Two Cultures

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Art and Science - can they be reconciled? Should they be reconciled? Have they been reconciled?

(This thread partly inspired by watching 'University Challenge' this evening. The contestants knew almost nothing abt lit/art/film/pop cult etc, but scored well on science/maths/history/geography questions.)

― Andrew L, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

History reconciles both, I think. It swallows everything. If you know about history and you don't know about art then you've got huge gaps in your knowledge.

― Lyra, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Science is better

― dave q, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

art is better

― anthony, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Art uninformed by science is only folklore

― dave q, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

thats the fucking point. We need myths to suckle like a mothers tits . Science suggests answers , art suggests questions and all that uncreative cliched bullshit i use to suppourt a useless belief system.

― anthony, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Trying to organise a team for University Challenge last year I can guarantee that you are fucked if your University does not do any science - as scientists often have a vaguely healthy interest in the more accessible arts side but not vice-versa. Of course you are doubly fucked if your university specialises in the history, politics and languages on non-Western nations too - as this rarely comes up.

We haven't had a team on Uni Challenge for years.

― Pete, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The thing is that these days all the arts ppl will pay lip service to science and all the science ppl vice versa - it's polite intellectual table-tennis to choose between them, not a Leavisite 'great divide'.

Maybe it should be a great divide, who knows.

But there are definite cultural divides - the old mind/body one is one of them. Mental skills vs physical skills - art vs sport if you like. Check out any of the football threads for a horde of disparaging self-identified artists keen to denigrate the game, the fans, the culture, for instance. This stuff is visceral in a way that art/science just isn't.

― Tom, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not denigrating 'football culture'. I'm just saying that it's an oxymoron.

― dave q, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

anyone who doesn't know everything about everything is not entitled to comment on anything

― mark s, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

...commented mark.

― Sam, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tub resriously, I'm on the side of the scientists (coz I r one) since many scientists I've met read novels, listen to and play music and have opinions on these "arts" on all levels, whereas I have many more arty types who are virtually innumerate, and have no clue about or interest in ANY physical or technological phenomena around them. However, those Cranfield blokes on Univ Chall last night were pretty clueless about anything except sewage disposal (or whatever), so there you are.

― Sam, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

whereas I have = whereas I have met

― Sam, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sam, i don't think it's fair to say that scientists are (as you seemed to be implying) better or more fully-rounded human beings than artists just becuase they occasionally read a book or listen to music and have an opinion on it. it just so happens that i find science fascinating, i just don't have (through no fault of my own) a good enough maths, or chemistry, or whatever, background to become as au fait as maybe i'd like with the concepts and events involved. i read popular science books, "chaos", "a brief history of time" etc - though i suppose now you're going to say they're for lay people. i daresay Tom Paulin would say that all you scientists here are lay arts critics as well. science involves certain specific kinds of language and jargon that not everyone is trained in - i would suggest that since literature is written in the same, or pretty much the same, language as we use in everyday life it's a lot easier to offer opinions on them.

er - sorry if that sounded a bit defensive and hysterical. i just get fed up with scientists acting superior to me just because i happen to be good at shakespeare but find astrophysics or computer programming beyond my reach. (and no ricky t i don't count you among these people).

― katie, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

and to answer the question, i would love for art and science to be reconciled. i think that a lot of people have too much interest vested in NOT recomciling them for that to ever happen though. and it pisses me off when art criticism tries to ape science by inventing incomprehensible jargon (Judith Butler, please stand up). i gave up on it when it seemed that that was all that ever happened in the criticism i was reading.

― katie, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmmm. I dunno Katie, for someone who claims to be not that great at science and techy stuff, you do seem to have a pretty good understanding and knowledge of it from where I'm standing (on my science and technology knoll). Frexample, you got that neutron star question right on UC last night which managed to defeat both teams.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

awww, thanks ricky t. i guess it's just the difference between knowing vaguely what one is and being able to express it in equations. which kind of sums up my whole approach to science really.

― katie, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(Equations = good therefore = maths but less of the pedantry eh?)

― Sarah, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ToM SeZ:

Check out any of the football threads for a horde of disparaging self-identified artists keen to denigrate the game, the fans, the culture, for instance. Having generally avoided sports-related threads, I just checked 'em all out. The horde referred to above = not at all evident, Tom!

x0x0

― |\|0|2/|\4|\| |=4'/, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

from experience, the cum of scientist tastes different, more salty, than that of artists...any theories?

― Geoff, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know, but that sounds like the best research project ever. What would the academic paper be called? And where would it be published?

― Nick, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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