Reperations (sp)

Native Americans already benefit from no tax on reservations and all sorts of breaks relating to further education. It would be very difficult to pay various tribes for land, because in a great deal of cases European countries were the first Westerners to lay claim to the land and sell it to Washington. Could you imagine the US government slapping on interest to the original purchase prices of, say, Alaska (Russians) or the Louisiana Purchase (France) and then charging those coountries on behalf of the NA population? That is SO not going to happen.

Slavery reparations are even more abstract than either of those. The companies engaged in the slave trade would have to be located, families traced to individuals seized before any handing over to American 'owner' families, geneaology assessed. It will add insult to injury when the descendants of a single slave have to share what might turn out to be not very much money and looks like a total recipe for disaster.

Putting a cash value on verifiable but abstract long-ago cruelty is dissociative and sends a message that SOME people can buy their way out of anything and avoid (more important) their moral obligations. In cases like this I think it's just better to work on treating people with equanimity on an individual level.

After all bunging every black American twenty dollars ain't going to solve anything.

Err wow I would love to see any sort of sociological argument defending this statement, which I sort of see as the biggest line of racism in America today -- if today's blacks were "not affected" by slavery (and segregation) then their disproportionate poverty must be ... err ... congenital? Let's stick with the obvious causes: no, even in America communities do not suddenly spring back from centuries of deprivation just because you're no longer deliberately depriving them, and it's silly to pretend that the issue of race is "over" now: in the big picture it will take generations and generations to get things back on track.

The reparations argument never moves along because no one ever seems to understand what it calls for: the vast majority of people who favor them favor them in the form Pete mentions, i.e. targeted efforts like education, home-ownership programs, etc. to generally speed the process of blacks catching back up with the rest of the nation. Even calling this "reparation" is I think a red herring: I think this should be a basic part of American federal policy, not a special issue.

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[N]Bitsuh is right, any action taken shouldn't be seen as reparations as much as the only just thing to do for a group whose status is a direct result of years of discrimination. I would like to see these programs be open to economically disadvantaged people of all races, because I think pretty much every racial group in America gets fucked over on a regular basis, and a separate policy for each would be unwieldly.

I completely agree about targeting the disadvanged in general, though, largely because it blows up all arguments against race-based reparations: if centuries of policy have left blacks disproportionately disadvantaged, then targeting the disadvantaged should disproportionately correct for that discrimination against blacks -- all fair. Continuing de fact segregation in this country points in this direction as well -- improving poverty-stricken city communities has that correction effect without, again, having to do race-based picking-and-choosing as to who "deserves" reparation.

The racism that blacks endured during the years not only prevented the race from progressing forward to financial freedom, but from establishing a grasp of the american dream. During the 1870's, 80,90's when the industrial revolution was taking shape, black american's invented many of the equipment, contraptions and machines that made this country the great nation it is today. But they were unable to join in on the prosperity. Could not buy houses in certain areas as many cities and towns were White's only with small areas of land carved out for "Colored People". Check your history book as this is written. From 1900-1960 they could not obtain certain Jobs, could not obtain loans to start businesses, could not enroll in most educational institutions because of the "White's Only" rule, thus blacks could not realize the full potential of what it was to be an American. Blacks only wanted the right to be equal, but it never came. It never came until Civil Rights, which occurred 100 years after slavery ended. So while other americans took advantage of the american dream, blacks where forcefully and violently made to watch from afar.

Many mention that your forefathers came here on boats and made their mark in america. But did it ever occur to you that the playing field was not even. So while many races and cultures established the base of their financial empire, blacks could not participate. Blacks could not own a factory, could not put a business in white america. Could not play Professional baseball, Basketball and Football, let alone think about owning a team. Could not start a radio station or TV station, let alone create a manufacturing business that produced radios and TVs. If the law did not stop black Americans, which there were many laws restricting blacks from voting, owning land, and fighting in wars, then hooded Klansman clutching a riffle covered in a cowardly sheet sure made certain those things didn’t happen.

So while your grandfather opened or had the opportunity to open a shoe store in Manhattan called Bass Co. or started a department store called Macy's, or got a decent job making a decent living, mine was forced to clean shoes in front of the store because america made certain that was the only way he could take care of his family.

So yes, companies should be forced to pay reparations. It was because of slavery that CSX was able to establish itself as a major shipping line. If not for the transport of slaves, they would not have been able to purchase their trains. Aetna would not have billions in the bank to bankroll insurance had they not insured the slave trade. The slave trade is how Lords of London made their billions. It’s in their history, do your research and you will see.
Black america does not feel as if they are owed the world, just what was violently, illegally, and improperly stolen and withheld from us. Since Civil Rights, blacks have made great strides, but America has not properly addressed slavery and the great injustice, thus the reason for this cause. My grandfather was not german, but yet I am subjected to repeated references of the holocaust. I know what as done to the Native Americans was wrong. If whites are dealing with white guilt, maybe its part because of the injustice that occurred not only during slavery but also after slavery, and which continues today. What I don’t understand is how a person with supposed perfect vision cannot see, understand and what to change the continued problem. If you see a soda can turned upside down leaking its contents, it seems only right to turn it upside down and wipe up the mess, not just walk past it. Walking past it will leave a stain that cannot be cleaned, invite critters that no one wants to deal with and so on. What is so difficult about that? Blacks have made great moves not because the government has given them anything, but because of hard work and perseverance. Thus we are the american dream.

Wow ok what is this thread

Anyway, I was just wondering if there’s anyone doing work on the legal angle of this. Let’s say magically congress passes a reparations bill. Would it stand up to the many lawsuits that would follow? All the way up to the Supreme Court?

Probably better first to use that brainpower to try to save the Voting Rights Act and the reconstruction amendments