Involuntary androgyny, classic or dud?

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Today lunch I sat across from a . . . person. I couldn't tell at all what gender. I scrutizined the timbre of his/her voice, his/her body language, clothing, hair, everything. A little bit of facial hair, but not enough to be a tip-off. I still haven't the slightest clue.

There was also a . . . person working at a local movie theater who, even after having been to the theater numerous times over several years, neither myself nor any of my friends could determine the gender.

Likewise I was once working as the guy who takes tickets at a film archive. A young . . . person came up to me and asked for directions to the bathroom. After much internal deliberation I said, "The women's bathroom is upstairs and to the left." Long pause. Evil stare. "Um, but where is the men's bathroom?"

This sort of thing fills me with an uncomfortable mix of despair and hilarity. What about you? What are your tales of encountering involuntary androgyny?

― Man (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

GRAHAM TO THREAD!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 20:01 (twenty-three years ago)

when I was growing up the mailman/woman had this look. We settled on calling this person "she-mail".

― Chris V. (Chris V), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 20:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I've more than once not known whether someone was male or female, and it has never troubled me - I've happily left them in my brain in some state of quantum uncertainty, until something snaps them into one reality. Fortunately no one in such a state has ever asked me for directions to the bathroom when the gents and ladies are far apart.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 21:35 (twenty-three years ago)

The sad thing is that I've heard some people take umbrage when I've joked about this kind of thing, positing that the person is a pointed lesson in how the whole "two genders" thing is a social construct blah blah blah. Maybe, but I suspect that many if not most people who fall into this non-category would probably wish to be more clearly masculine or feminine.

― Man (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 21:38 (twenty-three years ago)

It's Pat!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 21:43 (twenty-three years ago)

It's Pat was a failed attempt to explore this phenomenon because it was no secret that PAT WAS A WOMAN. If they had invited some completely unknown and genuinely androgynous actor, with no visible protheses or padding, to play the androgynous character, it might've been interesting.

― Man (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 21:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Candid Camera on its last legs did just that. They invited someone named Robin to go to some store and ask which way to the restroom. Robin wore all denim, had long 70s hair, and looked somewhere between Vanessa Carlton and Jeff McDonald of Redd Kross, and had a light raspy voice.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I miss Candid Camera.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Wait, it was a secret that Pat was a woman -- they had that recurring character for a year before they told anyone who was playing hir. (Or at least, that's how I remember it.) Of course, by the time the movie came out it was well known...

― Chris P (Chris P), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

It was obvious from the getgo who was playing Pat, c'mon!

― Man (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

When will I actually meet one fo these girls that fins guys that look like gurls sexy? When?

― Graham (graham), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

We're not talking about guys that look like girls or girls who look like guys. We're talking about whozzits that look like whattzits.

― Man (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:26 (twenty-three years ago)

But Graham, androgyny is sexy. Everyone knows that. :)

― , Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I still find it hard to reconcile the character with the actor. But, no, I remember news articles about the mystery (something about even her mother didn't realize it was her), and I thought there was an episode where they revealed who it was.

― Chris P (Chris P), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Hermaphrodites are surprisingly common.

While looking for statistics I came across THIS PAGE. I have only scanned over it so far which has allowed my imagination to run riot. What on earth is it? I fear this is the dark heart of 'fun fur'. (it's text only and safe for viewing at work)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 23:24 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.solfire.com/images/tfring.jpg

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 23:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I also thought it was obvious who was playing Pat from the beginning, especially from the voice.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 23:26 (twenty-three years ago)

And HOLY SHIT N!!!!!!!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 23:28 (twenty-three years ago)

that's do-you-hate-fun fur, i think

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 23:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I was so relieved after viewing that link that my furry persona, a hamster, is not only of the most used personas. I am sooo original.

― Mandee, Wednesday, 15 January 2003 23:59 (twenty-three years ago)

At a nearby Red Lobster there's a waitress who appears to have once been a man (due to the presence of facial hair and deep voice) but I guess there's no way to be sure.

― Curtis Stephens, Thursday, 16 January 2003 00:10 (twenty-three years ago)

You could say, "I'll have the popcorn shrimp as an appetizer and the crab legs for an entree. By the way, could you drop trou?"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 16 January 2003 00:17 (twenty-three years ago)

But the, erm, ah, present state of the plumbing might not neccesarily correspond to original gender assigned at birth. Which is, of course, just how it should be.

― , Thursday, 16 January 2003 01:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Dan needs to go on a national tour of Red Lobsters asking this question over and over again.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 16 January 2003 01:46 (twenty-three years ago)

It could be the 90s' answer to "Where's Herb?"!

Oh, wait, except it's not the 90s anymore.

― Chris P (Chris P), Thursday, 16 January 2003 03:52 (twenty-three years ago)

What's the big deal if you can't tell what a person is? It's not really your business.

― madeleine c, Thursday, 16 January 2003 09:56 (twenty-three years ago)

unless your job title is 'random-person gender-identifier.'

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 16 January 2003 10:16 (twenty-three years ago)

When will I actually meet one fo these girls that fins guys that look like gurls sexy? When?

When you fall into a copy of Blur's Parklife. Be careful not to undershoot and end up in Far Out instead (insert tasteful picture of Graham falling past Betelgeuse here, please) (thanks).

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 16 January 2003 12:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Involuntary androgyny = dud, of course. In an ideal world, everyone should be able to present their gender exactly as they want to.

Dammit, that sounds far too political.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 16 January 2003 14:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe hell is eternity spent in Far Out.

― Ferg (Ferg), Thursday, 16 January 2003 15:41 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

I was going over a high school class list today, and in the "gender" column one of the students was listed not as "F" or "M" but as "E." What does this mean?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

'either or'

― kephm, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Emale

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Funnily enough I'm watching Amelie Mauresmo being interviewed on tv right now and I couldn't tell her gender till I turned the sound up

― ..., Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

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