Vivre à Paris . . .

I looked at a small handful of American programs that facilitate study abroad but the ones I found were prohibitively expensive--between $10,000 and $17,000 for two semesters. I suppose I'm looking for something possibly imposible: a program that will provide some structure (socially, academically, and otherwise) but won't charge an arm and a leg for doing so. It doesn't need to be an American program but you're right, I might have trouble navigating the bureaucracy at a French university without some kind of support from an English-speaking institution.

1) Don't hang out with Americans, English or other anglophones if you can possibly avoid it, that was easy in Turin, it won't be in Paris.

2) Make sure you're at a french university studying in french, or you might as well stay where you are. Going to the Sorbonne to do a vague french language and culture course doesn't sem like the best plan. It seems far too vague. I had to do a year of my degree in Turin and I was thrown in at the deep end. My Italian improved almost overnight.

My gf. at the time was from Barnard on a study abroad programme in Rome. She was studying under Columbia appointed lecturers with other americans and living in a convent with other americans. These programmes seem to be of very little value and just seem to constitue part of some preppy rich kid's 'Grand Tour'. Technically her Italian was better than mine but she couldn't hold a conversation in Italian, she could hardly book train tickets. She could reas Dante in the original which I still haven't attempted.

I think your best bet would be to apply for an MA, post-grad diploma or something like that. If you have some french your best bet would be to arrive a month before starting and good to an intensive language school, somewhere with a good reputation and somewhere less cosmopolitan than Paris; Marseille, Lyon, Lille or similar. European universities like foreign students because they bring money. You won't get preferential treatment as a result but you won't be disadvantaged as a result and they all have International Student offices with fluent english speakeers to help people like you get what you want.

As for study you will not need absolute fluency. Other students will be very helpful and reasnobly fluent in English. I still don't consider myself 'absolutely fluent' in italian but I did very well in Turin.

And living in Paris, well... I didn't have the best time, but it was mostly my fault, for reasons I'd rather not get into on the message board, but most of the other kids in my program had fun. But then again, they were mostly rich NYU girls who spent most of the time shopping and fucking french men. I found an apartment in the expat magazine, the name I can't remember - and there are also tons of listing at the American Church. I paid about $600usd for a fantastic studio right on rue des rosiers in the marais - which is a really great/expensive neighborhood. It's surely possible to get something much cheaper than that in a less appealing location.

As for improving your French, I found that most of the time, I was speaking English with the French people I met. They either had no patience for my almost-functional French or they were also students who wanted to practice their English. It's surely possible, but try very very hard not to get caught up in the expat scene there. I, unfortuantly, spent too much time in an English pub with a pint of bitter, watching Arsenal v. Manchester United, grumbling about how shit Paris was, with all my English friends.

Though the food is pretty yummy. Lots of steak frites, lots of oysters, lots of other creamy & rich & flaky & buttery things too. The wine is cheap, obviously. The shopping is pretty good. Oh, working. Since you said your French isn't that great, you'd probably be stuck teaching English to immigrants from N.Africa/Vietnam for a really dodgy school or working at an English/Irish pub. Can you get working visas? I had a student visa but was told I couldn't work - but maybe I'm wrong.

Also, have realistic expecations about what your time in Paris will be like. I, like most Americans, had this sort of unreasonably romantic ideal of Paris - which of course it couldn't live up to. Parisians can be very rude, the city can be very expensive, there's dog shit all over the place, it rains a lot, there's lots of obvious racism & racial tension...

But if your goal is to improve your French and you want to do a non-degree course - why spend the money on the university? Why not just pack up and live in Paris or somewhere in the provinces - and work cash-in-hand somewhere? Though I guess you wouldn't have the social system of a university built-in to make friends... Or make a round-the-world trip of La Francophonie. France, West Africa, Lebanon, Indochina, Louisiana, Montreal, Martinique? That would be cool.

Owell, email me if you want to ask questions

mark, as well you know I am insufferable snob when it comes to comestibles.

To be fair my experience of spanish coffee extends to catlalunya only.

The French make very good cafe au lait.

Amst, if you are in no rush, maybe you can get a Rotary, Fulbright or other fellowship to pay for it. It can also help with school admissions.

Other friends went on some program to teach English to young French people. Some of their students were really snotty so my friends taught them to say "English is above me."

I love Lyon, the Chicago of France.

Hm, say more.

You should read about Lyon on your own but I did a summer exchange program to Lyon in high school and have been back to visit several times since. I dunno, it was good for a summer but post-college I would think you would want to live in Paris unless you really need to learn French hardcore and don't trust yourself not to hang out with other English speakers all the time. I suppose it will depend on your school program.

The reason I call it the Chicago of France is that Lyon is large and has excellent public transport, culture, etc., but is overshadowed by Paris in the way Chicago is overshadowed by New York. Just as Chicago is a very American (as opposed to international) city, Lyon has more of a purely French, rather than cosmopolitan, character. (Therefore, as Ed and others pointed out, you are less likely to succumb to the temptation of Anglophone culture and social circles.) Lyon is cheaper than Paris. People are friendlier in Lyon than in Paris. Lyon has many very bourgeouis areas and suburbs. It is in the middle of the country so you can travel conveniently.

My experience: lived in Paris for about 3-4 months several years ago, soon after graduating from university; mostly bummed around trying to live as cheaply as possible. I shared an incredibly tiny, dingy little flat in the 19e, not the most desirable neighbourhood by any stretch (probably the most undesirable, as a matter of fact), but I still loved it large. I found you can actually live pretty cheaply if you don't really do anything--food in the groceries is really inexpensive and good, and booze etc doesn't cost much either. My one major indulgence was going to the movies. Paris is such a great movie town, you won't even believe it.

Tell me about more programs that facilitate study abroad for people who aren't enrolled in undergraduate programs.

Try this: http://www.rotary.org/foundation/educational/amb_scho/prospect/process/apply.html

Fullbright also has a variety of fellowhips for people post-undergrads.

And I want to eat poutine.

(1) Maybe I'm coming to Montreal this summer maybe.

(2) How do we rate the provincial cities in France, as places to live? Lyon, Nice, Strasbourg, Toulouse, etc.

I can't really answer your second question.

Pronvincial cities wise I choose one such as lyon or marseille which is a major TGV hub. I've not been to strasbourg but friends from mulhouse (other end of Alsace) are quite disparaging. Its easy to get into germany though. Given the choice I'd plump for lyon for reasons outlined above.

Now I just need to scrape togther money somehow.

Per the French Consulate's web site I will need:

Can anyone tell me about the 10th? That's where I'll be living.

Any advice?

ok I love living in Paris but the bureaucratic stuff, to become a resident (not even a citizen, I'm just here for a year or so) is hilarious. I've never done this in another country so maybe it's this hilarious everywhere. But anyway: my latest travail: to get my residence permit here I must have a medical exam that costs 300 euros; and I finally FINALLY have my appointment for this! I've been waiting four months for this (having called about 400 times to figure out why there's a delay---you're supposed to apply for residence in your first two weeks here, and we did; and then waited four months). But it turns out I can't pay for the exam in euros. Instead I have to buy special stamps at a government office (or possibly a tobacco store!) to pay for the exam. The government office I've gone to for other things like this is about a half-hour walk away, no big deal, but the lines are hilariously bad. I've already spent time there for two other appointments in this residence permit quest.

and that's just to get the residence permit. To have my health insurance be usable I also need a social security number. I didn't know that until last week though. But there are two government agencies that administer social security numbers, and I can't figure out which one I'm supposed to use. No one seems to be able to, either. They said I should just apply to both and it'll get figured out. There are just so many bureaucratic matters here that no one seems to understand, and yet they're necessary to do in order to stay here/get health insurance/etc. In principle, I should add, you need your residence permit to get your social security number, though in practice sometimes you don't. How do you find out which case you fit under? LOL.

and then there's the matter of supplemental health insurance...the state pays 70% of most medical matters once you have your social security number, and to get the extra 30% paid for you can buy supplement health insurance. I didn't know about the second part until last week, but now I know that pretty much everyone here has it. Thanks for telling me! However, you can't have your supplemental coverage reimburse you until you have your social security number.

I have about 50 similar, related stories but this is enough for now.

At least France has state health insurance. To be honest, I wouldn't bother getting the supplemental health insurance, not unless you're expecting spend years in France. Everyone has it because most employers provide it, but you don't need it. Without it you'll pay a bit more for drugs etc., but if you ever need anything major like a stay in hospital, social security will cover 98% of it or something. You should be able to find a GP that only charges 25 euros, 15 euros of which will be reimbursed by social security so you're only out of pocket 10 euros.

at least you've got the world cup tbh

and i'm kinda with ZZ- french health insurance system looks pretty enviable from jsut about everywhere else in the world.

jesus christ doctor fee of €25. jesus christ.

Yeah, the health coverage here is awesome...if I can finally just get the social security number I need to begin reimbursement! I think for really major hospital stays you're right, but for tests even 30% can add up quickly. And I have a wife + 3 kids. So I'm going to go with the supplemental insurance.

I just find the hoops I have to jump through here hilarious, except for the fact that each hoop ends up taking an entire day for the requisite jumping.

22 € even, up front. Then you get reimbursed.

Yep. My doctor only charges 22 euros. You get reimbursed directly into your bank account a couple of weeks later.

It's about €55 euro here, and I think you can claim some of it back if you pay PRSI through work, or you get it for free if you're unemployed and have a medical card. You won't be able to claim much back on prescriptions, from what I know, and health insurance is pretty expensive (although allowable against tax).