you (and "you" can mean seemingly anyone, as far as I can tell) and is unfailingly interested in what is happening in *your* life - and considering the amount of stuff going on in her life that's surprising and rare. The secret to, heh, positive positivity might therefore be not realising how successful you are, but rather that everyone's go their own problems and yours aren't necessarily any larger than anyone else's.

In comparison the person you're talking about seems quite false in her positivity - who talks incessantly about how great their life is unless it is the exact opposite?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 13:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Exactly, Tim - and one other thing to think about is that other people are far less likely to think that you're a wanker when you meet them than they are her, Alastair. Reasons to be cheerful, one....erm, someone help me out here..... ;o)

― lol p xx, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

she sounds like a right pain to me, you are lucky to have escaped!
i bet she has to try and seem so 'successful' because in reality she knows she is a dickhead and is trying to make herself appear otherwise.
the best way to deal with people like that is to be serenely confident in their presence ( pretend! ). be politely but vaguely interested, ask everyone else how They are going etc and remind yourself that her desperation is a sure sign of someone bullshitting!

― donna (donna), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Good call Donna.

I've found that there's an inversion relationship between what people say about themselves and how they actually feel... not to mention reality. In other words, the more and louder this girl says how happy she is, the less it's true and the more she's trying to convince herself (well, and everyone around her) that it's true.

Truly happy people don't go around telling everyone how happy they are. It's a fact.

― Aaron W, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 20:16 (twenty-three years ago)

inversion relationship -> inverse relationship

― Aaron W, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 20:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I dunno, Tim: there are people who are terribly interested in everything about you who are actually quite irritating about it. I met someone recently who seemed more enthusiastic about mundane aspects of my life than I've ever been able to, which was difficult to handle: like, "Please calm down, my new sweater is actually not the most exciting thing to happen this millennium."

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Oooh! Oooh! New sweater! New sweater!

― jamesmichaelward (jamesmichaelward), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

positive people at work annoy me. Why can they not admit that a lot of what we do is boring and repetitive? True, we don't need to whine, but we don't need to enthuse over every little thing.

I think it is the dishonesty of that mindless positivity that is so annoying. Which, reading back, I see is much what everyone else said.

― isadora (isadora), Thursday, 5 December 2002 00:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm depressed by people who take it upon themselves to be the ONE representative from the group (friends, coworkers, etc.) to always remember everyone's birthday and be the first to mention it. Birthday wishes are nice, but someone who's constantly going "I DO BELIEVE ____________ HAS A BIRTHDAY! HAPPY BIRTHDAY KIDDO!" (expected response: "Aww, you're so thoughtful!") deserves to die.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 5 December 2002 00:02 (twenty-three years ago)

actually im beginning to feel sorry for the girl in question. it sounds a bit sad to me now.

― donna (donna), Thursday, 5 December 2002 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

This thread is depressing. All of my favorite people are really positive types who always have something nice to say. I knew this place was cynical but jeez. Here, try this: do something really heartless to these people when you get a chance. It may relieve them of their inconsiderate tendency to spread all that foul positive energy around all the time. They'll thank you once they learn to be less hopeful.

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Thursday, 5 December 2002 00:09 (twenty-three years ago)

That short stories thing... remember that the short story is the trickiest of all forms, and that many fine minds, fine novelists, struggle with it. The chances of her stories being any good are about the same as her winning the lottery. So amuse yourself imagining the crap she's probably written.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 5 December 2002 02:18 (twenty-three years ago)

john really, it is obviously NOT about a 'good and positive person', but about someone who chooses to rave on about herself in a very loud voice, in an attempt to make other people think her life is fabulous -mainly aimed at alistair it seems.
this is very different to people who have positive and nice things to say. those kind of people help others to feel good too, not bring them down.

― donna (donna), Thursday, 5 December 2002 03:49 (twenty-three years ago)

jody is depressed by mark!!

― Josh (Josh), Thursday, 5 December 2002 04:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sorry, Donna, and of course you're right about the person in question. The general timbre of the thread was what got to me. As if there were something wrong with trying to show a bright face to the world instead of affecting some ground-down-by-the-sameness-of-it-all pose while meanwhile people the world over who'd kill for a nice cush office job are putting in 14-16 hour days. And not complaining about it.

― J0hn Darni3ll3 (J0hn Darni3ll3), Thursday, 5 December 2002 05:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, and there are also people starving in Africa you know.

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 5 December 2002 05:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes - how terribly boring it is to think of starving people in Africa, n'est-pas? Stupid bleeding hearts.

― J0hn Darni3ll3 (J0hn Darni3ll3), Thursday, 5 December 2002 05:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sorry, John, I didn't mean my bit that way, if it helps. I just met this particular person recently who, ten seconds into a conversation, was so interested in and enthusiastic about my goings-on that it was sort of offputting. She'd say "what do you do?" and I'd say "I do [x]" and she would throw her hands up and say "oh my God, that must be so fantastic for you," etc. The annoyance was more along the lines of thinking it's okay, we don't need to get so excited about this, my life's fine but it's not like I just won a Nobel Prize or anything; I'm content enough that we don't need to spend all this time talking everything up.

Shortly after this conversation we went out as a group and wound up in a perfectly nice bar drinking, exactly as we had been in someone's apartment: this person switched into this great toast mode, this "here's to being out with friends!" kind of thing. I dunno, maybe it's a cynical impulse, but I tend to think alright, so now we're sitting at a bar, it's very nice and all but I really can't match that level of enthusiasm for a change of scene. I think that's the fear, actually -- suddenly you feel this obligation to join in this merriment, when sometimes you just don't see what's so all-consumingly great about whatever's going on. And yeah, sometimes, maybe, it seems as if people are talking up every little thing just to reassure themselves that the lives they're living are great and special?

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 December 2002 08:06 (twenty-three years ago)

no im not knocking positivity either, i just happen to know a few people who seem to fit what alistair describes, and their whole attitude comes across as being 'too' enthused about themselves in a way that becomes annoying - they direct the conversation to be about themselves and how wonderful they are. there is little interest in anyone else, and it is like listening to an advertisement for Them.

i think that in alastairs position it would be irritating, especially since it sounds as if this person is doing it for his 'benefit' ie: look at ME im so great, look at You what have You got / done!

― donna (donna), Thursday, 5 December 2002 08:19 (twenty-three years ago)

"I dunno, Tim: there are people who are terribly interested in everything about you who are actually quite irritating about it."

Yes well anything that's overdone becomes annoying. It's a matter of getting the balance. In Bec's case, that balance is being able to let me in on all the hectic/exciting/frustrating stuff she's immersed in (which, as the prez. of a student union I'm a rep. on, she sort of needs to do anyway) while at the same time being thoughtful enough to ask about my bf, my househunting, my exam results, my general opinion on stuff etc. etc. It's not so much a forced and/or disturbing fascination for my life so much as consideration for me as a person. For someone in a (relatively) elevated position in such a self-enclosed environment, this is incredibly rare.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 5 December 2002 13:32 (twenty-three years ago)

eleven months pass...

I've met these people.

― brutal (Cozen), Sunday, 9 November 2003 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

positive about 'themselves'

or positive about 'the world'

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:08 (eighteen years ago)

i walked along commerical road and the girl i was with rushed forwards skipping because she had seen an amazing pigeon

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:08 (eighteen years ago)

don't you want to see an amazing pigeon?

i have to admit, i didn't see it. and like you, i have my doubts, but, what if it had been an amazing pigeon? wouldn't you have wanted to see too?

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:09 (eighteen years ago)

hearing about seeing an amazing pigeon shouldn't depress anyone. its all im trying to say.

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:10 (eighteen years ago)

I like people who are positive about the world, and always bouncing off noticing these little tiny experiences that you may not have noticed (pidgeons or whatever). Because it makes it easier to see things fresh through their eyes.

But some people's relentless positivism can be freaking exhausting.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:14 (eighteen years ago)

it's very good when it seems to stem from wisdom (not necess. experience) rather than naivety.

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:20 (eighteen years ago)

have you ever seen an amazing pigeon?

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:39 (eighteen years ago)

i knew it!

if i see one again, i will take a photograph, and i will send it to you

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:54 (eighteen years ago)

I've seen strangely coloured pidgeons and pidgeons with weird horribly malformed toes and things. I suppose it depends how you define amazing.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

they're all amazing to me, gareth.

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not depressed by them as such, but I do wonder if people who see amazing pigeons are actually just incredibly easily amazed.

― Matt DC, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know, maybe the pigeon was playing an oboe or something, that would be pretty amazing.

― Matt DC, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

some co-workers of mine all have been watching this movie called "the secret" which is supposedly about how you can't have any negative energy or use negative words, only positive words.. because using negative words "suck the energy" out of your world. i told them that sounds like HIPPY BULLSHIT.

― homosexual II, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

it is their energy that sucks lol

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

OK, I'm not going to complain about my mum's neural pathways any more. That truly IS hippie bullshit.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

yay!

― ken c, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2006/05/11/oprah-main.jpg

― nickalicious, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

i walked along commerical road
the girl i was with rushed forwards

she had seen an amazing pigeon
don't you want to see an amazing pigeon?

don't you want to see an amazing pigeon?
have you ever seen an amazing pigeon?

i have to admit, i didn't see it
and like you, i have my doubts

but, what if it had been an amazing pigeon?
wouldn't you have wanted to see it too?

don't you want to see an amazing pigeon?
have you ever seen an amazing pigeon?

if i see one again, i will take a
photograph, and i will send it to you

don't you want to see an amazing pigeon?
have you ever seen an amazing pigeon?
don't you want to see an amazing pigeon?
have you ever seen an amazing pigeon?

they're all amazing to me

― gabbneb, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:52 (eighteen years ago)

To the ILX compilation!

Anyone remember that (Blue) Jam sketch with Mark Heap as 'Mr. Bentham' catching sight of a 'very pretty dove' on the windowsill behind the receptionist? That's the kind of vibe we're pursuing, possibly.

― unfished business, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

i'd rather you didn't

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

do it, gabbneb!

― unfished business, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:01 (eighteen years ago)

That's like the new "Footprints in the Sand."

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/extraordinarypigeons.jpg

My son actually gave me this book last Christmas, and in the spirit of the thread I shall now append many exclamation marks to this sentence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

Yup, that is a fairly amazing pigeon, Beth. I salute you!

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

He just thought it was the kind of thing I'd be interested in, and in fact, some of the pigeons are quite amazing!!!!!!!!!!!

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon.jpg

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

In reference to the question above, God yes. This fellow TA of mine who's always so damn excited about teaching her next section and loves to give out high-fives. Taryn, you're a bit of a cockfarmer.

― Jena, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon2.jpg

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

that is the michael white of pigeons

― unfished business, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

whoa! those are some extraordinary pigeons

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon3.jpg

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:33 (eighteen years ago)

yesterday on the smoke deck of the hoover bldg we watched this female pigeon ward off a pesky male pigeon who appeared to be relentlessly trying to peck her neck, I guess he thought that was hot. She kept her head in the turtle position and stood basically stock still the entire time until he gave up. I felt bad for her, it was like she got stuck in the corner at a party with a repulsive loser who was over his limit and wouldn't leave her alone, where was the cock blocker to save the day?

― TOMBOT, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, when I was on a coach journey a couple of weeks ago I observed a male-pigeon signalling some quite staggering fuck-want to a load of unimpressed females. Horny bastard ended up parading about, chest a-puff, all on his lonesome.

― unfished business, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

a lesson there

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon4.jpg

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

i have to be honest you guys

i dont really like pigeons

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

i wasn't sure i liked the girl that much either

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

that one with the cracked-nipple face freaks me out

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

okay okay, i wrote something before all the pigeons that is sort of on topic

the biggest problem with the Secret is that it is way oversimplified, based in capitalist rhetoric, appears to be quick&easy catch-all, has no spiritual depth/practice to it. in there is a nice idea but it merely scratches the surface. and, unfortunately, can be interpreted in a totally selfish way, as part of it is so focused on the individual (rather than the connections/network/community.)

(and i'm into some esoteric, hippie things)

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon5.jpg

this is a Reversewing Pouter.

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

what this leads up to is more along the lines of:
- if someone is a 'positive person' are they annoying b/c their happiness seems false, like a way to bury some of their true feelings? i find that others' true happiness never bothers me, even if i'm feeling really down - in fact, it picks me up. however, fake happiness or happiness based in something i don't value (ah ha, there's the rub...) bothers me

haha pigeon xpost

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:48 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon6.jpg

Now, this one is just cute. He's a Show King!

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

that last one looks photoshopped

― unfished business, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:54 (eighteen years ago)

The Zsa-Zsa Gabor looking pigeon on the book cover is a Old Dutch Capuchine—Black Splash. The curly guy is a Frillback, the Michael White pigeon is a Pygmy Pouter, and the cracked-nipple one is an English Carrier.

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

Oh! And the big-eye guy is a Budapester Short-Face Tumbler!

― Beth Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

haha at the repulsive pigeon. i remember a while back i was walking home through the park and saw a female pigeon call over a male pigeon and when the male pigeon came over - i guess he hadn't seen her in a while and maybe forgot what she looked like - he seemed like he was so repulsed when he got up close that he did this sort of double take-recoil thing with his head.

― gabbneb, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

PIGEONS :D even dirty and orrible things can be awesome! that's a good thing to remember.

I know only one person who's able to be constantly positive without getting grating (and even then sometimes i'm just not in the mood for it, either low and unwilling to see anyone else so publically happy, or jealous i can't manage that kind of cheerfulness). I suppose the reason it works with her is that it doesn't come across as forced, or loud, or domineering (I am positive so SO MUST YOU BE): it's just how she is, and a lot of the time it makes you feel positive and bright and cheery as well.

the kind of in-yer-face positive thinking described in the intial post, though, i wouldn't call 'being positive' so much as 'being an obnoxious cockfarmer'.

― c sharp major, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:19 (eighteen years ago)

"The Secret" is a book, not a movie (yet). it's all about the power of positive thinking, i guess. The excerpts I have read are dreadful.
About losing weight: "Don't look at fat people anymore!~ if you see them, close your eyes! Don't let your brain take on any more negative images!"
That's not really a quote, but it's the gist of it.
Oprah loves it.

I like the fact that an advice book that tells people to close their eyes to reality is a multi-million dollar best seller called "The Secret".
I have a secret called the bottle of wine.

Those pigeons are amazing.

― aimurchie, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:26 (eighteen years ago)

oh, it's a movie alright, but only in the way that 'what the bleep do we know' is a movie. not as bad as that but similar production values, of the grating variety. i don't know, i've watched it and i got something out of it but also have many criticisms, obv.

those pigeons, amazing or not, are creepy

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:35 (eighteen years ago)

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! I'm really afraid of pigeons. The one with the funky feathered feet is going to haunt me in my sleep!

― ENBB, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

The pigeons seem pretty happy - do they know the secret?

― aimurchie, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha "secret called a bottle of wine"
that's one of my main issues with this thing - there's a lot of shitty stuff in the world and closing your eyes to it doesn't actually make it disappear - this is not what quantum physics actually says, dudes

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

Oh! And the big-eye guy is a Budapester Short-Face Tumbler!

Otherwise known as the Christina Ricci pigeon.

― accentmonkey, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

in my experience, closing yr eyes to unpleasant things = you can't tell when they're looming right over you.

― c sharp major, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

in my experience, closing yr eyes to unpleasant things = you can't tell when they're looming right over you.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/amazingpigeon3.jpg

― unfished business, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

I am so going to have nightmares about that thing.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

Some random dude on the PATH train tried to hip me to "The Secret." The next day I learned that it's some kind of off-the-charts commercial phenomenon.

― Hurting 2, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:44 (eighteen years ago)

And today you have learned to appreciate pigeons.

― aimurchie, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

there's a lot of shitty stuff in the world and closing your eyes to it doesn't actually make it disappear

What's that quote about reality being that which, when you cease to believe in it, continues to exist?

― Hurting 2, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

you can do it if you try, try, try!

― jel --, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

The world is full of crappiness - but surely it's better to have the positive attitude of powerlessness and acceptance than getting angry about it. Or maybe that's a negative attitude?

― jel --, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

Obviously there's a point at which negativity becomes self-defeating. After all, if one really looks at how bad things are in so much of the world, it becomes almost impossible to even accept the gift of being born somewhere where you never starve and have the freedom to waste a lot of time posting on internet message boards or reading "self-help" books. I sometimes find myself paralyzed by this sort of thought. That's no reason to put total blinders on though.

Besides, the people quoted in the Times article seemed delusional and did not seem to be deriving any real benefit from the "Secret."

― Hurting 2, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

i'd like to think i'm a positive person. incessantly negative people are a major drag.

i'm a sagittarian so even during the lowest lows i still manage to find something to amuse me.

― get bent, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/fashion/25attraction.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

In the film a woman says the law of attraction cured her cancer, but many followers settle for more prosaic victories. Victoria Moore, a saleswoman in Silicon Valley, said the principles of “The Secret” help her snag coveted parking spots. “But if I let in the slightest bit of doubt, it doesn’t happen,” she added. Elizabeth Cogan, a self-described shaman from Sparks, Nev., said the principle works at restaurants, where she envisions herself not having to wait for a table.

lols

― Hurting 2, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:19 (eighteen years ago)

i like the whole buddhist idea of inner strength and goodness helping you be the best (outward) person you can be, so you can contribute the most valuable things to the universe you live in. positivity definitely plays a role there... it's ok to be angry at stuff, but it's better to channel those feelings into something useful and productive so it's not JUST unhealthy anger.

― get bent, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, that positive psychology stuff does go too far, and can be pretty nauseating because they are only out for themselves., usually, illness aside. I flicked through "Affluenza", it has some good points about the more Eastern mindset of trying your best, but not getting too down about screwing up and try not mess other people around (to paraphrase to the nth degree) - positive volition he calls it.

― jel --, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

i really think there's a LOT to be said for the holistic approach.

― get bent, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

I MUST not let my mum-in-law know about "The Secret." She spent about a year trying to pry me into watching Waht Teh Bleep...I finally rented it one day and man a-fucking-live it was terrible. You all know how/why. I just hate the whole "you can create your own reality" thing-ding. I don't want to watch "Seth Speaks" the movie w/CGI cells dancing to 'Addicted to ~~Drugs~~ Love.'

I tried to tell her why I hated it. She found all of my arguments pointless as she was so wholly taken with it. "No, why, reeeeaaaallly why, didn't you like it at all?" I said that aside from all its terrible philosophy it was just grating and impossible to watch w/the graphics and production and all. When I mentioned I was high when I watched it, she insisted on watching it with me sober. That. Was. Trying.

(See also: same experience re: 'Real Women Have Curves,' or unremarkable girl gets full-ride scholarship for no reason.)

― Abbott, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

im on a slope and i dont know whether its going up or down, either way will be interesting

but, its important to remember

"why watch the other guy....do his stuff?"

it should be you, maybe it already is

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

(must break this into parts b/c ilx tells me to)

i can see the merits in both 'what the bleep...' and 'the secret' but they are both just adjuncts to (non-dogmatic, holistic) ways of thinking about the world. they're easily digestible though, which is fine, as long as one moves onto bigger and less fast-food stuff. by which i mean, there's no quick fix for 'happy' existence - life can be happy but that doesn't mean happiness doesn't involve work. and work does not nec mean 'struggle' here - fulfilling, enlightening struggle? yeah, maybe that.

Yesterday i was talking to a friend about criticisms of 'the secret', specifically from people who practice 'eastern' or 'eastern-influenced' religion/faith/spirituality (this is one of the areas this friend works in), and one of the criticisms is that 'the secret' doesn't talk a lot about Awareness in a global-connected-to-self sense, which is worrisome given that it's becoming a (western) phenomenon.

Now, i know oprah would be angered by these criticisms of selfishness and narrow-mindedness, but perhaps this is b/c she does think globally (and is able to tangibly affect things around the world) - while she too can be and is criticized, she is very much about making connections, 'changing lives,' and at the same time recognizing herself as falliable (i don't think that's a ruse to simply be more 'relatable' to her audience.) Not everyone thinks in this connection-based way, obv - or doesn't consciously think this way, at least. After all, for instance, even an ipod is a technological form of connection despite its apparent self-concerned characteristics.

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

From an individual-centred perspective, there's this idea that problems with self come first and then one is able to affect in broader circles. But is that really how things work? Isn't one always affecting by being in the world, ipod on or not? We create forms of communication, technological or otherwise, in order to connect (and from there learn, act, change, etc). But move out from that core idea of connection, to the infinite modes of practice of everyday life, and things get complicated.

And so also yesterday, i watched a documentary profile on louise arbour, UN high commisioner for human rights. Every day is about the struggle to make people in power positions aware of the injustices going on at a very basic level of human life - injustices that seem so obviously wrong and solvable - so that policy can be put in place to stop these injustices and help people. It's a frustrating state of affairs - and this is how the world is run. Human rights issues are caught up in political issues which are caught up in economic issues and so on - the simple fact that rape is wrong becomes so complexly intertwined in a vast system (of competing powers) that 'human rights violation' gets distanced from actual humans, and injustice continues. There is an utter breakdown in true awareness (that is, awareness that connects), and this breakdown occurs at the top levels of global governance. to which i say, basically, wtf.

No, we don't have to daily watch footage of people starving in sudan nor close our eyes to fat people in the parking lot, but to be aware of the myriad states of human life in the same world we exist in is perhaps the thing to focus on. And then to acknowledge how we truly feel - what it is we do and do not accept or what confuses us and why - this is where attitude can play a role in having an effect beyond ourselves. So, obviously there is power in awareness, acknowledgement and acceptance - power is everywhere in everything/one because of this. How that power 'manifests' (to use the new-agey vocab), depends on what is (and how narrow or how open) the focus of this awareness, acknowledgement and acceptance.

We can see throughout history and the present how the many nuances of power work for good, bad and in between.

Because at the same time exists power in the more traditional definition - that of power over others. But in that there is always intense struggle, through war or violence or cost-cutting or self-sacrifice, it never stops, there is always a push and pull indicating heavy imbalance. Is the struggle for universal agreement? I'd say not, because competitive power does have its merits in progress. The struggle seems to be for power for power's sake, for, e.g., the sanctity of human life without all those pesky humans in it. Perhaps imbalance is necessary in order to strive for balance - imbalance is the constant crack where the light gets in.

i do not know. it is interesting.

― rrrobyn, Friday, 2 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

yeah robyn, it's the universality of eastern philosophy that i like -- the systems thinking, that we all as individuals contribute to this big rube goldberg-like contraption called the universe, and that our actions matter and actually add up to something much larger than ourselves.

― get bent, Friday, 2 March 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

i think there's something that gets lost in translation when westerners practice this stuff... we're so used to the christian way of thinking, where it's so me-centric and being "good" doesn't amount to more than working hard at our jobs, not fucking our neighbor's wife, and maybe tossing a coin in a salvation army pail at christmas.

― get bent, Friday, 2 March 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

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