"young go-getters"

But yes.

So “young go-getters” = “Radio Shack Manager”?

also, they know which batteries my watch takes = they are demi-gods

Earlier today I had a meeting with my boss in which he loaded a bajillion new multi-faceted projects on my back. When I was complaining to the ladies, they said, "Oh! You're so lucky! I wish I were given that much responsibility!"

Please! Have some! It's on the house!

What do you mean 'a Schmirnoff'? The vodka? What did she think it was, fancy water?

(too many questions. sorry. not sorry or i'd go back and change it.)

I can't stand answer-every-question types, pleasers, mediocrities. There was a big interview in the Univ of M*nn's newsletter (where I work) with some kid who's a Rhodes scholar (pictured with rimless glasses and Oxford scarf). They give him the bullshittest q: "what lessons did you learn from your family?" and he ticked through every member with two "lessons" each! (how to love, be true to himself, etc) a) grr what I could do if I studied IR at Oxford b) this is the game you have to play and WIN to get there? Gross!

maybe one of those "schmirnoff ice" malt drinks
Yes, that's what it was.
She's... I don't know... naive??

Oh sorry, I have a job, I take shit so I can give shit one day, let me go slit my wrists?

The non-alcoholic girls described just sound like morons, not ambitious go-getters. They sound like the dumb temp we had at work. She was a sweet girl, and threw a wobbly when they asked her to be receptionist, as she was "an executive assistant". Her ability to file or answer multiple phones said otherwise. Those girls sound like her. They aren't ambitious or anything, they're just dummies who don't know they're dumb.

And I dress well, I just don't wanna cut my hair. What's the big deal? It's 2003.

people who strive to do good work and be successful

I never accused them of striving to do good work. My concept of the people who are the subject of this thread is that they have barely any idea of what 'good work' means. Striving to be successful maybe, but not by doing anything I would consider 'good work'.

Obv. yr concept of what/who I am talking abt and my concept of same are v.diff. - you seem to take 'young go-getters' as a term Jess is using to describe hardworking goal-oriented studious types of all stripes - I assume that since we are using the term to describe people we find worthy of derision, and therefore in this thread 'young go-getters' are actually a small subset of goal-oriented people who only work hard at looking good to the boss and are only interested in studying the various aspects of effective workplace sycophancy and machiavellian backstabbing.

I can't imagine you could read my posts to this thread and seriously think that I am referring to creatures bearing even a passing resemblance to 'people who strive to do good work'.

If you think that the poisonous invaders I am describing are simply phantoms of my imagination I can only assume that you have never worked in a large organization for any length of time over two weeks.

MILLAR: "I don't agree with nabisco at all and I think he misses the point. . . . We are arguing semantics."

I must say, though, I do sort of care about the semantic issue! Because "young go-getter" is traditionally a compliment, the sort of thing a manager would say about a new employee who strikes him or her as particularly industrious or dependable or hard-working. Reframing it as meaning "incompetent back-stabbing asshole" just seems mean for no reason. It's like saying "fucking spics are so lazy" then turning around and going "oh I don't mean Latinos as a whole, just the ones who are lazy." We already have a perfectly fine term to describe incompetent back-stabbing assholes: it's "incompetent back-stabbing assholes."

*steam escapes*

Actually sales in general have that quality, which I think is a great thing: it's a field full of those focused, ambitious working-class guys whose skill isn't educational but the pure ability to know a product and sell someone on it. And it's got to be awfully attractive, because if you're good at it you can start raking in loads of money when you're still really young, early twenties even.

I also sometimes admire people for having that skill, even the guys on Judge Joe Brown and such whose massive sales abilities are devoted to getting women to buy them stuff.

This is kind of what I was getting at by saying that certain ppl just "get off" on being successful in the way that others get off on, I don't know, working on art, reading philosophy books, etc. types of things most of around here consider "interesting."

Thinking of the older brother of my best friend from high school; he and his wife are both in sales - I don't think either of them actually finished college, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I could never understand how someone could enjoy this type of work, but they really love their jobs, they'll tell you they just love the chase of selling people on stuff. And Nabisco is right, it can be very finacially rewarding. It somewhat irritating to me because I worked in IT doing sysadmin, and they both worked for IT companies (Sun and a smaller software firm). They were making scads of cash (certainly more than I was), yet didn't know the slightest thing about computers. They just knew how to sell the stuff effectively; and people who are best at that can be invaluable to a company.

Also, I actually have a good friend whose sister just got married to a Radio Shack manager. I've never met the guy but if I do I'll be sure to report back.

Personally I can't stand the phrase. I would feel bloody condescended to if a boss used it to describe me. It's like spinster Aunt Mabel calling her teenage niece 'sensible' (which would make the niece sound like Margaret Thatcher). Which is probably why I feel it belongs back in the Man in the Grey Flannel Suit era.

No, I don't have any problem with hard work either, I've even been known 'in extremis' to indulge in it. But indulging in corporate bullshit games contributes nothing to the organisation or the world at large (except maybe massaging the boss's ego) and is therefore not 'work', hard or otherwise. So why should we admire it?

But Plastic Executive Smith (except some image-consultant would have made a hatful of money by advising him to change it to Smiith or something so his businss cards look better) one-upping Plastic Executive Jones is not a worthwhile activity that anybody else need give a rats in hell about.

The funny bit is that those disdainful people seem to overlap really heavily with the people who say that Western standards of living are dependent upon depriving everyone else of resources -- as if their ability to even dream of supporting themselves doing something non-mundane depends on anything but. It's a total American thing, too.

This sucks: I didn't pick up the legendary Immigrant Work Ethic but I bought all the philosophy?

Suppose I am an articled clerk or 'junior' at a law firm. My 'mentor' makes sure I'm working my arse off but I'm happy to do it because I'm learning stuff, gathering skills and knowledge that will stand me in good stead if I ever get the chance to nail Skase (or un-nail Lindy Chamberlain or the Guildford Five). All that filing and reading case notes is teaching me about being a lawyer. So I have no problem with it, even doing it at the weekends.

But if I start to feel that I'm only doing it to show the boss how Keen or Committed or what a Great Team Player I am, that I am being rewarded not in knowledge for the future but brownie points for the here and now, that is a whole different matter. It then falls into the same category as telling the boss what a great guy/inspiration he is, or pretending to like golf or jazz music or hang-gliding or ancient Mongolian history because you've heard He does, ie the category of Crawling.

It's not the actor that defines the morality of the act, it's the act itself and the motivation behind it. Plastic Executive Smiith (from previous post) may well have 'succeeded' (defined however he defines it) even without managing his Corporate Image to within an inch of its meaningful life. If so, the very best of luck to him, and proof that he needn't have bothered with all that other bullshit that caused carping critics like me to cast doubt on it.

diner/tobacco shop??

anyway that depends on who said it to you.

nabisco was pretty much the only person OTM on this entire thread, which I just reread from start to finish.

I think advertising is a cool industry. I work in marketing, btw.
-- Sean (saturns...), February 21st, 2003.

woo-hoo!

xxpost

And he... WORE a HAT
And he... HAD a JOB
And he... brought home the BAcon
So that no one knew
Mongoloid he was a mongoLOID!
His friends were unaware
Mongoloid he was a mongoLOID!
Nobody even cared!

Assuming, as is likely, I'll be looking for another job come summer, I am unsure as to whether to stay in the UC or not. Personally I still really dislike the idea of working a 'regular' job as such in the for-profit world, and frankly would prefer to be using what I've now learned over these past years here -- and to my pleasant surprise, I've realized that's quite a bit in quite a few different areas -- in something similar to what I'm doing (in terms of organizing information, making things hyperefficient, constantly improving what can be done as opposed to making one change and then never looking back), just at a higher level with more compensation and less layers to go through to get it done.

But this refers explicitly to the roof-over-head side of work in my life. In terms of writing, that's its own situation and I pursue that in different ways. Theoretically if I really wanted to be a go-getter I would be up in Seattle right now because -- and I don't think anyone would deny this, though I'm not saying this is the overt reason for its existing -- the EMP conference functions as a rock-crit SXSW in terms of networking and the like, as part of what else it offers. Am I missing out? Perhaps, but I'm not losing sleep over it, because I have been able to make various connections as I go while continuing steady if low-key AMG work.

this total "i like the way you think kid, you'll go far" coen bros. type. (and, helpfully, the hr guy at my new job).

arrgh kill kill kill