Syndicalists, Anarchists, Trotskyists, Maoists, Revolutionary Communist Leaguers, etc etc

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Where have they all gone? The sixties through the eighties saw inner London (Hackney, Stoke Newington) as a hotbed of an exponential number of groups. Bradford was the same (as a poor and a leftist city). I'm sure other cities had their elements as well (Liverpool certainly). But all the above seem to have, in this country at least, almost completely vanished.

Also, there seems to have been a rise of interest in spirituality/new ageism in last 10 years. at expense of more politically oriented stuff? how did the more individualistic ethos of spirituality replace the more societal focus of leftism?

if this is the case, i find it quite surprising that the natural constituency for both types should be the same (in that, in many ways, they are actually quite oppositional). so, perhaps, it is the growth of single issue politics that has absorbed that constituency instead? or perhaps those of us would once have been that natural consituency have instead grown up with cynicism?

i kind of miss the quaint dogmatism that i grew up with as a child.

gareth, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

One word Gareth - DEMOGRAPHICS. Once all the baby boomers die the world we be reborn, like after the Black Death

dave q, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

New Age - boomers growing old and ugly like they thought would never happen. Soon they'll die! SOS! But having rejected traditional religion, and being a mass of solipsistic crybabies, they go for 'New Age' so they can pick'n'mix and tailor spirituality to suit themselves, as self-esteem and self-fulfillment is the tragicomic desperate quest for these superannuated hippies. If only there'd been several hundred thousand more Kent States.

dave q, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Taking sides: New Age, Old Age

(Bearing in mind that this is becoming somewhat urgent&key for me, as chances are good I'm already some way past halfway)

mark s, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Ah, Gareth, BUT... I find it rather disturbing that the only peeps I know who are 'politically active' (of the same age) are 'orrid skinheads, whose political orientation is somewhat obvious. I don't know any keen lefties (not counting my friends, who are, but who aren't 'active').

DG, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Maybe once the Cold War ended it seemed like communism wasn't going to sweep the world after all, so the lefties went to find something to comfort their loss. Traditional religion had requirements as well as comforts, so New Age was the way to go.

Lyra, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i agree about cold war (although downturn surely in full swing before fall of berlin wall - disillusionment with brezhnevian bureaucracy?)

but all the above seem to be not only anti-religion but anti- spiritualist as well? concerned with here and now?

gareth, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

If you get disillusioned enough to abandon your cause doesn't it make sense to go to the opposite camp?

A lot of new age has a surprising lack of spiritualism, though. It's all "how to feel better about yourself using four thousand year old meditation techniques from the wilds of Burma" and such.

Lyra, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

one year passes...
i was surprised by the lack of response/interest in this thread

gareth (gareth), Thursday, 12 September 2002 11:20 (twenty-two years ago) link

gareth, I can't speak for the UK, but in the U.S., if you go to political demonstrations wiht a liberal/left agenda, you will frequently run into Anarchists and Trotskyists (generally hawking newspapers very aggressively). I'm not too keen on Trotskyites. When I was doing a little work related to East Timor a while back, everyone else involved was much more left and commited (sp?) than me. You get a lot of vaguely anarchist types who could be described as neo-tribal, where there is an overlap between ideas that could be labeled New Age and some sort of leftism. One person who was very key in organizing ETAN locally was quite interested in returning to a less technological way of life. The overlap between an admiration for indigenous forms of spirutality and human rights work is probably pretty common.

Sorry this is so slack, but I am writing from work. Hurry hurry.

DeRayMi, Thursday, 12 September 2002 14:07 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think it's too big and difficult a question gareth. Well it is for me anyway. I think by the end of the 80's there was some kind of paradigm shift in politics and political belief systems, something to do with Lowest-Common-Denominator individualism dissolving them. And dave q is probably OTM. Didn't a prog called 'Century Of The Self' also touch on this earlier in the year?
Maybe what we need here a Sociologist - there's a phrase you don't see every day.

(Oh - and could somebody PLEASE finally tell me what 'baby-boomers' means?
Does it just refer to people born between 19xx and 19yy - and if so what are the xx & yy?)

Ray M (rdmanston), Thursday, 12 September 2002 14:12 (twenty-two years ago) link

1945-195x (forget when it ends exactly => there was a big post-war hike in the birthrate, when all the folks who survived got home)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 12 September 2002 14:23 (twenty-two years ago) link

Most people seem to be post-modernists these days.

toraneko (toraneko), Thursday, 12 September 2002 15:37 (twenty-two years ago) link

The Socialist Workers, who are Trotskyists, are quite big in this country. Quite Big means different things when talking about fringe leftists than when talking about real political parties, of course.

Anarchists worldwide are on a bit of rebound, there's a lot of that kind of stuff mixed into all that anti-globalisation shite.

a lot of the funnier parties of the past died out either out of post-cold war fallout or because their leadership fragmented. didn't one group have this weird Stalinist leader called Healy who used to have big posters of himself everywhere at their conferences? then he was accused of preying sexually on the party membership, and it split into a million tiny factions.

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 12 September 2002 15:44 (twenty-two years ago) link

SWP not trots acc. their own defn, they're neo-leninists

Gerry Healy was more a Trot than a Stalinist, if you mean that in the technical sense (his party was the WRP). He looked like one of Dr Who's enemies, which is a top look for a Revolutionary Leader imo.

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 12 September 2002 15:51 (twenty-two years ago) link

You forgot rockists. (I know, I know, sorry).

david h (david h), Thursday, 12 September 2002 17:05 (twenty-two years ago) link

The collapse of the Soviet Union caused great damage to far-left. Even those many parties opposed to Moscow defined themselves against ‘really existing socialism’ and the wind fell out of their sails when it fell apart. Radical Marxist and Socialist ideas looked more tawdry, dogmatic, unfashionable and irrelevant than ever. The recent Martin Amis v Kingsley v Stalin v Hitchens spat reminded me of the amount of young idealists who even after Ribbentrop-Molotov, even after revelations of mass slaughter and human rights abuses in the USSR, still looked up to Moscow.

New Age…I despair of it. When working in a second hand bookstore in Amsterdam we would flog endless amounts of flimsy mystical claptrap to alt-tourists and students whilst books on orthodox religions, politics and western philosophy gathered dust. Seems to fulfil some vague superficial spiritual longing I guess.

(Incidentally former Baader-Meinhof/RAF ideologue, radical lawyer, and convicted terrorist Horst Mahler has gone completely the other direction becoming a member of the neo-fascist NPD and publishing vile anti-Semitic ramblings. He was recently photographed with Nick Griffin.)

stevo (stevo), Thursday, 12 September 2002 17:27 (twenty-two years ago) link

(Incidentally former Baader-Meinhof/RAF ideologue, radical lawyer, and convicted terrorist Horst Mahler has gone completely the other direction becoming a member of the neo-fascist NPD and publishing vile anti-Semitic ramblings. He was recently photographed with Nick Griffin.)

Then there's David Horowitz, apparently the American equivalent of Horst Mahler. As the French would say, "les extrèmes se touchent."

Maybe Eduard Bernstein was right all along.

Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 13 September 2002 05:40 (twenty-two years ago) link

SWP not trots acc. their own defn, they're neo-leninists

that's hairsplitting. they do essentially follow Trotsky's line on most things. they maybe break with some other wing of Trotskyism when Tony Cliff comes on the scene and gives them an ideologue of their own.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 13 September 2002 15:03 (twenty-two years ago) link

haha hairsplitting yes i know but forewarned is forearmed people!! i suffered so that you need not etc etc

mark s (mark s), Friday, 13 September 2002 15:26 (twenty-two years ago) link

More hairsplitting:

Trotsky's three "contributions" to Marxist theory are his analysis of the soviet union (which the SWP disagrees with) his concept of permanent revolution (which the SWP disagrees with) and his analysis of the modern labor movement (in the form of the transitional program and "trade unions in the epoch of imperialist decay") which the SWP also disagrees with.

You might argue his anti-fascist program was a "contribution" but the SWP disagrees with that in practice too.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 13 September 2002 15:28 (twenty-two years ago) link

eight months pass...
there are still posters for the MLKP in hackney, but i cant help feel that the fact that they spell communist with a K betrays an aesthetic rather than a political bent. however, this is not necessarily a bad thing. though i do wonder how this tallies with the 4 70+ campaigners that were electioneering in a mini on queensbridge road in summer 2002

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 10:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

I read that as fitting over 470 campaigners in a mini!

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 11:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

Now that "Citizen Smith" is out on DVD I suspect things are going to change.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE.

kieron, Tuesday, 20 May 2003 21:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

There are way too many Commies at York.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 21 May 2003 03:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I got the impression Anarchism is on a bit of a rebound at the moment. They've been the shock troops for all that anti-globalisation stuff, with other leftist groups having a distinctly bandwagon jumping air.

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 21 May 2003 11:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes, at least here in Finland anti-globalisation/new environmentalist movement is quite anarchist in spirit, although only a few people are actually calling themselves anarchists. Which is of course fine, since clear definitions are not an anarchist thing to begin with; you don't have to call yourself an anarchist to be one.

Also, there seems to have been a rise of interest in spirituality/new ageism in last 10 years. at expense of more politically oriented stuff? how did the more individualistic ethos of spirituality replace the more societal focus of leftism?

To me at anarchism/anarcho-socialism was always the perfect middle ground between leftism and individualism; it lacks communism's authoritarianism and capitalism's egoism. That's why I still call myself an anarchist.

The collapse of the Soviet Union caused great damage to far-left. Even those many parties opposed to Moscow defined themselves against ‘really existing socialism’ and the wind fell out of their sails when it fell apart.

But this doesn't count the new anti-globalisation/environmentalist/anarchist movement, does it? It is exactly because the binary left/right-division is gone, that they can present a credible "third way", or "third ways" (anti-capitalism without the strictness of authoritarian communism).

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 21 May 2003 11:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

two months pass...
The Mondragon Cooperative is a world-class, outstanding business which breaks all the prevalent business models.
http://www.mondragon.mcc.es/

some notes I've filtered about them today:


  • They are inspired by basque Anarcho-Syndicalist school.
  • Mondragon bootstrapped itself into being an $8billion business, with its own bank, its own schools and university, its own social security and health coverage, all paid for voluntarily by its
    worker/owners.
  • Workers runing their own businesses, themselves
  • They succeeded spectacularly as a profit-making business WITHOUT the top-down leadership of megabuck-salaried brave captains of industry leading the stupid workers.
  • The WORKERS RUN MONDRAGON!
  • they offer job security
  • they offer high wages
  • they made a $250Million net profit last year during a world-wide economic downturn while doing major worldwide community outreach, such as with the Doctors Without Borders.

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 7 August 2003 22:20 (twenty-one years ago) link


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