Space Shuttle Horror

"The 13 lab rats on board faced the guillotine following the flight"

The guillotine! I prefer the ducking stool as a way of dispatching rodents' lives, myself.

A space shuttle is a super-complex device with a million things that could go wrong. That it hasn't happened more often is a testament to the dedication of the NASA engineers.

Besides the Challenger, there was Apollo 13, the Mercury(?) program oxygen fire, and the Soviets lost quite a few cosmonauts to accidents.

Of course, at this point in history, manned space flight is pointless and a waste of better spent resources.

It just disappeared according to the BBC.

Quite right. There is always a risk, and a big one -- nothing is simply routine. The real problem here is that there might not be anything at all to tell what might have happened -- depends on what debris is recovered and what data is available.

The coverage of this also reminds us that people will say anything to get on tv - some dude was just on CNN talking about a commercial plane being "close" to the shuttle - right, at 200K feet.

I remember once reading a 1960s copy of the Guinness Book Of Records, which said it was rumoured that the Soviet Union had sent several cosmonauts into space *before* Gagarin, but none of them had survived. It gave a table with their names and the lengths of time they had survived in orbit before dying.

Has anyone else ever heard of this, and does anyone know if there's any proof whether it's true or not?

i turned off the tv after getting the basic idea of the columbia tragedy, as i'm sure it'll be repeated, and the images re-broadcast, over and over.

it's all very sad.

Its is incredible that more accidents haven't happened, just because of the complexity of the endeavor.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030117.html

Doesn;t mention any pre-gagarin stuff, but does show the Russians were not as safety-conscious as the Americans

Perfect start

Launch calms Racine astronaut's family

By PHILIP CHIEN Special to the Journal Sentinel

Sunday, January 19, 2003

Cape Canaveral, Fla. -- Although the national interest for Thursday's launch of the space shuttle Columbia was focused on the heightened security involving an Israeli astronaut's first flight, the family of Racine astronaut Laurel Clark had different worries.

But two minutes after the shuttle lifted off Thursday, her very anxious family let out a collective sigh of relief.

The shuttle, carrying Clark and six other astronauts, roared into space in a picture-perfect sky at 9:39 a.m. Racine time. Clark is a 1979 graduate of Racine Horlick High School.

After the launch, Clark's mother, Marge Brown, said: "It was very nice. I hope all of it goes as well as it did today.'

Brown and Clark's brothers and sister, Jon, Dan and Lynne Salton, got to spend a little time with Laurel Clark a couple of days before the launch at a party astronauts hold for their closest family members. The party was one of only a few relaxing moments for the family over the last few days.

Family members said the first few minutes of the launch had them very nervous.

"Anyone who has watched (video of the) Challenger (accident) can't even hardly bear going through" the point where the Challenger exploded, Jon Salton said. "After that point, you can relax."

Lynne Salton added, "When we saw the solid rocket boosters drop away, everything was still fine, my heart lifted a little, and then they got to main engine cutoff."

Dan Salton said, "It seemed after launch it hit me -- I was holding my breath for 10 minutes."

The one who misses Clark the most is her 8-year-old son. Marge Brown said her grandson asked her, "Why can't any of you go, then my mom won't have to go."

Lynne Salton said, "He wanted to see the launch, but he wanted one of us to go instead of his mom."

When Clark entered the shuttle's laboratory about 4 1/2 hours after launch, she said: "We're thrilled to be in this beautiful new laboratory and anxious to get going on 16 days just packed full of science from many, many disciplines."

For her first meal in space, Clark chose shrimp cocktail, tortillas, pineapple, cashews and orange-grapefruit drink.

:-( indeed.

ASTRONAUT HAS A NEW MISSION ON EARTH CHENEY GRADUATE TALKS TO AREA STUDENTS ABOUT THE GRAVITY OF MATH AND SCIENCE
Amy Scribner Staff writer
567 words
25 February 1998
The Spokesman Review
SPOKANE
B1
English

Michael Anderson admits even grown-ups goof off a little - especially when they're faced with the wonders of space.
"Every first-time flier can't resist playing with their food a little," the astronaut told Moran Prairie Elementary students Tuesday.
Anderson has been back on Earth for less than a month, but the 1977 Cheney High School graduate is already back in the Northwest.
He completed his maiden voyage into space aboard the shuttle Endeavor on Jan. 31. The Houston resident is spending a week in Spokane and Cheney, recalling for students his rendezvous mission with the Russian space station Mir.
On his first day in space, Anderson squeezed his strawberry drink into a perfect spherical drop that floated around the cabin. The crew also released handfuls of M&Ms, then scooped up the floating orbs with their mouths like fish.
Judging by the giggles in the audience, the kids could relate. Who wouldn't be tempted to fiddle around in weightlessness?
Moran Prairie students, many of whom have been studying flight in their classrooms, spent Tuesday morning wrapping their minds around some pretty amazing facts.
Anderson and his fellow crew members reached a comfortable cruising speed of 17,000 mph. That means that every 40 minutes, they got to see the sun rise, then set 40 minutes later.
The shuttle weighs in at 4.5 million pounds, Anderson told students. It takes 7 million pounds of thrust to get it into space.
"That feels like three Michael Andersons pushing on my chest," he told them.
Student Ian Braye found satisfaction in that answer.
"I really wanted to learn what it felt like to blast off," whispered the wide-eyed fifth-grader.
The astronauts' fun extended beyond playing with their food, Anderson said. They also got to interact with their Russian counterparts.
But mostly, he told students, the mission was hard work and 16-hour days.

Anderson served as flight engineer, monitoring shuttle systems and directing actions in case of an emergency. He also oversaw a project to test the feasibility of raising fish as a source of food on long space flights.
"I started preparing to be an astronaut a long, long time ago," he said. "Probably in second grade. Whatever you want to do in life, you're training for now."
Anderson visited Moran Prairie because of the persistence of parent Joe Bruce, a self-proclaimed "astronaut wannabe" who wrote to NASA in October to request a visit from Anderson. Anderson will visit Roosevelt Elementary today and return to his high school alma mater Friday.
He said his mission, once back on the ground, is to inspire kids about math and science, his two favorite subjects back in his school days.
Anderson went on to attend the University of Washington, where he received a degree in physics and astronomy.
He wants students to know they could be on a shuttle mission of their own, with hard work.
"Someday people will land on Mars," he told them. "I'll probably be too old by then, but you guys will be just about the right age."
Color Photo; Caption: Astronaut Michael Anderson answers questions Tuesday from students at Moran Prairie Elementary School. Photo by Colin Mulvany/The Spokesman-Review
Document sprv000020010918du2p002ye

The local news is showing everyone's digital pictures of debris and the streaking debris. etc.

this really is horrible.

I dunno, it seems they've been going up every 6-8 wks right? I get the NASA channel feed and watch it alot. They'll show images of the earth from the space station and let you listen in on the banter between the crew and Houston. It seems like as of late there's always a mission going on.

The crew of the ISS are supplied by unmanned russian spacecraft. they also have a Russian spacecraft with which they can return to earth.

It occurs to me that a lot of debris could have ended up in the Gulf of Mexico. They've found debris in Louisiana.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

News coverage of this has been depressingly bad, because in the end there's not much to cover: a minute's worth of video of the shuttle flaming out (looped endlessly), scattered debris, people sad and disappointed and, quite obviously, no immediate information on what exactly went wrong. There's hardly enough to be said to match people's sense of it being an important event: just a sad, unfortunate accident.

Has anyone else ever heard of this, and does anyone know if there's any proof whether it's true or not?

Caitlin, at this point there is no definitive proof that the Soviet's lost any cosmonauts during launch, orbit, or landing, prior to the launch of Gagarin. However, the Soviet's have acknowledged the loss of Valantin Bondarenko, who was part of their early cosmonaut training program, who was lost on the ground. He was in a sealed room, that was pressurized with 100% oxygen. The room was isolated for several days, while Bondarenko underwent various medical experiments. The last day of the testing, Bondarenko used cotton balls, soaked in alcohol, to remove some of the adhesive that was being used to attach various sensors to his body. He tossed one of the cotton balls aside, and it landed on a hot plate that he had been using to heat his food while in the sealed chamber. The hot plate was active, and a flash fire occurred. Bondarenko survived the fire, though it took some time for the oficials to access the chamber, because of pressurization problems. However, he later died from the burns he received. Sadly, if the Soviets had publicized this loss, the Americans might not have lost the three Apollo 1 astronauts - they were sealed in their command and control capsule, at the top of a Saturn rocket on the pad, pressurized with 100% oxygen when a fire swept through their cabin, killing all three. Both the 100% oxygen atmosphere and the pressurization/hatch difficulties led to deaths in both cases.

There have been many rumors and discussions about whether Gagarin was the first Soviet to be launched. However, no conclusive evidence has yet been presented to prove this rumor, though there are some strong arguments to be made in favor of validating the gossip.

scary thing to think about: there are still 3 american astronauts on the space station. In a few weeks a flight will have to be made to resupply or rescue them.

I know this has been kind of answered, but here's some more information: There are three astronauts on the ISS, but one of them is Russian - the three currently in orbit are Commander K. Bowersox; Flight Engineer N. Budarin; Flight Engineer D. Pettit.

The shuttle Columbia, being the oldest in the fleet, was used for science missions - it has been relegated as such and is not used for flights to the ISS, to carry crews and/or additional parts for assembly. There is a Progress resupply vessel slated for launch tomorrow, from Baikonour, that will take food and needed supplies to the crew in orbit. The crew can make it until June with the current supplies on-board the ISS. In the event of an emergency, the crew can leave in the Soyuz spacecraft that is attached to the ISS - as part of the safety measures, there is always a spacecraft docked with the ISS, that can carry to earth the astronauts in orbit. However, the Soyuz can only carry three people, which is why the only time you will see larger numbers of people on the ISS is when the Space Shuttle is docked with the station. The Soyuz is replaced every six months, with a new/refurbished craft being launched to the station each time.

From what i have heard, if the heat tiles are not put in in a certain way, they can malfunction rather easily.

The heat tiles are a highly complex portion of the shuttle insulation. The tiles are composed of different materials depending on where they will be placed and the amount of heat and distress they will experience during the mission. For more basic STS information, please see the following website: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/basics/index.html

... its 21 years old! That's why!

The shuttles were not meant to be flying this long. When they were originally designed, it was assumed that the STS program would soon be followed by other, better means of accessing space. It is amazing that they have functioned so flawlessly for so long. It is a testimonial to their design, their upkeep, their refurbishment, and to the team that is dedicated to providing safe ships for our space travelers.

Bush actually said some things that I could agree with. You cannot argue with the courage of the people who sit on top of rockets and go into space.

Yeah, I was able to agree with him too, which really surprised me. Somehow he's grown a bit in my mind, for whatever that is worth.

Do they not sit 'in' the rockets? Sitting on rockets is utter madness, no?

It's kind of a matter of semantics of the "in" or "on" regarding the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Vostok, Voskhod, and Soyuz programs - in all of those programs, the astronauts were situated in chambers/crew quarters/modules that were located at the "top" of a rocket, later to be separated from the part of the rocket that held the fuel that moved the spacecraft into space.

But the Space Shuttle astronauts do not sit in or on a rocket. They sit in the shuttle, in the crew cabin. The shuttle orbiter (the part of the shuttle system that looks like a white plane with a black belly) is attached to the external tank (the large orange tank) and the two solid rocket boosters (the two white skinny rockets that sit on either side of the external tank). After the fuel has been expended from the solid rocket boosters, they are "blown" and fall back to earth, landing in the Atlantc Ocean, where they are recovered and brought back to the Cape for refurbishment and reuse. The external tank also empties itself of fuel and is separated from the orbiter over the Indian Ocean. The tank breaks apart as it reenters the atmosphere and is not recovered or reused. The orbiter, of course, is reused.

Thank you all for the warm thoughts - it's been a horrid day (I'm sitting in a friend's office, typing this while waiting for another briefing - it's horribly quiet and somber here - everyone is walking around looking shell-shocked and sick. And all of our eyes are red-rimmed. I feel for those who are with the families - there is little comfort that can be given at such times. I just pray that they know how many people are grieving with them). Be well and take care of each other, okay? Life is precious.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Evolution_of_Technology/TPS/Tech41G2.htm

Each time something tragic hits the news, I go through a shock of disbelief. It takes the reactions of other people, I think, to make it feel real.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/032/nation/Columbia_streaks_toward_Florid:.shtml

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) With security tighter than usual, space shuttle Columbia streaked toward a Florida touchdown Saturday to end a successful 16-day scientific research mission that included the first Israeli astronaut.

meanwhile, they're beginning to find remains (no photos, thank God, but still grim reading) - http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/space/1761217

When I was a kid -- I guess I must've been 14 -- I went to MIT for a lecture/etc. celebrating the 20th anniversary of the moon landing. Both my parents are MIT alumni, and the thing was open only to alumni, students, and faculty, so my dad brought me and I used my mother's class ring to get in (presumably they didn't notice the "class of 1965" part).

Anyway -- the thing which stuck with me from that was when one of the guys, I forget who but he was at the time a big wig at NASA, said the space shuttle was the best and worst thing which ever happened to the space program: it was amazingly good, amazingly efficient, and a huge success from a technical standpoint ... but it created the illusion that further work didn't need to be done, and Congress became less willing to provide funding accordingly.

I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Thank you, all of you, for your emails and posts on here and everything. It's been a shitty 36 or so hours, from my point of view. But things are already starting to look toward the future, and for that I am extemely thankful. We gathered last night and sent them off with a rip-roaring, fall-down drunk party - I like to think that they were watching us and laughing.

We pretty much decided, at some point last night, that if they had to go, that was the way. They were at the height of their lives - they were living their dream - they'd just spent 15+ days in orbit around this fragile little ball that we call home. The experiments that they conducted did yield valuable data and that shall be their legacy. Just to think that they were on their way home, that they were riding the high of their accomplishments, that they knew they'd done remarkable things, and then to have it over, instantly, right while they're at that emotional, euphoric high. I don't think that I'd mind going that way. And no, I am not saying that it is "right," or anything else. But it's not the worst way to go, by my accounting.

I have been thinking today, while avoiding the shuttle news and looking at world events, instead, of what I. Ramon said during one of his interview downlinks with reporters. To paraphrase his words: He wished that the Middle East was as peaceful on the ground as it appeared from orbit.

Every space traveler reports the same experience - to look back at the earth and realize just how fragile everything is - to not see borders and boundaries between countries and methodologies - but to see as all as one people, struggling to learn what it means to be human and where we fit in, in this amazing and incredibly fragile planet that we call our home.

So, maybe, just maybe, we can hold those thoughts in our minds as we face this time of sorrow for the crew members and the fear and anger at the thought of another senseless war. We are all one. We need to embrace and love each other and we need to learn to see beyond the surface differences and to absorb the similarities.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030210-418518,00.html (from this week's Time)

http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030210_120.jpg

(Moderator thinks: for future disaster-news posts, maybe we should have a two-thread rule, one for news and sympathy, the other for reaction/conjecture (and yes glib jokes which are a reaction-mechanism as human as any other) - both are desirable on the board but some people wanting the one may feel very inflamed by the other.)

(In regard to the link, if you've not been there before the NY Times will make you log in, but it's free and it's a cinch.)

I heard the other day that NASA's three astronaut fatalities all have been at the end of January - Apollo 1 on Jan 27th, Challenger on January 28th and now Columbia on 1st February. Freaky as hell.

http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2003/02_Febbraio/03/20030203--240x180.jpg

The fissures could have been provoked

With regard to the disaster "the cracks on the wing of the Shuttle" the Israeli newspaper public Maariv an image taken from the edge television camera during the telephone call between Sharon and Ramon.

JERUSALEM - the Israeli daily paper Maariv has published today a photo of the Shuttle Columbia released during the fifth day of its tragic mission, that it could try the existence of two important cracks on its left wing.

The IMAGE - the release has been gained to leave from the resumptions of a television camera that was found to edge of the shuttle, and that it has been used in occasion of one telephone call between the first Israeli minister Ariel Sharon and Ilan colonel Ramon, the first astronaut of Jerusalem.

The TELEPHONE CALL - During the conversation, Ramon had intentended to share with Sharon the show of the Earth seen from the space. The television camera then has framed the Planet and wings of the Shuttle, comprised the left wing and those that today seem to be two long fissures.

I know what you meant when you said this, nits; ie that this has no inherent political dimension but surely this has in it some politicising aspect.

This is very sad news; and I hope you're ok Laura.

(That sniper thread was phenomenally interesting, N. - if only because you were honest.)

I am torn about the idea of having a two-thread policy for disaster-related topics. Initially it sounds ideal, as the idea of not having to read offensive posts (well, offensive to some readers, that is) is appealing. But on deeper thought, I'd vote against such a system. Why? Because this board is about give and take and educating each other and sharing knowledge and ideas. If a policy is instituted that effectively separates disparate viewpoints, then one of the major strenghts and appeals of the board is then negated.

Am I upset by some postings, not just related to this tragedy? Of course. I think most are, regardless of which viewpoint they embrace. But I am all for people being able to say whatever they think and believe. Conjecture is rather horrible, but those who have more knowledge can propose different arguments and conclusions and establish a dialogue that might not sway everyone's thoughts, but that might start some people thinking in a different manner, which is what I have tried to do here and on a few other threads. I do not profess to know everything nor to know the "right" answers or anything else. But I do have some opinions and beliefs, and when I read something that contradicts those beliefs, then I post a different argument and/or conclusion. If I can start a serious dialogue, then I am content.

About the image that gygax posted - I'd not seen this before, but I had heard discussions of concern related to the possible damage on the left wing, likely related to the loss of the insulating foam on the External Tank during the launch of the mission. The horrible thing is that even if it was known and accepted that there was such a problem, there was nothing that could be done, near as I can tell and near as I have heard. Columbia was on a science mission, so it didn't have a docking adaptor, which means that even if another spacecraft (a Russian Soyuz, the ISS, another shuttle) were sent to meet the orbiter in orbit, they could not "hook-up." This is one of the known risks that the crew knows and accepts when they are selected for astronaut training.

NASA's first concern is always toward safety, plain and simple. Following the loss of Challenger, safety was again pushed to the forefront of all decisions. But the unavoidable fact is that space travel is a risky pursuit. Placing humans into a hostile environment carries with it a certain level of risk. Those risks are mitigated as best as can be done with the current technology available.

Here's a little know fact about the manned spaceflight program: Before every shuttle mission the astronauts on that mission meet, individually, with two unassuming men (yes, men, I don't know that a woman has ever held this job). The job of these two men? They sit at a pannel, during a shuttle launch, with their fingers poised over buttons that will "blow" the shuttle, solid rocket boosters, and external tank, should the craft veer off course during the initial moments following launch, posing a threat to any populated areas. Shitty job, eh? The astronauts meet with these men, shake their hands, hug them, etc. And they say "If you need to end this mission to save people on the ground, then I forgive you. You will do the right thing. I have faith in that, I understand, and I do not want you to have any second thoughts about your decision. I trust that you will do what is right." I don't know that I could say that to someone. And I do not know that I could make a decision to destroy a shuttle and those astronauts lives. But this shows how serious NASA is about safety and what precautions have been put into place. Not only are they looking at the safety of the people on the ground, but they are also concerned with the mental health of the two people who might have to make such a split-second decision.

I saw some posts, not on this thread I don't think, but elsewhere, about international news coverage of this disaster. I think that the vast majority of people do not realize the impact of the space program on daily life for all of us. One of the main duties of NASA is to "spinoff" technological advances developed as a result of the space program. These spinoffs are commerical applications for these new technologies. Most of us know that Velcro is a direct spinoff, and also the dried fruit drink, Tang. But did you know that those cool and comfortable "air walk" tennis shoes that you so adore are also a result of the space program? Yeah, they were developed using technology used to design the boots for the Apollo moon walkers. Some more spinoffs:

- Emergency Rescue Cutters: Lightweight cutters for freeing accident victims from wreckage developed using NAS pyrotechnic technology
- Self-Righting Life Raft: Developed for the Apollo program, fullyinflates in 12 seconds and protects lives during adverse weather conditions with self-righting and gravity compensation features
- Digital Imaging Breast Biopsy System: Called stereotactic large-core needle biobsy, this nonsurgical syste developed with Space Telescope Technology is less traumatic and greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies
- Programmable Pacemaker: Incorporating multiple NASA technologies, the system consists of the implant and a physician's computer console containing the programming and a data printer - it communicates via wireless telemetry signals
- Vice-Controlled Wheelchair: NAS teleoperator and robot technology used to develop chair and manipulator that respond to 35 one-word voice commands utilizng a mini-computer to help the patient perform daily tasks, like picking-up packages, opening doors, and turning on appliances
- Tollbooth Purification- A laminar air flow technique used in NASA clean rooms for contamination-free assembly of space equipment is used at tollbooths on bridges and turnpikes to decrease the toll collector's inhalation of exhaust fumes
- Scratch-resistant Glass Lenses: A modified version of a dual ion beam bonding process developed by NASA involves coating the lenses with a film of diamond-like carbon that not only provides scratch resistance, but also decreases surface friction, reducing water spots
- Golf Ball Aerodynamics: A recently designed golf ball, which has 500 dimples arranged in a pattern of 60 spherical triangles, employs NASA technology to create a more symmetrical ball surface, sustaining initial velocity longer and producing a more stable ball flight for better accuracy and distance. (For further information, see http://technology.ksc.nasa.gov or go to the main NASA website http://www.nasa.gov and perform a search on "spinoffs." This information was quoted from the Kennedy Space Center Publication - DE-TPO.)

This list is virtually endless. So that is part of why there has been such international coverage of the disaster. Other factors are the rarity (thank goodness!) of such an occurance, the spectacular end, the human factors, the money-issues, and so forth. The space program does have an impact on most of our lives, though we are not normally aware of that impact. I can understand why there is so much coverage. But at the same time I can understand that disgruntlement - wanting to know what happens "at home" before what happens internationally. I do not blame people for being put-off by the coverage.

Thank you all, again, for your kind words and support. I'm a newcomer here, but I already feel like I have found some good people who will become friends.

Please, continue this discussion - talk about the program, talk about funding, talk about what spaceflight means to you - what comes to mind when someone talks about manned or unmanned spaceflight. Pay tribute through learning and exploring new avenues of knowledge and thought.

- Laura

Ten years ago today. This thread still makes for grim reading.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/02/the-audacious-rescue-plan-that-might-have-saved-space-shuttle-columbia/

30 years since challenger

one of those 'i remember exactly how i heard' moments for me : /

For some reason my second-grade classroom was not watching it, so I didn't hear about the disaster until I walked down to the parent meet-up point to meet my mom after school.

As traumatic as this was to me as a kid, it could have been even more so.

on NASA's coverup

http://www.lutins.org/nasa.html

http://gawker.com/thirty-years-ago-the-challenger-crew-plunged-alive-and-1755727930