Will Self: Classic or Dud

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Literary Self = yukkk!

Shooting Stars Self = yaaay!

― Venga, Friday, 28 February 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I really enjoy his books too. Imaginative and funny and full of extraordinary writing. I even read his collection of columns on architecture.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 28 February 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Extraordinary writing = love of sixth form words?

― RickyT (RickyT), Friday, 28 February 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

His sentences so rarely read like sentences you're used to. His pleasure in using a broad vicabulary I find endearing, and he uses the words where - I never get the impression he's forcing his thesaurus down my throat.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 28 February 2003 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Will Self actually = CLASSIC because he actually really filled out a very silly interview that my old zine asked him to do - in pencil - and mailed it back to us. I thought that was dead cool. We asked him questions like "draw your favourite traffic accident" (nuclear trailer overturn mishap near Missoula Washington or something like that...) and "What is the next taboo to be broken? Canibalism?" (Acceptance of organised religion) and "Do you write with a thesaurus or what?" (a thesaurus produces no marks on paper. I write with pencil or pen.)

I like his cyclical nature, the way that the same characters pop up in story after story. :-)

His step-daughter used to come to Lollies gigs. She was the person that first told us ringtone was "Smells Like Teen Spirit". Man, I haven't seen her in ages, I should write her and see how she's doing, that reminds me.

― kate, Friday, 28 February 2003 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm a big fan, esp of 'great apes', and the stories in 'tough tough toys'. he's much more playful than martin amis, and appears to be having a lot of fun with his stories. he might use *big ideas* and *concepts*, but his irreverence makes it work.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Saturday, 1 March 2003 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

is there a consensus OPO or best introduction to Self?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 1 March 2003 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I think probably "Grey Area" sums up what Self's about for me. Quietly funny and intelligent stories, also it's the first of his I read, so I'm bound to consider it the best introduction. My favourite's is stil "My idea of fun", if only for the title.

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 2 March 2003 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I luv Will Self.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 2 March 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

It's "Tough Tough Toys" for me. I liked "Great Apes", but the short stories work for me.

― weatheringdaleson (weatheringdaleson), Sunday, 2 March 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to chime in here with "dud"--always found the "big ideas" to be dull and obvious, and have never seen a sentence of his I've especially liked. And the "bad-boy" thing is PLAYED OUT.

― Douglas (Douglas), Sunday, 2 March 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only read his untro to burroughs 'junky'. I skipped it after a couple of pages and went straight to Burroughs, which is where I found 'proper' writing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 2 March 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Dud dud dud. Lots of long words used needlessly does not equate to good writing.

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 2 March 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

will self used to do the 'cult books' segment on the mark and lard evening shows (before they did the breakfast show and went daytime). he always seemed game to join in with their foolishness. there was one show which had them all, i forget why, singing the star trek theme tune. most odd. i wish i had recordings.

andy

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 3 March 2003 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a recording somewhere of him reading Dead Babies by Martin Amis and it's blood curdlingly sinister.

― chris (chris), Monday, 3 March 2003 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

'columns on architecture'
hoi hoi

― Barnaby (Barnaby), Monday, 3 March 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Cock and Bull was a revelation. Even after I'd read my Jeannette Wintersons.

― Lara (Lara), Monday, 3 March 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeanette with one 'n' - she gets v angry about this if I recall. I hope she doesn't come round and be all feminist in my face and stuff.

― Lara (Lara), Monday, 3 March 2003 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Barnaby, I nearly wrote architectural columns, but rephrased for improved clarity.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 March 2003 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

Will Self as a short story writer = classic.
Will Self as a novelist = dud, mostly because his novels are ideas that would make cracking short stories spread way too thinly (biggest offender = How The Dead Live).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

as above, also,
Will Self as journalist = CLASSIC 100%. his series of interviews with high-profile female political figures in the IoS a few years ago was sincere, urgent, human(e) writing. the andrea dworkin and margaret beckett ones especially stood out. (one he liked, one he didn't...)

also he's good on food, and food writing almost always sux.

― pete b. (pete b.), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Will Self as Shooting Stars panellist = classic x10
Will Self as interviewee = classic x100

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

actually reading Will Self's books - Dud
the idea of Will Self - classic

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

well said

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

carey = otm, kinda like jg ballard or burroughs in that way ... for me anyway.

but this is much less true of the short stories than the novels esp. "a rock of cocaine as big as the ritz"

and the basic idea of "the quantity theory of insanity" (that when you die you just move to another part of the city) is fantastic.

I'd like to read some of his nonfiction. Is there a good collection?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the basic idea of "the quantity theory of insanity" (that when you die you just move to another part of the city) is fantastic.

I haven't read The Quantity Theory of Insanity, but isn't this the basic idea of The North London Book Of The Dead AND How The Dead Live as well? I never took him for being exactly short of ideas but maybe I was wrong.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, hang on, that's the short story collection, isn't it? Sorry, ignore me, I'm talking rubbish.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Nonfiction:
Sore Sites is a collection of his architecture writing.
Feeding Frenzy is a collection of his food writing.
otherwise,...?

― pete b. (pete b.), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry, matt, "north london book of the dead" is a story in "quantity theory...".

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

MattDC, I was going to link to that interview. I've never read his books but he comes across very hilariously there.

LITTLEJOHN: But you haven't read the book in its totality and you have to read the book in its totality.

SELF: Why?

LITTLEJOHN: In order to understand it.

SELF: Does it turn into Tolstoy at page 205?

LITTLEJOHN: No it doesn't turn into Tolstoy. I don't set out to be Tolstoy. It is a much more complex book than that.

SELF:Than Tolstoy?

― slutsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

He liked that idea of the afterlife, so he expanded his short story into a book.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

After reading two of his ponderous novels, I believe one was called 'Cock and Bull' and the other one so forgettable that I thankfully forget it - that I have to vote DUD on his writing. He takes one-joke that would be adequate for a short story and stretches it into many painful, painful pictures. Someone should form a Will Self Help Club and encourage him into short stories.

Let's speak of good authors and cheer everyone up. What is your favourite JG Ballard novel?

― S Samson, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

highrise, but I find him kind of torturous too (sometimes in a good way)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I had not read High Rise. It's on the coffee table though with Concrete Island. My friend told me that Concrete Island was about people who were stuck in traffic, a Concrete Island, but fail to leave? Is that so? I thought that concept would be torturous but again, like you said, in a good way?

Do you think that David Cronenberg is the perfect foil for JG Ballard - or do you think that Cronenberg lacks that certain englishness for a perfect adaptation?

― S Samson, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

High Rise is great.

There's something about Ballard's prose that makes it hard to adapt, though. Couldn't really stand Crash.

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 20 March 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

five years pass...

He was very entertaining on Question Time last night.

― Freedom, Friday, 12 December 2008 19:38 (sixteen years ago)

yeah, it made think "i bet this what johnny rotten thinks he sounds like now when goes off on one of his little rants". rather than just some confused old man trying to front a 'tude.

― mensrightsguy (internet person), Friday, 12 December 2008 21:30 (sixteen years ago)

ends up getting some nu-labour apparatchik all flustered every time he's on.

― mensrightsguy (internet person), Friday, 12 December 2008 21:35 (sixteen years ago)

haw watching this on iplayer. he is far better at this sort of thing than at writing novels.

― Just Johnson (special guest stars mark bronson), Friday, 12 December 2008 21:53 (sixteen years ago)

ten months pass...

5/6 of the way through the "Quantity Theory" collection, which is funny, weird and smart. I want all my friends in academia to read the title story; it's not an insightful critique of anything, but the way it takes common gray ideas and roughs them up and puts them together again is mentally freeing. Funniest story in the book, as well.

No surprise that he writes convincingly about drug experiences. In a weird way I don't trust people that aren't funny, or that haven't made themselves briefly insane over a long weekend with friends for "fun". So, especially given how far I am, socially and geographically, from home, these stories are really comforting.

― ok star grumbles (lukas), Saturday, 31 October 2009 10:03 (fifteen years ago)

oh, people who aren't funny (or don't do humour) aren't to be trusted, certainly. That indicates some serious lack of basic humanity.

(I like Will Self the public figure who pops up now and then a lot, but I have a completely foundationless suspicion of his writing. I should really check it out.)

― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 31 October 2009 12:01 (fifteen years ago)

eight years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhSQySxcePI

― flappy bird, Thursday, 15 February 2018 07:16 (seven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Le43WJxNWU

― flappy bird, Thursday, 15 February 2018 07:16 (seven years ago)

tfw you read an old ilx post, think "who's this twerp", then realise it's you

― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 15 February 2018 23:30 (seven years ago)

I hope dissing this fool doesn't make you a twerp tbh. +1

― calzino, Friday, 16 February 2018 00:01 (seven years ago)

but don't check out his recent short travelogue show on R4. it is fucking dogshit!

― calzino, Friday, 16 February 2018 00:04 (seven years ago)

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