Jury duty

--Homer [Simpson]

1. It is dull.

2. It is time consuming.

3. Chance of sequesterment, higher in NYC.

4. It is all the way in the hard to get to part of downtown NYC.

5. IT EATS UP WORK - this is the real kicker. I am in a high pressure job environment. I do not have the time to take away for jury duty.

I'm of two minds of it. I honestly do believe that if one can afford to take the time off from work that one should do it out of civic responsibility. On the other hand, it would still be a bit of a drag and I don't like the idea of being sequestered either. And smart-ass me would be squirming in my seat if one of the lawyers or the judge made an obvious bone-headed mistake (like admitting in some very inadmissible hearsay evidence).

I did jury service once with lots of women. It was hard, but so is life. Interesting too.

It was very interesting though

Why do you say that? I come in on weekends, I work til 6:30 or 7, I only take half hour lunches, I'm running around all day. When I had to leave for J.D. I had to come in on the weekend to catch up, because no one helps me out with my shit while I'm gone.

Jury Duty is better if you have wireless net access

Hi! I'm in a meeting!!!

That's for goddamn sure -- every time I've been waiting in that room (three times now) I feel my soul being sucked from my body. It's impossible to read a book comfortably there.

State employees and "homemakers and retirees" were specifically told to report.

also good cheap thai and vietnamese lunches in chinatown.

The man broke down in tears as the judge asked if his son would be proud to know how his father had responded to jury service. "Nothing's funny about this, this is a serious matter to these men," she angrily told the man who said he'd answered so irresponsibly because he didn't want to serve on the jury.

The last time I remember particularly well, in a 1950s-era courtroom in the back of the Scottish Supreme Courts building. Waiting outside the courtroom, there was the usual selection of people who either couldn't or didn't want to get out of jury service; I was sat next to a avuncular and friendly-looking old man. When we got into the courtroom, I was slightly surprised when he headed for the dock instead of the public seats. He was charged with several counts of various charges, which boiled down to a common theme of incestuous child abuse, 15 to 30 years earlier.

I was glad I wasn't selected - indeed, noone was; the prosecution still hadn't persuaded all their witnesses to testify. Every morning the judge would open proceedings, then the potential jurors would all be shepherded back out of the courtroom into the waiting area so the prosecuting advocate could argue that the trial be adjourned to the following day so he could get his witnesses ready. After three or four days of this, the judge got a bit pissed off, and told the potential jurors we could all go home.

coming soon from rockstar games

GRAND JURY DUTY

http://www.playright.dk/screens/grandtheftautovicecity_ps2_03.jpg
skate like there's no tomorrow to get to the court on time to avoid fine!

http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/article/649/649953/grand-theft-auto-liberty-city-stories-20050909060001641-001.jpg
find a good cafe to have lunch during the short lunch break!

http://ployer.com/archives/grand_theft_auto5-2-thumb.jpg
avoid temptations and bribery!

COMING SOON IN ALL GOOD VIDEO GAMES STORE

just kidding

I got a letter I was meant to respond to months ago which I haven’t. See what happens

When i had jury duty a few months ago anyone claiming any kind of hardship got a total grilling by the judge. He wanted every little detail about their excuse for not being there, exactly when their flights would be etc. A couple of people with legit reasons to be absent made their case at length but then noone else tried it as it was clear that anything more frivolous wasn't going to fly.

eric otm

xp it really is the luck of the draw with judges. NY state's website says you need to be able to show proof, and since we're all sworn under oath beforehand, it's a really, really bad idea to lie, but I've heard different experiences with judges where you have one who will say "can you show proof of this?" and others who clearly just want to keep things moving and just say "we'll make a note of that" then dismiss the juror after conferring with the attorneys later on.

I got called once maybe 10 years ago but my mom was really sick at the time and I was kind of on standby in case anything happened to her. I told them that and they didn't ask anything else.

When one of the lawyers asked if any of us had any thoughts on being there I raised my hand and, being honest, said I had no interest in serving, that I felt bad about being away from my (then new) job, and that I was just watching the clock and waiting to get away. I didn't get picked.

I remember reading years ago about a judge who held a potential juror in contempt because it was clear he was just saying anything to get out of jury duty. That made me paranoid about saying the wrong thing, but at this point, I think it really just depends on the judge.

I was honest to the court and said "I'm not comfortable making any promises." The guy to my left (I'm guessing a college student) immediately said, "YEAH YEAH! I'm, uh, not comfortable making any promises too." It was so blatantly obvious he was parroting my answer to get out of jury duty that I wanted to look at him and be like "seriously dude?" That was literally the ONLY thing he ever said during the whole selection process that might've raised a flag, and sure enough he wasn't picked. Like it was easy for him but somehow I felt like everything I was saying was getting grilled or pushed back.

The lawyer followed up by asking, were i to be picked, if i would be able to focus on the case. I said yeah probably but those had been my honest thoughts about it.

well thank god that's over, wound up getting a federal sex trafficking case and that shit was brutal. also I genuinely think the defense might've hired the single worst attorney on the entire planet. that said I don't think even Johnnie Cochran could've helped this dude

Would never occur to me to “try to get out of” jury duty, it’s important for people who aren’t 1000 years old to serve on juries

idk I most definitely did not want to do it. it basically left my wife alone with most of the kid duties for a while and also I work an office job so its not like someone is "covering for me", I have to work twice as hard for the next couple weeks which'll cut down on my ILX posting time

Thing is, even when you're willing, serving on a jury can be enormously stressful. For the criminal case, it was stressful for me just to be up there in front of the accused for a variety of reasons - I didn't even want to make eye contact with the guy the entire time. I understand the logic of making yourself known to the defendant, but it's kind of unnerving that a potential criminal knows your name and neighborhood and all this information the court may pry out of you (and IIRC your identity becomes public record once the trial is finished). By the same token, it's mentally a lot to have a deciding vote on whether someone should go to jail, and people do second guess their verdicts later - I live in a state that notoriously had many questionable death row verdicts overturned, and I'm not sure if I can look myself in the mirror everyday if I knew someone's life was ruined because of me, even if the evidence was actually tainted and my verdict was technically honest and made in good faith. I realize jury duty is important, that we should have intelligent people trying their best to find a just outcome, but I'm not sure I'd have the stomach for it.

*lived in a state

still never even reached the early group stage (proof if proof be that the legal profession reads my posts)

(self-evidently the correct metric *sigh*)

I’ve never been to even the selection stage. I’ve had two postcards twenty years apart saying “call on this date”, called and was immediately told I wasn’t needed.

there's definitely something awkward about the whole experience. I mean you're kind of the centerpiece of the entire thing - every argument made, every piece of evidence, every witness who comes in (some of whom had to fly in from across the country!) is all done to persuade you and the other jurors. but you don't know these people, you're not allowed to research who they are, you can't even talk to anyone (including the other jurors!) about the case until the very end

I guess I was lucky in that this case was basically a slam dunk. but yeah it was still stressful because, despite the fact that he was clearly a violent psycho whose attorney was constantly incriminating him further, he still was on trial for some very specific things, and there were definitely certain doubts and technicalities there. we all agreed the dude needed to be locked up (as much as I hate to say that) but yeah that is a very weighty decision. it feels kinda gross knowing you played a part in that.

I received my second-ever jury duty summons recently. Supposed to be on deck the first week of December.

I'm guessing it'll go like the last time I got the notice. I called the info line and they only wanted people numbered 1 - 100, and I had a much higher number. My number this time is over 400.

Mom got out of criminal jury duty a decade ago by telling the judge she refused to sit in a courtroom with a guilty man staring at her. I think what led to her dismissal was using "guilty" instead of "accused."

Eek I'm on deck for a nasty sounding criminal trial. I don't have any real legally valid reasons as a "hardship". I answered the questionnaire and I think I only marked a few small things that are going to raise eyebrows. I have to go back in in another week and a half unless I get a call beforehand. If I get selected, it'll run through the beginning of February.

...and I did serve, for 6 and a half weeks (Fridays and Christmas week off). The rules of evidence are very tedious, but the other jurors were all super cool.

good to hear about the jurors

I got a text message two days before I was supposed to report in December saying my service was over. Guess that my number being over 400 and the number of jurors they expected to need meant I was once again unneeded surplus

prosecutors be readin ILX

6 1/2 weeks!! god damn!!

prosecutors be readin ILX

Went today and it was a real nail biter whether I’d be selected. Perhaps unconsciously I asked a question that flustered them in the interview round, so they chose someone else

Ooh, what was the question?

I asked where the settlement money was coming from

Interesting!

I got a nice thank you letter from the judge today.

BTW one thing that totally worked as a way to get out of jury duty for a few people for this criminal trial: Apparently there's a whole bunch of police body cam videos online, a lot related to officer-involved shootings. Just say "I watch these a lot...it's better than Cops!"

I think it’s shameful to try to get out of duty if you’re otherwise able. Really shows that you prioritize yourself and aren’t willing to pitch in

xp Yeah I got the impression they don't want people who have distinctly pro- (they asked if anyone knew or were related to anyone in the police) or anti-cop views (there were questions related to trusting the police).

Interesting experience these last few days. Had to postpone a jury dury summons from last fall until the end of March, waited to see if I'd get called up and dutifully was; the judge came in to the assembly room and mentioned it was a criminal case -- murder, in fact, with a case that was projected to take something like two and a half weeks. A lot of folks pled hardship, but I'm covered by work and so dutifully filled out the questionnaire and was told to return this past Monday, which I did. Courtroom seats all filled up with potential jurors, they do an initial seating of twelve plus six alternates and I'm one of the twelve, making it the first time directly seated for me on a jury since 1996 or so. (I was able to plead hardship then -- I was very much a poor grad student!) Voir dire began Monday with the defense, the prosecutor concluded it yesterday morning, peremptory challenges began and after the judge let go of two alternates, the prosecutor started with me, and that was that.

I kinda half figured either the prosecutor or the defense wouldn't want me on for a variety of reasons, I was plenty tart in my questionnaire regarding larger issues re law enforcement, expectations therein, how crime and homelessness are considered in the city, etc, but I had no way of knowing, and I certainly wasn't trying to get thrown off or anything -- just saying what I felt. A defense lawyer did pointedly ask me a certain question at one point that I am half guessing could have been a factor down the road -- now that I think about it, both lawyers did (two defendants) -- though it could have just been part of them generally sounding out all of us seated. Prosecutor didn't ask me anything specifically but maybe he figured he didn't need to. Self-defense and what that meant came up a LOT in voir dire.

Generally I was impressed by the low-key steadiness of everything -- I liked the judge, conducted everything calmly, and I got a sense he enjoys talking to jurors at the start of proceedings just to find out what they all do (we actually had a bunch of lawyers in our initial bunch -- that led to a couple of very interesting exchanges during voir dire, as you might guess -- and the judge mentioned a case once where he had four flight attendants from the same airline in the jury, truly bizarre). My fellow jurors were an interesting mix, from what I could sense, and we definitely all had different life experiences and perspectives based on their answers to the judge, which I appreciated. The lawyers all did their jobs with differences in attitude and approach but all professional from my sense of it, and it was interesting seeing when and how objections were lodged without always knowing why (some sustained, some overruled, not many overall), as well as sidebars etc.

Once I was out I looked up the case out of curiosity -- if you want to know more, feel free. I honestly wish my now ex-fellow jurors the best in deciding it, I would have done my best but am glad not to have to weigh in on it further. I think a long boring civil case where it's just two people arguing about money would suit me best if I ever am actually seated.

(This makes, overall, my fifth time I've been summoned. First time was that 1996 one I pled hardship about, second was literally settled as our group waited outside the courtroom for initial seating, third time I hung around the assembly room with everyone all day and was never selected. Those were all OC -- up here in SF, fourth time I was never asked to come in, just was on a waiting list that week, and fifth time was this time. If nothing else, a range of experiences now with it, even if I've never formally sat on a full case.)

can you get arrested for no-showing jury duty?

fined but not arrested I think, contempt of court

I guess there has to be some procedure in place if you don't show up, but I think it varies from place to place in terms of what enforcement is. When the first very large group gathered a couple of weeks back, you had to check in directly or scan your summons's barcode; for these last couple of days, roll call was specific down the line and double-checked if someone didn't initially respond.

wow Ned that's further than I've ever gotten in the process!

I also had jury duty recently, the last time was at least 10-15 years ago (where I made it into the general pool of a civil case but was dismissed). The most interesting thing I learned this time around was that the more people show up, the more pools they can fill, and the less cases go to trial as a result of last-minute plea bargaining when the parties learn that a jury is ready to go.

the less cases go to trial as a result of last-minute plea bargaining when the parties learn that a jury is ready to go

Yes this was definitely a factor in that second experience I mentioned in my shorter followup. I remember we were in the hallway as mentioned, and I kinda think the door might have been open at one point -- I saw someone, I'm guessing a defendant (I don't recall if it was a civil or criminal case) with a slightly morose look listening to something someone seated with him was saying, and I'd guess that was the lawyer. When the clerk came out and announced we weren't needed and the case was over, we were pleasantly surprised, but I remember someone -- possibly the clerk in response to a similar question, possibly someone else with a comment -- explaining what you just mentioned, that often when it comes to crunch time and they realize 'yep, there's a jury, it's about to happen,' cases get resolved and settled. (Thinking of Fox News/Dominion the other year as a good high profile example, but I gather it just happens a heck of a lot in general. Which is fine!)

I didn't know we had a jury duty thread! I just got called up as a standby for the first time in ... 20 years? It's in May, and about an hour away, which is a PIA but I can deal. No idea what the case is yet, but I'm curious. It's up in Skokie.

The last time I was called up to be a standby I didn't even make it as far as an interview to be a standby, it filled well before my turn. But I recall the judge being really frustrated by the ridiculous lengths people were going to to avoid getting picked. One person said that because their car was broken into decades earlier she could not be impartial. Another said that despite living in the city for 20 years they did not know English. At least one guy that tried to get out of the criminal trial, the judge all but threatened to assign him to a (likely much longer) civil trial.

My wife was on a jury for a murder trial some years back. It was pretty cut and dry so didn't drag on. As I remember it, it was a fight over maybe $20. An upstairs neighbor owed a downstairs neighbor $20, the downstairs neighbor confronted him, he went back upstairs, got his gun, then walked downstairs and shot his downstairs neighbor. That'll do it.

that was a part of what made the one I was on so depressing, the guy on trial for mine was charged (and convicted) of sex trafficking, he abused the hell out of these women and scarred them all for life and at the end of the day only made like four grand total. not that it would've made things better if he'd gotten rich, it just underscores how senseless the whole thing was. he would've done much better for himself just working at a Burger King.

Again! I believe my eighth time receiving a summons, all but one of them I've been required to report. As I am this time, at the courthouse that is a two hour drive from my house.

Also apparently this particular courthouse, 26th & California, is rather notorious for more gruesome cases.

two hour drive? That's a hardship right there

It’s because I live on the far north end of the city and this one is on the south side of the city and there is absolutely no fast way to get there since you have to drive straight through the city in rush hour. Only 15 miles away, but 1 hour and 50 minutes to get there.

I always get kicked off juries when they ask 'Have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?'
I wish they would just put that on my juror record so I don't have to go back in

I've never actually served on a jury, mostly just sat around reading old magazines

Last time I got called, the judge said, “this is Chicago, everyone has been the victim of a crime here. If we let that get you out of jury duty, we’d never have a jury again”.

it's generally not the judge, but the defense attorneys... they have pretty wide latitude in selection

Best part: in the waiting area a woman four seats away sneezes, we say "Bless you," she says in Spanish, "Imagine! Being here while I have COVID!" Ten of us got up at once and changed seats.

When the clerk came out and announced we weren't needed and the case was over, we were pleasantly surprised, but I remember someone -- possibly the clerk in response to a similar question, possibly someone else with a comment -- explaining what you just mentioned, that often when it comes to crunch time and they realize 'yep, there's a jury, it's about to happen,' cases get resolved and settled.

This morning was the third time a scenario exactly like this happened to me.

Sounds about right!