Lesbian Conversion Question

The "lesbian conversion" scenario is such a common fantasy among men that it's just silly. The male Fag Hag is an existing phenomenon.

No. No no no no no no no no no no no! Because that film doesn't explain why lesbian conversion is a stupid and useless thing to dream of, it just explains that if you act like a total cockfarmer you'll get what's coming to you. Also, Kevin Smith is crap.

It would have been more interesting or emotionally honest or accurate if it had been made by a woman from the girl's perspective but hey. Ain't that just life? It's interesting to discover how men really think.

I think maybe I should become a lesbian, I think I'd be happier and more emotionally fulfilled. My dilemma is, how do I start finding women more sexually attractive? (Or maybe I should start dating women that look like dirty dronerock boys?)

Oh, wait...

My slash porn is never so vulgar.

Dude, your penis is in Rimini. Only girls believe in astrology.

I can't imagine not being sexually attracted to women so my advice is prolly useless but:

imagine touching/licking/rubbing oil into a body - obviously a woman's body is more enticing to do this to than a man's, what with being smoother and sleeker and softer and have lovely curves and crevasses and gentle mounds and folds...

then think about what gets you off the most in bed: if, like many women, it's having your breasts fondled and cunnilingus then you can be well satisfied by a woman. If it's digital penetration, likewise. If you like a good dicking then, well, I dunno, would a dildo do?

Dammit, I've been fighting it all my life, I want to give up! Make me gay, please! Life would be so much easier if I were gay! But why do boys have to be so CUUUUUUTE? Puppies are cute, but I don't want to sleep with them!

Except, like, when they curl up at the end of your bed and nudge up next to you and they're so warm and fuzzy and they try to get under the blankets with you, and my mum used to check on me when I was a wee girl, and at the bottom of the bed, she'd see this strange lump under the slumberdown with a spotty head sticking out where my dalmation had crawled into bed with me, but alas, he gave me fleas.

What was the question?

Oh yeah, why can't I be gay? I just don't get off thinking about womens bodies. I've tried, I've looked at lots of naked women, I've even gone to bed with quite a few women, but it's just not the same. When I lean up against someone, I want to see a flat, hard, wall of a chest in front of me, I like the physical boniness and angularity of mens bodies, I like the weird alien oddness of penises, and no, dildos don't do, because they don't change and grow and all the fascinating things that veins and skin and hair and bollocks do.

I dunno. I like to say that sexuality is totally fluid and that you can't define it but if you have to *try* to be gay, then it's just not you.

:(

I like phalluses! they're great! Sometimes I think it'd be really cool to have one. But that's what my Danelectro is for. ;-)

The point, as I wish I could remember who said originally, is that the approach to the question that's likely to get you the best answer isn't "are you bisexual?" or "are you interested in men at all?" but "are you interested in me at all?"

A deep fissure, as in a glacier; a chasm.
A crack or breach in a dike or levee.

Seems rather appropriate, doesn't it?

Anyway, Kate, I think yrr right. And the same with being straight. I can't say I can understand how you could not be totally entranced by women but then you prolly don't understand how I'm not by men. Neway, I somewhat doubt that being lesbian is any easier than being straight. I think it's just all life/love that's too hard.

-- Wintermute (wintermute_v0.3...), February 9th, 2003.

this is the best response i've read on ILE! i wonder what ptolemy or kepler are thinking right now?

That's what i want Angela to be beaming at the end of all this, but I know its really unlikely. I am not trying to be all "silly" though, I mean I remember writing a 7 page paper on Chasing Amy freshman year, but I don't remember at all what it was about. Doesn't Kevin Smith's new film feature JLo?

I guess the opposite - girl becoming lesbian *after* she dates you - is worse than this situation

Oh and if you want to become a lesbian, just keep on dating male assholes who make you realize how much more loyal women are to you in relationships (if they are), and this will promt an emotional breakthrough. The physical will ideally follow (the biggest erogenous organ is the mind).

anyway this is a huge tangent. back to lesbianism. i can start a thread on transmigration of spirits if you wish

Some souls incarnate as stars and planets... ah! So that explains Hilton Betelgeuse, he *is* a reincarnated star, ah, I see... it all comes clear now.

Oh, the synthesised handclaps in early New Order remixes, they make life WORTH LIVING!!!

Astronomers making a living as astrologers, search and destroy... Carl Sagan had chapters and chapters on this in Cosmos, I remember. I love quasi-science! Astrology, alchemy, numerology, bring it on! I suppose it's the illuminatus in me.

I guess realizing that you caused the men to discover their true orientation must, on an abstract level, at least make you feel like you did a good deed. But on a personal level I guess there's no way it could not hurt, since self-blame is unavoidable. Of course, if you ever saw the guy date a girl after telling you that you turned him gay, that would be unforgivable. Do you think you could at least love a woman or feel emotionally attracted to her, without finding her sexually appealing ?

Point by point... if the relationships had been happy ones, I suppose there would have been an element of self blame. But for once, it was actually a relief, more like "Oh, I always thought it was something wrong with *me* - but it's not me, you're just gay! What a relief!"

I don't know what I'd do if one of my gay exes turned up with a woman again. Actually, then again, one of them did, but the girl he turned up with identified herself as a lesbian, so I just thought "God, you two are both so confused, you deserve each other, I hope you're very happy."

To be explicit, I *have* loved women, I *DO* love women, some women I love in very intense, very emotional, quasi-romantic ways. This is why it would be *easier* for me to be a lesbian (Sorry, Toraneko, I didn't mean to imply that life would be peachy keen just instantly if I become gay, I hope I did not seem dismissive) - because I do very easily form intense emotional bonds with women that just never seem to happen with men. (Well, not men that return the feeling ... oh, except for the creepy scary wifebeating psycho, but we don't talk about him.)

I suspect that a lot of women who go through the "D.U.G." phenomenon (Dyke Until Graduation) are responding to that, to the intensity of female bonding, to the sense of community. That was one of the many things about Chasing Amy that hit home for me. One day, you're a card carrying lesbian, you're having girly fun with your lover and your mates, and then one day you fall in physical lust with a MANG and boom! you've lost your community, your identity, everything!

Anyway, to get back to your situation, Vic, I suppose what would help you out is to find out if her attraction to women is based on an emotional connection (which was what my brief - if you can call two years brief - flirtation with lesbianism was) or, like Toraneko, she just really gets the physical yumyum hots for girlskin.

If it's the former, yeah, you stand a chance, if you're willing to *be* girly and open and emotional and sensitive and all. One of my friends - actually this guy Jesse who I am starting my new musical project with - is a classic male fag hag (what do you call a male fag hag? A dyke hike?) because he's like this.

Anyway, your description or explanation of why some girls go gay is interesting. Do you think it applies to men too, in an inerted way: it's all subtle and covert and repressed, but the intense homoerotic nature of fraternities, which vanishes forever once the guy gets "serious" with a woman. Woman = end to male bonding, theme that has endlessly been described in 20th books and even music. I can't say if there's any truth to it, I mean it seems like it's all done in retrospect: the romanticization of the bonds, after they've been "broken" by the member of the opposite sex (usually when the glimmer of the romance starts to fade).

I don't even anticipate getting to know Chaunte/Angela that well, I mean it just seems really distant as I'm still so new there. As I'm already emotionally er, involved (in the most negative of ways) with some members of my own sex (yes, I'm bi, no, I haven't started fantasizing 'bout foursomes yet..well, actually now that I) I know I have more than enough on my plate to start eating some of that stuff. How did this turn into another food metaphor? i was just curious if any other men here have "succeeded" with girls who previously identified themselves as "for-women-only."

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, lost it at the laundrette.

I suppose, instead of saying "I wish I were gay..." I should be saying "I wish I were able to have an EMOTIONAL relationship with a guy.

I suppose the fact that I find *that* more impossible to believe in than the idea that I could get that POW! physical attraction to a woman that I just don't biologically have, is really telling and indicative of something, but I just don't know what.

"I'd rather be in Rimini."

But here's my tip re: lesbianism. You have to knead pizza dough, tons of it, with lots of olive oil. That will get you slender, soft yet muscular hands you can dip in honey and throw you-know-where. And don't eat the pizza yourself, give it to your co-worker instead. That way she'll get fat and her girlfriends will leave her so you can listen to her sobbing, comforting her, blowing her nose with your golfball-crushing power fingers.

Er.

You're such an introspective person, that's always very attractive! And yes, there's a difference between introspective and self-obsessed, believe me.

Oh and don't mention the word "biological" too loudly 'round here, remember how scary it got on that gaydar thread?

Like most artists/manic depressives, I fly back and forth between excessive and exaggerated self belief, and utter despair and self loathing. Usually both at the same time. To truly know me, and therefore love me, a person would have to be able to understand and even accept BOTH.

This is just never going to happen and I have to accept it. :-(

i mean, maybe she likes butch women, so this is probably bad advice. don't listen to me, listen to M.

!!

boys are yum.

Vic, be you. If hot-aliciakeys thinks you're yum. she'll let you know.

*slurp*

I've known a few people who had a similar arrangement--gay men who had sex with lesbians regularly. It makes sense to me--you're still having "gay sex" haha, but you're also satisfying a fairly specific physical desire minus certain potential issues (leading someone on to think you've "converted" or somesuch).

As far as the original question goes, I think Douglas said it best. I've never really dated a lesbian, though I've slept w/a couple of women who were basically bi but leaned mostly (like 80%) toward girls. My hands may have factored in, but those relationships were so briefly-lived I never did ask follow-up questions about them.

I just watched this movie KISSING JESSICA STEIN. Has anyone else seen it? People told me it would be very bad but it really wasn't that bad. It had Blossom Dearie on the soundtrack.

It's very bad.

Not as bad as her next movie though woowee.

btw it's about a lady who tries a lesbian relationship, in fact both of them do, for the first time, so I thought it was 'lesbian conversion' in some sense. But the title character seems to 'convert' back by the end, though her lovely lover does not.

No, it's really not that bad, compared to tons of other films.

That's quite a caveat.

not seen it since it came out, but as i'm not a massive john hamm fan, i'd like to see it again.

now*

Ira & Abby was the next movie I was thinking of.

wow @ pretty much every aspect of the original question

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2902/chloroform9tu4pk.jpg

Flip on, flippers.

Lesbian Conversation Question.

If Simon and Garfunkel were making albums today...

I've converted my car to run on LPG - Lesbian Petroleum Gas...

I'm watching the film again with a commentary by the two chicks in who also, gosh, wrote it! The film is really NOT that bad; I don't know why people (I don't mean ilx, but other people) are all so down on it. It's a bit like Woody Allen with better looking people in it.

i love Kissing Jessica Stein like few other movies.

Hurrah!!

theres only way way to get her. act like a girl, and mean it. its easy to tell when guys are faking being feminine just to entice you, so you have to be real about it.

― di smith (lucylurex), Sunday, February 9, 2003 1:41 PM (sixteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

wonder if Vic took this advice

tell her you have a gigantic clitoris.

― nathalie, Sunday, February 9, 2003 11:47 PM (sixteen years ago)

I hope he took this one

they were more innocent times