French Hypocrites

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Why are the French still a permmanent member of the un security counsel? The French were given that position by the us and england to be an allie not to be stabed in the back.The French did not stand up stand up to hitler, only appeased him, then who had to come and save thier ass.The french have the right to their opinon, but they are just a bunch of hypocrites, they only support iraq because of the billions of dollars of debt owned them.

― bob keef, Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

You're a bright young man. Have you considered a career in the State Department?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is it that when someone I agree with posts with misspellings and bad grammar I think they're being humorous, but when I someone I disagree with does the same I think they're a screaming moron?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

why even have them be a member if they should always agree w/US and UK?
Perhaps there should just be an empty seat for France and we should just assume that they agree w/everything we do. This would be easier than trying to persuade them to agree w/us.
Rest of World:"Has anybody asked France about this resolution?"
US/UK:"Why should we? They're just our bitch. Get back in the kitchen and cook me up some creme broule, bitch!"

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish oops ran the state department!!

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The French did not stand up stand up to hitler, only appeased him, then who had to come and save thier ass.

this is not entirely fair. during the 1930s successive French governments were quite keen on standing up to Hitler, but knew that their country was too weak to face him on their own. It was England's lack of fight that forced France into a position of appeasement.

And what did the USA do during that decade? Lecture europeans on the need to stand up to Hitler while doing nothing to help them, of course.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It's also worth remembering there wouldn't be a USA if it weren't for the French army and navy.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, why go back 200 years in history when going back 60 can make you feel all righteous and superior?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

ah! Donald Rumsfeld has discovered ILX!

(i'm absolutely no kneejerk French-basher, not even before Shrubya schlepped into D.C. but they didn't do jack shit for the poles or the czechs when Hitler invaded their countries [neither did the British, for that matter])

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

And as the utterly corrupt Jaques Chirac shakes hands and shows support for another murderous dictator, Robert Mugabe, French military are intervening with the government in their former colony, the Ivory Coast, forcing them into sharing power with the rebels. So much for their anti-'war' stance that the misguided protestors aplauded - of course they were too busy ranting banal anti-American rhetoric to listen to anyone.
The Franco-German pact in regards to Iraq is an attempt for, what the Guardian called "a peaceful invasion". In short it's a euro-occupation of Iraq and a carving up of the territory between them and entirely over the heads of the Iraqi people, who, surely, are suffering enough. The sanctimonious so-called activists have said nothing about any of this. Not that the actual, real plight of the Iraqi people is of any interest to them. Not unless they can use them as a patronising prop for their anti-American hectoring.
Anyone see the anti-'war' demo in Paris? Anyone see the pro-Saddam placards? The pro-Bin Laden placards? The many, many foul anti-semite messages? What did the protestors have to say about that? Nothing.

― DavidM (DavidM), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

the Americans didn't do much for the Czechs or the Poles either.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

He can't be serious, is the AAD troll bombing here now?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, why go back 200 years in history when going back 60 can make you feel all righteous and superior?

Oh thank god for the French, first they sold the U.S. the best part of the country for only $11 million dollars and then in the naval wars wore down the British troops who were in the process of kicking our asses all the way to Baltimore in the War of 1812.

I dunno why we keep 'em around . . . maybe because of their humoungous nuclear armory?

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

if the french are such vile hypocrites and anti-Semites, then why did so many vote against Jean-Marie Le Pen?

(DV: the Americans also didn't have a defense pact with the Poles and the Czechs, like the French did [the Little Entente, it was called]).

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that the actual, real plight of the Iraqi people is of any interest to them.

Not that it's of much interest to George W. Bush or Donald Rumsfeld, either.

― hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno why we keep 'em around . . . maybe because of their humoungous nuclear armory?

I thought it was for the baguettes.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

haha I know but I just enjoy in my unselfconsiously American way how the British kicked our asses all the way to Baltimore yet the war somehow ended in a tie.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

benjamin green is my favourite general

(if i got his name wrong then tuff)

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

it's nathanael greene and he won wars by running away

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

also moving among the ppl like a fish in water

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

This is what a Jewish Parisian witnessed on Saturday: "Iraqi and Palestinian flags were everywhere, and signs openly declared that the United States and Israel are Nazi regimes. One sign showed Bush with a Hitler mustache, and another featured Ariel Sharon slaughtering a Palestinian baby at a chopping block, with the words "Israel wants Palestinian blood." One of the rallying cries was "Kill Bush." Another, delivered in English, was "Hey Hey Ariel, Your stinking ass should go to jail." I kid you not. This rally was a display of anti-American and anti-Semitic sentiments the likes of which I have never before seen".

Again, Chirac welcoming Mugabe today. Sickening.

― DavidM (DavidM), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Not liking Bush or Sharon doesn't make one anti-American or anti-Semitic. I'm not a fan of Mugabe, does that make me anti-Zimbabwean?

― hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in '83 is pretty sickening to me.

― hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

This is what a Jewish Parisian witnessed on Saturday:

how does one say, en français, "to a man with a hammer, the world looks like a nail?"

(ditto what hstencil said)

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing but deaf ears as usual.

― DavidM (DavidM), Thursday, 20 February 2003 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't hear text on a computer screen. What was your point again?

― hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

we don't hear much now about the anti-semitism of the poles, the hungarians, or the baltic nations because ... well, because their governments are on Shrubya's side and are part of Rumsfeld's "New Europe." it's hard to slam the WWII-era Poles or Czechs for being "cowards" and "caving in" to the Poles, but one could just as easily say that about the Hungarians (remember Raoul Wallenberg?) or the people of the Baltic nations (many of whom welcomed the Nazis as "liberators" from Stalin) -- but we don't because their governments are on Shrubya's side and are part of Rumsfeld's "New Europe."

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"caving into the Nazis," I meant.

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

this whole wwii thing is a red herring, not fit to be argued against i don't think.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

we don't because their governments are on Shrubya's side and are part of Rumsfeld's "New Europe."

Well, yes, I think that's the point. If you were ~~The New York Times~~ Israel wouldn't you be a little more interested right now in who's backing U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East TODAY? I mean the U.S. was also anti-Jew back then but Israel has gotten over it somehow.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

haha I spurn Am.'s sage advice in the first of what I predict will be many such incidents

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I mean, how could those ungrateful French forget the US armed forces landing in France in June 1940 to help turn the tide against the invading German army and to save France from what could have been years of blood-soaked Nazi occupation in which hundreds of thousands of its people might have been tortured and killed, either because of their resistance to the occupiers or just being the wrong ethnic group in the wrong place at the wrong time... oh wait, you say there was no American intervention?

Damn.

That kind of makes this line of argument *ridiculous* as well as *irrelevant*.

And it kind of makes the people arguing on these lines look like, well, a bit like *scum*.

― Lord Byron Lived Here, Thursday, 20 February 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is backwards.

― felicity (felicity), Friday, 21 February 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Does the fact that the US played a significant part in the liberation of France 60 years ago mean that France should forever be the vassal of the US? What kind of Liberation would that be. This is such a fatuous argument it hardly worth my time even responding.

Look at it more as repaying the favour for pulling France and the UK back from the brink of great folly in 1956. I'll agree that the motives may be far from honorable but you can't really argue with the anti war stance.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 21 February 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

France didn't suffer 'a blood-soaked occupation' because they gave up their capital city without firing a shot. And the Jewish minority was in the wrong place because they'd settled in a country whose citizens voluntarily shipped them off to the gas chambers, something even Mussolini balked at doing with Italian Jews.

― jh, Friday, 21 February 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

yes david, we all know that france is just as bad as america. i see no difference between the two. different aims, same tactics

im anti-sharon. am i anti-semite?
im anti-bush. am i anti-american?
im anti-blair. am i anti-british?
im anti-saddam. am i anti-iraqi?

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 21 February 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

the second world war is quickly becoming the last refuge of the scoundrel

― pulpo, Friday, 21 February 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

NB if you want a real piece of French ingratitude, try De Gaulle's veto of British entry into the European Common Market, 1967. All the UK "we saved your goddamned ass you.. you... goose-torturers!" invective got exhausted in the furore over that, especially as the British had rescued de Gaulle from the Nazis, provided him sanctuary in London and re-instated him as French leader in 1945.

― pulpo, Friday, 21 February 2003 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the mugabe handshake thing. all the denunciation i've seen has made me a bit queazy. there appears to be a demand that there should be no dialogue with mugabe. isn't that an end to professional politics? i mean chirac made his distaste as clear as possible within the acceptable limits of the wider arena that had been arranged.

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 21 February 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"France didn't suffer 'a blood-soaked occupation' because they gave up their capital city without firing a shot."

Yes, of course. Life in occupied France was a doddle, really, with the occasional young resistance hothead being sent on their way with a clip round the ear and an indulgent chuckle by friendly rosy cheeked Gestapo bobbies on creaky bicycles.

Catch yerself on, for feurques sake.

"And the Jewish minority was in the wrong place because they'd settled in a country whose citizens voluntarily shipped them off to the gas chambers, something even Mussolini balked at doing with Italian Jews."

This is absurd. The deportation of French Jews occurred at the instigation of the occupying Nazis (and in Vichy territory, carried out by their puppet government), and it is revisionism of David Irving proportions to suggest otherwise.

France in the 1930s- Anti-semitism certainly around, but not to anything like Eastern European levels; no legal restrictions on the rights of Jews; A Jewish Prime minister, Leon Blum, elected 1936.

France under Nazi occupation- Legal restrictions on Jews as prelude to deportation to gas chambers.

Clear as day, really. Unless you enjoy gloating about the fate of European peoples under Nazi rule.

― Lord Byron Lived Here, Friday, 21 February 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

the Americans didn't do much for the Czechs or the Poles either.

They've done a lot for Pole-dancing, non?

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm skipping the content of many of these posts to answer the original, as well as confront a common US retardation with regards to this "French are stabbing us in the back" BS.)

The French, unlike the USA, have a sense of history. They're not "stabbing us in the back", they HAVE LEARNED FROM PAST MISTAKES, unlike the US who keeps making the exact same mistakes (violently overthrow the leadership of another country, creat unrest in that country, radicalize young fundamentalists, soon your US-friendly-appointed-leader is being disposed of, ad nauseum to infinity).

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

during the 1930s successive French governments were quite keen on standing up to Hitler, but knew that their country was too weak to face him on their own. It was England's lack of fight that forced France into a position of appeasement.

And what did the USA do during that decade?

They actively participated in commerce with Germany, actually, as America was keen on remaining neutral (in order to maintain trade with both sides of the conflict).

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i <3 Marcello

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually DavidM there were posts showing concern over some of the anti-Israeli sentiments on the protest threads.

That said, Gareth is OTM. Being anti-Sharon isn't even being anti *Israel* let alone anti-Semitic.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

b-but they are the GREATEST GENERATION

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Being anti-Sharon isn't even being anti *Israel* let alone anti-Semitic.

There are so few people who get this. Thanks for making me feel not-alone.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't follow politics much, but didn't the French sign a resolution that said they'd help enforce the Gulf War treaty? Or did the resolution I'm thinking of say something different?
If we deserve criticism for acting like a 'cowboy', then I think they deserve criticism for not keeping to their promises. However, I don't think we should sever ties with them or bash all French people for everything their leaders have done throughout history.
Calling them 'pussies' or 'wimps' is ridiculous. Do you think French leaders are physically scared of going to war? Hell no, since none of them would actually have to fight.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha.

I don't follow politics much, but followed by 99 word politically-based argument. You have done yourself proud!

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think what I said needed a tremendous amount of political knowledge for a base. Common sense, really.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I can never muster the energy to post to these threads unless someone says something controversial. I don't trust my bank of knowledge on these subjects to support me if the going gets tough. The most I would trust myself to post is: ‘I’m not really politically minded’.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

But you find the energy to criticize others' posts, eh?

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't criticising, I was commenting! I've said why even. It was the *antithesis* of criticism.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry then, but does anyone else think it sounded like negative criticism?

I'm not politically minded either. That's why I asked questions to start with, in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable could support or refute what I've heard.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought she was complimenting you.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I would've too, had it not been for the "ha ha"

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

that was a friendly laugh.

well it might have been.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

No DV. You are wrong. I am a beast. *sigh*

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I still love you

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks. Friends again?

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Again, for the very first time

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 February 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

This is a beautiful moment.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Over it now. I'm off.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 21 February 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Enforcing the post gulf war treaty does not necessarily mean going to war now or at any time soon.

― Ed (dali), Saturday, 22 February 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif
10Things I like about the French: 1. Possess superior attitudes that wrestled from them with a little arm twisting. 2. Usually don't smell as bad as Eastern Europeans. 3. Their men don't mind being called faggots. 4. Can be used as environmental controls for common garden pests like snails. Give Frenchy a stick of butter and a few cloves of garlic and your Victory garden will be the pride of Elm Street. 5. Gave the world its most treasured dish, the French fry. 6. Their women don't mean being called Frogs if you have American cigarettes on you. 7. They haven't placed a Pope in the Vatican in quite a while. 8. Get a lot of WHINE TIME but really can't show any real proof to the world that they are good at anything except WHINING. 9. Quick at learning German. 10.More female underarm hair per capita than any other nation on earth except Romania. http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif

― Gabacho, Saturday, 22 February 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif
10Things I like about the French: 1. Possess superior attitudes that can be wrestled from them with a little arm twisting. 2. Usually don't smell as bad as Eastern Europeans. 3. Their men don't mind being called faggots. 4. Can be used as environmental controls for common garden pests like snails. Give Frenchy a stick of butter and a few cloves of garlic and your Victory garden will be the pride of Elm Street. 5. Gave the world its most treasured dish, the French fry. 6. Their women don't mean being called Frogs if you have American cigarettes on you. 7. They haven't placed a Pope in the Vatican in quite a while. 8. Get a lot of WHINE TIME but really can't show any real proof to the world that they are good at anything except WHINING. 9. Quick at learning German. 10.More female underarm hair per capita than any other nation on earth except Romania. http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif

― Gabacho, Saturday, 22 February 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, when you put it that way...

― Skottie, Saturday, 22 February 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Go back to Fark.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 22 February 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Herr Nate,

Is Fark anywhere near your ass?

― Zuleben, Saturday, 22 February 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, you loved Gabacho's post that much you're sticking up for him with... er... that?

Christ. Googlers sometimes, man...

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 22 February 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

nate you will be astonished to learn that gabacho and zuleben are the same person

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 February 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought #9 was kind of funny.

― felicity (felicity), Saturday, 22 February 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

B-b-but "Gabacho" is all Spanish-sounding and stuff! That's not German!

Maybe I was just thrown off by the astounding non-insult of Zuleben's post. "anywhere near your ass"? At least I can go around calling myself "Herr Nate" now.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 22 February 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Ay...pinche cabronitos... no soy un jodotito de Aleman.

― Gabacho, Saturday, 22 February 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

he's even clever in Spanish

― Millar (Millar), Saturday, 22 February 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Herr Mark,

Ich bin nicht ein spanischer Kartoffellandwirt.

― zuleben, Saturday, 22 February 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think mark said anything abt potato farming

― Millar (Millar), Saturday, 22 February 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

everything i ever wrote is really mainly about potato farming, i think

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 February 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

But can't it be a bit about hats?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 23 February 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 23 February 2003 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Get thee to AIM now sinkah!

― Graham (graham), Sunday, 23 February 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i don't know how :(

plus time for bed

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 23 February 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

post anything cool on ilx

(maybe not on this thread in particular)

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 23 February 2003 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

twelve years pass...

Greenwald:

"The absurdity of France’s celebrating itself for free expression was vividly highlighted by this week’s decision from that nation’s highest court, one that is a direct assault on basic free speech rights. The French high court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 political activists for the 'crime' of advocating sanctions and a boycott against Israel as a means of ending the decades-long military occupation of Palestine. What did these French criminals do? This:

The individuals arrived at the supermarket wearing shirts emblazoned with the words: “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel.” They also handed out fliers that said that “buying Israeli products means legitimizing crimes in Gaza.”

In France — self-proclaimed Land of Liberté — doing that makes you a criminal."

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/27/criminalization-of-anti-israel-activism-escalates-this-time-in-the-land-of-the-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-march/

― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 27 October 2015 18:13 (nine years ago)

three weeks pass...

I thought was a fair point at the time. Do I still think it's a fair point. Probably not quite the right thread to bump tho

― cardamon, Thursday, 19 November 2015 19:08 (nine years ago)

Re: morbs link, not the op

― cardamon, Thursday, 19 November 2015 19:08 (nine years ago)

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