The Siege Of Graham Street

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So where are we on this now. Thirteen days in, the local area disrupted, he's still in the flat but his hostage has escaped. Half a million quid spent (apparently, I find that a bit dificult to believe, especially as much of it would have been spent anyway) but the police seem keen on continuing to play the waiting game when it appears that the only person whose life is in danger is that of seigee. So what do the brains of ILE think should be done?

Especially interested to hear from local boy on this one.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:12 (twenty-three years ago)

? More info please?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:13 (twenty-three years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2634241.stm
is the current exciting situation but if you follow the right sidelisting you'll see great updates including the day someone tried to smuggle cannibis into the KFC, and when the hostage climbed out o fthe window.

He is now burning furniture in there.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:16 (twenty-three years ago)

half a million quid? it was a quarter of a million yesterday. Did they fly Blue Thunder in for a swift finish?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

local boy says "it's Graham Road actually"

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

That's how exciting it is, in my brain its been updated to a street.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

If it were Graham St (Islington, N1 and therefore posh) they would have sent the gas in and stopped inconveniencing the neighbours long ago. Doesn't Hackney have anything better to spend its money on? Like those "Hackney is watching you, shoplifters" signs all through Stokie?

― kate, Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

there just trying to break the british seige record now.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Haven't they already broken the record?

The Hackney is watching you posters have a new resonance now. Hackney is indeed watching this fella, watching and doing abserlutely nuttin'.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

actually, depending which end of graham road this is, i might be the local boy

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

If you were local you would know. The police would have forcibly evicted you and put you up in either
a) The Hilton Hotel
b) Blue Thunder
whatevers cheaper.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

well, more local than mark s then

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

they're giving police escorts to neighbours (indeed won't let them in or out of their houses w/o such escorts), which is causing a good deal of local annoyance

i kind of assume they're pussyfooting here bcz they have such a terrible rep for shooting first and asking questions later (eg that poor bloke not so long ago who was shot dead in the street by police marksmen as he walked totally innocently along, and when they looked in his bag, the "gun" was a table-leg... someone had phoned the police from a pub to say he must be a dangerous irish terrorist: i think he wz scottish)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm nearer gareth, plus i used to live IN the current escort-only zone (but i escaped on saturday haha)

the besieged is a well-known ilxor regular btw*

*this may not be true

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Carrying a concealed table leg though is a crime if you don't drop when they say "Stop: Armed Police: Drop your weapon now."

This table leg thing. What exactly was he doing with a table leg down the pub? Why wasn't the table leg attached to a table (which would have removed the ambuiguity). Where can you buy solitary table legs? I know in the war you could get pic'n'mix table legs at Woolies, but in peacetime we get all out furniture from IKEA where they make damn sure you can't buy the bit seperately. Is there still a legless table out there waiting for surgery?

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, you're right, its right at the mare st end, rather than the dalston lane end

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah but if you're just carrying a table-leg and someone says "drop your weapon now" (if anyone did actually say this, which is rather in question) what you do is look around for the bloke with the weapon!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:49 (twenty-three years ago)

My soon-to-be-former boss is from NI and I hope the cops waste him

― dave q, Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:56 (twenty-three years ago)

The funniest thing about this isn't even that the hostage escaped while his captor wasn't looking. Oh no. It's the fact that the gunman's first name is Eli, which for some reason I associate with a character in 60s/70s granada sitcom "Nearest and Dearest". Those of you who can remember this may know what I'm talking about when I say that I keep getting visions of this bloke in Hackney leaning out of his window to call his wife a "knock-kneed knackered old nosebag". No? Oh well.....

― SittingPretty, Tuesday, 7 January 2003 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I think what is at question is not whether they said "srop your weapon now" but what language they said it in. I believe they may have said it in the language of violence which to the untrained ear (and reader of Battle) sounds a bit like "rat-a-tat-a-tat".

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Exactly what is anyone waiting for now? Is the gunman shouting things like "Stay away or the sofa gets it!"? Do they not have gas grenades or anything like that?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 19:26 (twenty-three years ago)

''(eg that poor bloke not so long ago who was shot dead in the street by police marksmen as he walked totally innocently along, and when they looked in his bag, the "gun" was a table-leg... someone had phoned the police from a pub to say he must be a dangerous irish terrorist: i think he wz scottish)''

wasn't there another shoot ask q's later when another guy was shot for waving a toy gun around.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 22:49 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't think that was in hackney, julio: it was in the midlands somewhere

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 23:19 (twenty-three years ago)

also someone waving a toy gun around surely several levels up, in terms of justifiable police assumptions and worries about public risk and stuff, from carrying a completely innocent piece of wood in a plastic bag (and NOT waving it around or menacing anyone, just walking quietly along a quiet road minding his own business)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 23:23 (twenty-three years ago)

"He's very difficult, he has a short temper, and that, combined with possession of loaded firearms, is a very dangerous cocktail."

I don't know what to write about that. I just don't know.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 23:27 (twenty-three years ago)

This table leg thing. What exactly was he doing with a table leg down the pub?

he was a carpenter, wasn't he?

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 23:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, suddenly it all makes sense. Its the messiah complex and the bloke with the table leg DIED FOR OUR SINS.

I repeat my question. Carpenter or no, what was he doing with it down the pub. SHowing it off to his mates? Look at the carving on that. I've only got to do do three more and I'll have a table, mark my words.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:30 (twenty-three years ago)

he may have stopped off at the pub on the way to a table-fixing job.

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:52 (twenty-three years ago)

That just goes to show the lack of respect in our emergency carpenters these days. There is a house out there with a three legged table, teetering on the bing of disaster and this fella nips in with the leg that needs transplanting for a few pints of heavy. Pah!

Of course blokey in Graham Road could do with that table leg now since he must be running out of furniture to burn.

(More importantly, do we know whether the sofa in there will turn into poisonous fumes when he burns it?)

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I've only got to do do three more and I'll have a table, mark my words

...to which his mates all laughed and said "Nah, you've gotta have a big oblong bit on the top too, innit?"

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Whilst his mate Judas shimmied off to call the cops for a laugh.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:32 (twenty-three years ago)

''also someone waving a toy gun around surely several levels up, in terms of justifiable police assumptions and worries about public risk and stuff, from carrying a completely innocent piece of wood in a plastic bag (and NOT waving it around or menacing anyone, just walking quietly along a quiet road minding his own business)''

I knew it wasn't in hacknew but still the police there would know abt this case and they would be acreful to do anything careless again.

as I recall it was at night and it was just the police and the bloke waving that gun. surely they could have shot his leg instead of killing him or tried to disarm him in some other way (but again, it was a while back and i can't remmeber all the details).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 15:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I think that case pretty much centred on a dodgy, trigger happy member of the armed response unit which - as is the way in these things - got completely covered up in the enquiry.

You'd always shoot to kill though in these cases. You can always fire a gun with a shot leg.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 16:03 (twenty-three years ago)

It's easier with a finger though

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 16:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Umm...if you wave around a projectile-looking object in front of the pigs, aren't you kind of asking for it?

― dave q, Wednesday, 8 January 2003 19:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, like your arm? "I thought it was bionic."

― Al Ewing (Al Ewing), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 20:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Well it might've been making that "ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch" sound, bionic arms do that!

― dave q, Wednesday, 8 January 2003 20:09 (twenty-three years ago)

So is he still barrackaded then?

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 20:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Yep. Three shots this morninga and more fire. They think he has burnt all the furniture though so he might just have set fire to the walls ore something.

What has suddenly struck me is what about the landlord? Are thre flats below or above which could get damaged (i know they have been evacuated).

This is actually on Marvin Street, off Graham Road. So the rule is if you want to avoid big armed crime avoid streets with male names (look at Sidney Street after all).

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 9 January 2003 10:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I heard on the lunchtime news that the Police fired plastic bullets to break the windows in the flat so that the fire brigade could aim high-powered water jets in to extinguish the flames. The newsreader said "The emergency services are still trying to flush him out"

Literally, presumably.

― C J (C J), Thursday, 9 January 2003 14:46 (twenty-three years ago)

there was definitely a fire engine parked at the end of graham road this morning at 11-ish

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 9 January 2003 14:52 (twenty-three years ago)

there is a good article about the siege at www.metamute.com

― cameron, Thursday, 9 January 2003 15:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmm, that is an interesting piece. I especially like the quotes from the police (unattributed of course).

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 9 January 2003 15:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Channel Four Teletext's music pages devoted 7 of the 9 pages on their news section the other day to the fact that Tom McRae Lives On That Road In Hackney And Can't Go Home Until It's All Over. Each page running along the lines of McRae EXCLUSIVELY TOLD PLANET SOUND 'It's a bit of a pain really, I've had to stay at my mates for the past week. Sleeping on the floor and everything. My girlfriend's proper annoyed about it.' With one of those taglines at the bottom of each page saying >> More on MERCURY NOMINEE Tom McRae's SIEGE HOMELESSNESS HELL >>

― Ferg (Ferg), Thursday, 9 January 2003 17:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Its all over now. Eli Hall is dead. The police aren't saying how he died but looking at the pictures of the fire yesterday we're probably thinking smoke inhalation or shooting himself. Were the polices actions correct then?

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 10 January 2003 10:55 (twenty-three years ago)

London news last night had an interview with one of EH's neighbours who said she'd seen EH wander out of the house to shut the back gate fairly shortly after the hostage had legged it. The police did nothing ... surely they could have ended it there?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 10 January 2003 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah i heard they found his body by the back door

well they claimed to be bending over backwards so that no one wd be hurt, and now he is dead: so clearly they dealt with it wrong => but could they ever have dealt with it right? was he bad? was he mad?

i finally worked out exactly where it was (ie i finally watched TV news abt it last night): 10 or 12 houses along AT MOST from where i lived for ten years (half of that time sharing w.sistrah becky also) (of course she went and rubbernecked a week ago)

i am sad abt it all for a quite specific empathetic reason, that i know *exactly* what the shape of his flat was (staircase, rooms, kitchen, bathroom is, the last stuff he gazed on, the stuff he set on fire to save or destroy himself...)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm a bit sad too, but it doesn't seem like this guy was all that intent on surviving, does it? That's sad in itself, obviously.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I think, whilst the metamute piece above is coming from a very strong conspiracy theory angle, some of it rings quite true. Ie suddenly having heavy police presence near Hackney's Murder Mile (tm) will have reduced crime in that area for a week or so. Also it appears that the hostage was really nothing of the sort and probably sitting tenant of the flat who Hall had gone to visit. But the fact he did not go out in a hail of bullets taking a few coppers is probably a success. The rest though, hmm,

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:08 (twenty-three years ago)

heavy concentration of police in one small area of hackney = crime probably UP in other areas (it's a huge borough)

murder mile is a good ten minutes walk from graham road, while the main police station is all but ON murder mile

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Good place to put it. Nice to see the police are forward thinking in Hackney.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:26 (twenty-three years ago)

the metamute piece is unfortunately mostly feeble rebel-rock drivel wired up by bad sub-foucault paranoia

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:30 (twenty-three years ago)

You almost sound like you think that's a bad thing.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:32 (twenty-three years ago)

i want facts dammit

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:35 (twenty-three years ago)

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth (etc etc etc).

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 10 January 2003 11:48 (twenty-three years ago)

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