Is 'Dear' disappearing?

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I notice when I get e-mails from older folks (say, 45 and older), they usually begin with the salutation 'Dear.' Even if they've never written to me before or don't know me. Almost no one younger than that ever does this. What I hate is when people don't bother addressing me at ALL in an e-mail--no first name, nothing. (Okay, if it's just a short catch-up kind of letter, fine.) To me that's the equivalent of walking up to someone on the street to ask them the time without bothering to say 'excuse me.' Maybe I'm just being silly. I always try and address the person in an e-mail--unless I feel there's just CAUSE for me to be subtly rude back (though if I'm just plainly pissed at someone I make DAMN SURE to address them). I only use 'Dear' if it's mom I'm writing to or if the person I'm responding to addressed me that way (I almost feel obligated in re: the latter). With everyone else nowadays, it just feels funny to start a letter that way. (Mind you, I haven't sent a snail mail to anyone in ages, so I'm not sure how I'd go about that.)

How do you address folks? Or don't you?

Also, have 'sincerely' and 'yours truly' been permanently shut out by 'best'?)

― bobby j, Saturday, 1 February 2003 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

E-mail feels much less formal than snail mail. It's more like passing a note than sending something through the mail. I always write "dear" in letters (and I send them much more frequently than e-mails), but I don't bother in e-mails unless it's to someone I haven't e-mailed before.

"Best" sounds like a brushoff. Ick.

― Maria (Maria), Saturday, 1 February 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i usually just say "yo!"

― geeta (geeta), Saturday, 1 February 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear bobby,

I don't think "Dear" is disappearing, but it's losing prominence at only a slightly slower rate than old-fashioned letter-writing. I think of email as being about halfway between the relative formality of a typical letter and the relative informality of a phone call.

I'll use "Dear" in email if I'm writing to someone on business for the first time (or if it's someone with whom communications have remained formal), and I'll always use it to respond when addressed with it. I use "Sincerely" and similar closing expressions when I've begun with "Dear," otherwise something like "Best" or "Cheers."

I'll skip the salutation and closing altogether when a colleague and I are firing emails back and forth and it feels like a continuation of the same exchange rather than the beginning of a new one.

Sincerely,

(damn, the joke kind of breaks down at the end since the bboard is going to plug in my standard signature line...)

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Saturday, 1 February 2003 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear Mr J,

I note your comments regarding the changing trands in epistolary salutations with some interest. I hope you will not find it impertinent of me to furnish you with my own thoughts on this tricky matter.

For my own part, I have largely dispensed with the observance of the traditions to which you refer. Although I have some sympathy with the firm position you have taken, I have found that perserving with the hitherto universal furniture of letter-making is seen as 'fuddy-duddyish' (yes!) by the modern generation.

My stance springs from a pragmatic disposition. The purpose of correspondence is, lest we forget, communication, and it is with sadness that I must advise you that adherence to the good rules our fathers taught us may nowadays render the message uninteresting and even obscure to the modern reader.

I hope you will find some way of coming to terms with what is, I concede, a most graceless of ages.

I remain sir, your most humble servant,

― Mr NCJ Dastoor (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear Mr. Dastoor,

Regarding your recent electonic post to the ILx bulletin board, on the thread titled "Is 'Dear' disappearing?", posted on the thirty-first of January, 2003 Anno Domini, at 10:31 in the evening, Eastern Standard Time, I would like to congratulate you on your thorough exhibition of your grasp of the correct tone and structure for all correspondence.

I would like to, most humbly, request your permission to refer to your work in my upcoming dissertation, tentatively titled "What in the Hell Happened to Good Manners, Hunh?". I am currently in negotiations with an agent and several of the more renowned and selective publishing houses over rights regarding said dissertation manuscript, and would, of course, acknowledge your contribution through a mention in the "Author's Notes" pages, as well as an in-text citation, a footnote, and a mention in the bibliography and the index of said document.

I shall eagerly anticipate your most prompt and acquiescent reply, via return post. As a token of my regard for your esteemed contribution, I have taken the liberty to enclose a self-addressed and stamped envelope, as well as a legal form that authorizes the use of your work in my anticipated dissertation. Please sign this form in dark ink and have it witnessed by two persons of great repute, most preferably members of the clergy.

I shall be ever faithfully yours and truly in your debt,

Your friend and compatriot in literary endeavors,

― The Lady Laura of Orlando (Ms Laura), Saturday, 1 February 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 February 2003 05:24 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread reminds me of the Young Ones episode with "Darling Bank Manager."

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 February 2003 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I start my emails with Hi if i'm sending to friends or people within my company. I generally use Dear for our suppliers and customers.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Your suppliers are dearer to you than your friends? That's all wrong.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

they're actually hi-er in my list of concerns.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

my frenz, that is.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

You should start writing 'Lo! Acme Supplies' to your business contacts.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember my boss telling me that I shouldn't address people in emails because it's unprofessional, and that you should just go straight into the message. I said I think this is very rude, and I always start my messages with a hey or a hello followed by the persons's name, even if I am just telling them that I got their email and their books have been renewed. And I don't like signing off with just my name either.

Letters on a professional basis or applying for a job I always start with a "dear", and finish with the yours sincerely/faithfully.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

You know there's a difference, right?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

yep! sincerely if you know the person's name, faithfully if you don't.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Phew - I was worried that this might have thwarted your career!

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

applying for jobs, that's an interesting one. is it correct to attach the covering letter saved as a Word document along with another one for your cv, or should the body text of the email contain the covering letter? i've used both approaches in the past, but I wonder if one of these ways is considered the correct one.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(the major thing thwarting my career is sending of for application forms and not filling them in)

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

If they have asked for the CV in Word format then either is OK I think (though I'd prefer the plain text, unless you are going to send a 'covering covering letter' email too).

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

it's that big space whare you're supposed to say what attracts you to the job and why you're the right person that always thwarts me. They always start with easy stuff like your name and address and even listing my qualifications doesn't require much head scratching. lulling you into a false sense of security then...oh dear.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 February 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The internet makes people rude.

Yours &c.

― Mark C (Mark C), Saturday, 1 February 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd say for job applications, the email should be the covering letter - it gets absurd if it is the covering letter for the covering letter.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 1 February 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

arrgh! i really do think the sincerely/faithfully thing has thwarted my career, as i have only just found out the difference by reading this thread!

i never use "dear", unless it's for a covering letter. i had a teacher who always used "dear" in emails. it was cute.

― sand.y, Saturday, 1 February 2003 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks all, dear-everyone-i-love-you-etc.

Now what about deers? Are they disappearing too?

― bobby j, Saturday, 1 February 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

No. Scotland is over-run with them.

― Lara (Lara), Saturday, 1 February 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never used it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 1 February 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

oh no has dear become twee. Ladies in second hand shops are keeping it alive.

― ducklingmonster, Saturday, 1 February 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Odd fact: most 'Language' threads are from 2003

― the pinefox, Thursday, 24 April 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

It's not that odd. It's because I finally got around to making the category in 2003.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(and only retrospectively categorised a few older threads)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

maria is right way upthread. "best" is often used when i've lost all patience with someone and want them to fuck off.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

In work emails, I tend to sign off with (hardened) 'Regards'. Should I be adding a 'kind' or kisses?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

it's coming back, baby, oh yeah!

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

you could try "b/f/f" or "l/y/l/a/s" if you want to make things more personal.

xpost

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that like a/s/l?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I've started signing off 'I remain' (trans: I just did it a minute ago and probably will for ever).

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

If I still like the person I'm talking to, I'll use "dear". If I don't, you're a coworker. That, or you've really pissed me off.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

If we're having a disagreement, I'll use "As ever", if I write at all.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

you could try "b/f/f" or "l/y/l/a/s" if you want to make things more personal.

Heh, my best friend and I say "lylas" when we're saying goodbye on the phone.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

whatever happened to telegraphic slang? you remember, like

73 = "Best regards"
88 = "love and kisses"
PQ = unprintable insult

73
TH

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Never heard of that, Tracer. Morse code?

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

love ya like a sister, n.!

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it really so bad to sign off with "Yours sincerely" instead of "Sincerely yours"? I'm told the former is somewhat intimate??

d/s/l, TH

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I have always thought it sounded kind of creepy and over-familiar.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

for some reason, i always think of "yours sincerely" as concealing crazed longing. "sincerely yours" just makes me think of form letters.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always thought of using "Yours sincerely" only with people I'm not close to (professors, bosses, etc). No sense to use that when talking to actual mates.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"Yours faithfully" always sounded like the sound of someone wanting to be your dog.

― Iggy Pop (Barima), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Or Steve Perry.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i read this thread title as "Is 'Dear' disappointing?" to which i reply yes. there are much more creative ways to start off a letter, unless of course, it needs to be formal. but i hate it when friends address me as dear in letters. it makes me feel completely uninspiring.

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

could someone explain this to me: dear is used to address someone in a letter in english and also to mean "expensive", Caro in italian is used to address someone and also means expensive. Cher in french also has these two uses. Why is it that Dear means "dear... whoever" and "expensive" in so many languages (there may be others for all i know).

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"Dear" = expensive is derived from the self-pity classics "Oh dear"/"Dear me" and accompanied by much hand-wringing. It's the correct English way of expressing that something hurts you...in your HEAD.

― Crickets Dance On Tequila Booty (Barima), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

perhaps it comes from dear as an adjective/endearment rather than a salutation. it that case, it could indicate either monetary or personal value.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I always thought the rule was "Yours faithfully" if you address them as Sir or Madam, "Sincerely" at other times.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

that makes sense Lauren (and seems so obvious to me now, d'oh!)

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

d l is correct.

― Crickets Dance On Tequila Booty (Barima), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

'Dear', even as an adjective, seems very far removed to me from 'expensive'. I am still puzzled. If all these words have a common root that just happened to mean both things then I could see how both might have transformed into the new form and still retain the double meaning. But it seems unlikely. I guess your explanation is correct. Maybe I need to rethink my attitudes to money and affection.

My grandmother used to call people 'good value', in an approving way. I remember telling her I thought it sounded a bit materialistic.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i have no idea, really. just guessing.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

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