Can hygiene go too far?

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Advances in personal hygiene technology are harder to ignore than those in most other fields of human endeavor. Sure, each new advance starts off as a specialty -- an opportunity for the hygiene elite to be Fresher Than The Next Guy -- but soon enough, it's just another part of the minimum expected regimen for continued acceptance in polite society. Two decades from now, not going out of one's way to chemically whiten one's teeth may be viewed as actively disrespectful to one's peers. In America, anyway. Home of the dental-hygiene master race.

But can hygiene go too far? I know, I know there were probably guys who looked at toothpaste and deodorant and said something to the effect of "what is this pansy crap / people have smelled this way for thousands of years, what's the problem now / etc. etc." -- but it's not as if the hygiene industry (henceforth Big Hygiene) is just going to pack things up when they think we're sufficiently clean and fresh. Relative to the rest of the world and even much of Europe, North Americans are already unscented and near-sterile. Where does it stop?

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Now here's where we can break out the crit-speak about "whiteness" and so on. I seem to recall soap ads from the 19th c where a sad-faced African baby tried in vain to scrub himself to the color of his little European friend.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:26 (twenty-two years ago)

What fun!

Where does it stop?

When each molecule has all its genetic flaws fixed. And you think I'm kidding!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Big Hygiene. Also consider: the Hygiene Trust

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I've often wondered just how many of the ailments for which we're supposed to take the newest over-the-counter ointment, lotion, etc. are actually symptoms (directly or by virtue of their identification as "ailments") of the overabundance of those selfsame products. For ex., how many of us would have "itchy scalp" if we didn't use shampoos several times a week (or every day in some cases)--or would even know to say that we have "itchy scalp." Etc.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone who speaks poststructuralism better than me to thread.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Or for example, how many of our health problems are caused by food additives and uninformed doctors?

― boxcubed (boxcubed), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 07:44 (twenty-two years ago)

what's wrong with smelling like a man?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard tell that mouthwashes like Listerine, used daily, encourage gum disease and ulcers, because it kills off all the bacteria, not just the bad.

I mean if you think about it, nowadays they tell us to drink yakult etc to bring good bacteria back into the gut... and yet they put triclosan in everything (soap, cleaners, toothpaste for gods sake) which is an antiseptic isn't it?

We'll breed a generation of totally vulnerable bubble kids!

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

incurable slobs like me who never learned to pick up after themselves are given a great deal of comfort by threads like this one -- carry on!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Certainly - I am doing my best to get away with not washing, mostly because our shower is mentalist. However there is a point where even I, kids, have had enough of "Glastonbury Hygiene" and must break out the usage of the BAFF.

I like to think this is building my immune system in some way, but seeing as I am prob. the most sickly person on ILE anyway, maybe I should change my tictacs...

― Sarah (starry), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

yes. i only shower once every two days and i get funny looks for this, but i like being slightly grubby (it's not to an antisocial extent! at least i don't think it is...) and it's good for your immune system.

― minna (minna), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i really do stink if I don't shower every day. it's the sad, sad truth.

― Mandee, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

genuine quote from my mum: "a bit of dirt does you good"

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to stay at least two posts away from Minna and John. Phew!

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

mark's mum is OTM

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Me after a day without showering = eurgh. Yay bubble life!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Rinse, wash, repeat.

There's something to be said for not being too clean, but being an absolute slob = dud. I had a roommate once who, although otherwise a great roommate, smelled like an armadillo. When we moved out, he had left ring around the room. My current roommates aren't so hot on the hygiene tip, neither.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

hahahaha stencil sniffs armadillos

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

in defense of slobs, my slobbiness doesn't extend to my personal hygiene i.e. I'll miss a day every so often & I think that's fairly healthy -- it's in the area picking up after myself where I am fairly hopeless

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I frequently encounter armadillos while hiking these parts, and they didn't have any particular smell to them that I noticed.

Excessive use of anti-bacterial agents when not necessary will lead to anti-bacterial-agent-resistant bacteria. Bacteria are everywhere and the human body is far more robust than many seem to think.

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

hahahaha stencil sniffs armadillos

Actually it was my girlfriend at the time who said he smelt like an armadillo, so maybe she does?

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan is missing any number of opportunities here.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

What's that Japanese term for "old man smell"? The odor that has all the teenage girls running from subway trains shreiking in horror? There was a funny article on it in the NY Times a few years ago. I'm always afraid I'm going to get that. What if I have it already and don't even know it! Hygeine panic, oh no!

― Arthur (Arthur), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Sarin?

Heheheh, sorry, truly tasteless, I know.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

There's a women that rides the bus every morning that has such a pungent smell of artifical mango-gigner conditioner pertruding from her scalp that it makes people gag.

― brg30 (brg30), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I like cleanliness. I often shower more than once a day because I like to feel clean. But that's just a matter of personal preference. (Or maybe it's not. Maybe I've just seen too many advertisements for deoderant and have unintentionally absorbed the prevailing opinions of the powerful, etc., etc.)

Also, I think that hygeine is related to class in the same way that standards of beauty are. Now that nearly everyone (except for very marginalized persons) in western society has access to running water, I think that it is only to be expected that there would be a shift in which hygiene practices are neccesary and which are optional.

― -M, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I know someone who showers every time she takes a shit.

I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

is she chafed by toilet paper?

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

At least she doesn't shit everytime she takes a shower.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

OK now that is taking it too far! Heh.

Re brg30 and the stinky mango woman - thats something I hate more than person-smell. Overpowering perfume and aftershave. Theres nothing worse than smelling some guy walking towards you before you see him, thanks to the tsunami of Armani Mania or whatever the fuck that is reeking from his pores. People who leave their stink of perfume in a lift long after theyre gone - DUD! Women who get out cans of deorant at work, while sitting AT THEIR DESK, and start spraying it around! I'm not kidding, I used to work with a woman who sprayed herself at least 3 times a day. At the time I was going through an allergy sensitivity diet, and was hideously sensitive to scents and chemicals, but despite pleading with her not to spray shit near me she told me to stop whining and kept it up.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Has Ally's acquaintance never heard of a friggin bidet?

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3237g/images/axe_body_spray.jpg

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

bidets are very uncommon in the US unless you live in a 4-star hotel.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

HAHA what does it all mean?

I know several people who live in 4-star hotels, but my friend is not one of them. She showers like 4 or 5 times a day for various reasons. There's the morning shower, the "changing clothes" shower, the "going to the bathroom" shower, the "after sex" shower, etc.

Actually, I know a lot of people like this. I've started becoming like this! I take a shower when I wake up. I take a shower when I leave the gym. Me and my boyfriend take a shower together after sex. WHAT THE HELL, it's like an evil antiseptic disease.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Those are all perfectly legitimate showers (although for some reason I rarely have after-sex showers)! I can't understand people who have to shower before they go to bed though. You're going to sleep, it's wasted!

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

no, i shower before bed vs. in the morning. Why is it wasted?
I go to bed clean every night and therfore wake up clean. I don't sleep in garbage or sweat profusely during dreams.

This allows me to sleep in just a bit more in thr morning.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Can hygiene go too far?

two words: high colonics

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

IMHO after-sex showers are an insult to the sex you just had (unless it was a really icky humid day maybe or something extreme). Its like saying "ew, now I have to wash this all off". I mean... huh!?

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

And now Ally's ways and means go even MORE under the microscope!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, b-b-ut sleep kind of gets you dirty, you know? It's 8 hours (if you're lucky) of just lying around! Besides my hair gets all messed up, invariably.

(Trayce is OTM) (except when you're going out to meet people who don't want to know about the sex you just had)

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

After-sex showers = same as after gym showers. ie. you are sweaty, you should become not sweaty. It's not a big deal to me either way but some people sweat more than others.

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean if just plain sleeping gets you dirty then obviously sex gets you more dirty than that!

Christina Aguilera to thread!

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh...fine, I have my weird preferences too then. I guess I like to start out my day clean and then whatever happens after that, eh.

The gym produces much more sweat than sex does (oh then I guess I'M NOT DOING IT RIGHT yeah whatever).

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I do think it's reasonable to want to have a shower after sex but people who jump straight into the shower during the quote unquote afterglow are duds of the highest order.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I shower in the morning because it helps wake me up, and a night of sleeping leaves my hair matted into a massive and unpleasant mono-dread.

My girlfriend showers at night for the reasons mentioned.

If we end up living together, we're gonna have that "who gets to shower first / fighting for time in the bathroom cause we overslept" thing beat cold, man.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Jim: yeah thats more what I was getting at - leaping up and running off to the shower like, immediately. How rude! (and believe me, its been done *grumble*)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

BURP! I just ate a big cookie!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

after-sex showers together = opportunity for more sex.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm beginning to think every ILE thread ends up being about sex *worried look*.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Trayce's figured it out! ;-)

Spencer speaks wisdom, true. But it all depends on how tired you are or not.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

When I was younger my mother, who is a nurse, didn't bath me everyday. This way it seems I was able to develop more immunity to bacteria. Now I am almost superhuman in how little I get sick. I say too much hygiene is a bad thing, and it would do everyone a little good to be a little more dirty (esp. when young and developing)

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I've limited my hygiene care to these:
- quick shower almost every morning
- shampooing almost every shower
- thorough shower once every week or two weeks
- toothbrushing almost every night
- flossing a little less frequent
- face washing almost every morning & evening
- deodorant everyday
- shaving every other day
- nail clipping once a month or few weeks

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

A Nairn doesn't brush his teeth in the morning=eww.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Couple of years ago, the person in the neighboring apartment upstairs took showers every four hours - 24 hours a day - like clockwork. Complete Howard Hughes obsessive-compulsive hygiene freak. I was at work during the day, but every night at 7pm, 11pm, 3am, 7am, ad infinitum he or she (I never saw who it was) just couldn't get clean enough.

― Chris Barrus (xibalba), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Spencer basically speaks the truth. I don't think it's necessarily rude to shower soon after sex if you're being invited in with the person, that's not really kind of "eww" that's like sensual. Maybe I'm insane.

The problem is when you have sex multiple times in one night, do you take the shower like 5 times or do you say fuck it? Now I say fuck it but I know people who don't - HOW CLEAN DO YOU NEED TO BE?

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a good one: Ojisan, oji-san = uncle, oji =smell, get it, clever! Apparently it's worse in Korea -- with prescented suits available to counteract problem. Japan is the most sqeaky clean place ever, it's the best. All of their products have disinfectants in them just in case.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 08:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Must be to clean yrself up after buying all that soiled girlies knickers from the vending machines.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Morrissey's next album = 'Smell Uncle'

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Re showering and sex:

I'm usually too tired to shower immediately after. But I always shower before if I get the chance (either "let's have sex" "okay lemme take a shower first" or if I know I'm gonna be having sex that night I shower before I leave the house). If I'm not clean I feel very self-conscious and I can't have a good time.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Jody is OTM there, nothing worse than being self concious! Its kinda funny though when you get all prepared before a night on the town with that "just in case" vibe. No, I must not start humming "How Soon is Now"... must... not...

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I was just thinking that the bed itself (if that's where you did it) is gonna be fonky, so why bother showering and then getting re-fonked (sorry that's my 2:24am Pacific spelling of the word). I usually like to fall asleep and then wake up for more shennanigans and then shower whenever I have to go out. and then I boil the sheets because they are now unclean.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE threads do not all turn into sex threads: some turn into urine in containers threads (which would be a case of hygiene not going far enough).

I knew one couple who both had to shower or bath separately every time they wanted to have sex. Very dud indeed. If I am not happy with how clean I am when sex is about to happen, I generally suggest a shower together. I think the most showers I've had in a day since my days of playing loads of sport in school would be four - two solo, two with one woman with me in each (different women, that is).

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"A Nairn doesn't brush his teeth in the morning=eww. "
I do, honest, I just forgot to put that in.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

My wife bought a fruity herbal conditioner. I thought it smelled like monkey vomit.

I had a roommate in college who would shower three to four times a day. She would wear a sweater out of the bathroom, pulling it down in front to cover her naughty bits. Of course that made it rise in the back, unknowingly (to her) exposing her mud flaps. My other roommate and I would shoot rubberbands at the fleshy target, getting in several shots during the ten seconds it would take her to stutter-step to her room. Strangely, she seemed amused and never bothered to cover her bottom, even after being hit.

― No One (SiggyBaby), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

in each what martin?

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

All this talk of showers makes me want a BATH. We don't have a tub in this flat and it's driving me insane because this is the first time in my LIFE where I have not had access to nuclear-heat baths every morning. I can't wait until Ed is back in London permanently because then bathroom will actually become one through the magic of PLUMBERS (and Ed will be back obv.)

Hygiene for me is: shower almost every day, sometimes twice if I left a towel too long on head and hair is doing without-permission stuff that isn't acceptable to my going-out self. When I have a bathtub I'm shaving legs etc. every day, but showers make that maintenance less easy.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed - keeper of the plumber-summoning spellbook!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Suzy reminds me that though I have had a bath/shower combination for the first time in years thanks to my new place, I still haven't taken an actual bath yet. What the hell is wrong with me?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I tend to take 2 showers a day sometimes in the summer b/c I have no air conditioning and I get really sweaty and icky. In the winter, I tend to take hot baths twice a day just to stay warm. I have heat in the apartment, but it's just so damn cozy to curl up in the bath for a good soak.
Sometimes I'll take a pre-sexromp bath so I'll smell all girlie and clean, but usually I don't mind being a bit dirty. Nothing's better than post-sex showering to start of a lazy Saturday morning.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never taken a bath in the apartment b/c the tub must be at least from the 50s. They painted it (!) and the paint is peeling up and I have no desire to sit in it.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, that sentence was a mess. I had a shower alone, then with one woman, then another alone, then finally a shower with another woman, all in one day. Obviously the even numbered ones had little to do with getting clean (they did have a lot to do with it being a very hot and sweaty day, as well as sex). (Linking to the discussion of threesomes elsewhere, I have also had a shower with two other people at once.)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

God, I have a paper to write and all I'm reading about on ILM is sex, food, baths, and sleep, possibly the most distracting/tempting things on this earth.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Any chance that she has a obsessive/compulsive disorder?

― Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo (cindigo), Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(that should be ILE obv...ILM only WISHES it had sex, food, baths, and sleep to talk about)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 27 February 2003 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

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