Ethics

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I belive in the right for woman to choose abortion as an option i do not belive in the death penalty . am i a hypocrite ?

― anthony, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Depends. Do you think abortion always means 'killing another human being'?

― Josh, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I do not know .

― anthony, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Abortion is not the killing of a living breathing human being. A fetus cannot live on its own. Therefore, you are not a hypocrite.

― Ally, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What about newborn babies, Ally? Can they live on their own?

― Josh, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes. They are living breathing entities that do not need to be inside the mother sucking her life force to live = they can live on their own.

If you take a 2 month gestation fetus out of the womb and gave it to an adoptive parent, you wouldn't go very far with it. Give a newborn to an adoptive parent and it will live, unless it has a disease or the adoptive parent decides to kill it I guess.

― Ally, Wednesday, 22 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Whoa.. um yes. I mean, no not yes to the question. This one is major shades of grey. I used to be in favour of the death penalty, but have since become convinced that it's unethical and in addition not even practically a better punishment. About a gazillion studies have proven that the added court costs of conviction for execution negates the 'saved' costs of jailing them for life. Not to mention that it makes obtaining a conviction that much less likely given the zero margin of error involved - the higher attunement to doubt means more guilty people go free. But yes, abortion. I thought I was all settled on this one... it's the woman's body, the foetus is not sentient therefore it's not murder, therefore it's the mother's right to choose... but then I read a story, and there was something there that I hadn't considered before. Basically what happened was that a woman got pregnant, and she *wanted* the baby, and she was a few months along when her boyfriend that *didn't* want to be a father decided to drug her and abort it himself. To her mind it WAS murder, he'd killed her baby. Yet, if I'm remembering correctly, I believe all she was able to charge him with was some form of simple assault. So it wasn't murder and most pro-choice people would be forced to go along with that. Still there is something far more complicated and terrible going on there, but if you say one thing on one hand, you can't take it back on the other. I'm still all tangled up about it.

― Kim, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Until about halfway through term, a fetus is more like a blood clot than anything human. So I've never understood why the Jesus Freaks make such a big deal out of this. (And, yes, I was raised a Catholic so I understand that line of argument.)

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hey kim, i don't think that the boyfriend who aborted his girlfriend's baby without her consent is a murderer. but i would put him on a level with rapists. the thing is: he had no right to interfere with her body against her will. dilemma solved: abortion should be a valid option.

― lady die, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Abortion is cool because it's murder. However, I don't think anybody should have any freedom of choice, so it's a real dilemma. The best outcome is when abortions are forced on people who don't want them.

― dave q, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think you'd be quite at home in the Chinese government, dave q.

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My bumper-sticker slogan - "ABORTION - IT'S NEVER TOO LATE".

― duane, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I belive in the right for woman to choose abortion as an option i do not belive in the death penalty . am i a hypocrite ?

no, it absolutely does not make you a hypocrite. both positions express respect for autonomy of your own life. i agree 100%

― gareth, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wouldn't drugging the woman and forcing abortion be the same as sexual assault, a fairly severe penalty in many cases? I mean, think of it this way - if a guy drugs you up and then sticks himself/a dildo/some other object up there, it's a form of sexual assault and/or rape. Why would a coat hanger be different?

― Ally, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What most people do not understand about the coat hanger technique is that it only refers tothose metal ones you get in dry cleaners which cause really bad creases on the shoulder. And they have to be unwound so that they can no longer be used as a coat hanger.

Nevertheless I think Ally's point is a good one. I think even the harshest of regimes (okay - nix the Taliban cos they probably do this shit all the time) the second harshest of regimes might call this Assault.

― Pete, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hang on, hang on - who exactly in this day and age doesn't understand that? Is there honestly someone who thinks that you can shove a fully formed big plastic hanger up there? You need a wire one, the ones that you get from the dry cleaner. Basically you really just need a very thin, sharp object but it also has to be long, so undone coat hangers are best.

I cannot believe I am describing this - it is a really horrible thing to do to yourself, it's the #1 reason I believe that abortion should be fully legal, because women died doing this before it was fully legal (and even occasionally women still do it now).

― Ally, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's only hypocrisy if you think abortion is killing.

I'm absolutely against the death penalty. It is hypocritical in itself. If one rewards killing by killing, one is equally guilty.

I'm having a lot harder time thinking about abortion. I'm usually up for political arguments, but this one is too complicated and personal to make a good objective debate.

― Lyra, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

abortion - a laughing matter...abortion is cool because those who think it's uncool are annoying fucking prolife pricks who should all be shot outside their abortion clinic protests...as you can see anthony, no ethical problems with killing prolifers - they should know better...and search bill hicks "that goddamn foetus got more press than i did last year."

― Geoff, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why can't people just stop getting pregnant in the first place? Once you're a pregnoid you've given up all your rights as far as I'm concerned. This should apply to fathers too, they should equally no better.

― dave q, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'KNOW better', dammit

― dave q, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Since ILx arrived to wreXoR my life, I find I write no, now and know for each other all the time. Ethical question: shd I begin adding a discount to my subbing invoices?

― mark s, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I often think the world would be better if more mothers had abortions, if only they could know in advance what their kids would turn out like...

― Ally, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think Ally has hit upon it brilliantly there. A tempting vision...

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 23 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

five months pass...

Hi Anthony, I think that you would be as they are both murder. If I believe that abortion should be performed only if the mother's life is in danger in carrying and having the child.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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