Is 'science' a tool of the dominant ideology? Or vice versa?

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Or verse visa

dave q, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tool are the savants of the dominant ideology

mark s, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Science is used to explain our existence, it is a God, so if the dominant ideology control it, then people worship it. But, on the other hand, science cures us and helps us progress. So, science is forever seen as a sympton of progress, which is the holy grail of human development. "We are going forward, we are unstoppable". So, the new opium of the people is science, is that what you are saying Dave? The dominant ideology is progress, economic growth, comparitive advantage etc. and to achieve this science is needed to justify existence, ie evolution, genetic engineering, disease management, technology.

jel, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...
but isn't there a kind of buddhist peacefulness to the idea of observation and detachment? why is science associated with technology? are the two really inseperable?

maryann, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

wow that's a hard question. you've got problems with defining the both science and ideology. but i'll take a short-cut: there are books full of debate concerning what is and isn't science etc, but it's fair to say that the concensus understanding of the terms are antithetical. Ideology = unquestioning, certainty, stability. Science = questioning, openness, change. And here's the biggie: Science is at its most exciting/interesting when it proves itself wrong.

This doesn't stop the avenues of interest explored in science being an expression of an ideology or any other assumptions. science is after all carried out by people.

To blur things some, normal science does require some sort of assumptions to get anything done -- but when push comes to shove, those very fundamental assumptions can be questioned and eventually supplanted.

Uh, does this thread still constitute geekiness, or has that all played itself out? (phew)

Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ideology - a theory, or set of beliefs or principles, esp. one on which a political system, party or organization is based.

Science - (knowledge obtained from) the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world, involving experimentation and measurement and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities.

Technology - (the study and knowledge of) the practical, esp. industrial, use of scientific discoveries.

Progress - advancement to an improved or more developed state, or to a forward position.

Religion - the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship. If an activity is a religion for you, you are extremely enthusiastic about it and do it regularly.

I think Science is a religion and that the belief that progress through (science based)technology is good or necessary is an ideology.

toraneko, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

you'd be hard pressed to equate science with religion on the definitions you've given. i'd agree with you on your last point though for the simple reason that we have too many examples where technology based change is seen to be not a good thing. (and necessary is always a difficult thing to argue for.)

Alan Trewartha (at home), Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

First question: Just because something has a set of rules, does this mean it's a religion, or even an ideology, if the rules are purely formal? You could fill the rules with ideological or religious content, but that doesn't mean that the rules themselves are ideological. For example, mathematical or musical rules, rules for constructions of narratives, are these inherently ideological, or are they only ideological once they're filled with content?

Another question might be, is there any 'content' or is this in itself an empty set of rules, the way Saussure and Wittgenstein seem to suggest? If that is so, then there is a false distinction between form and content. But the concept 'ideology' is perhaps sick and unallowable, it's like saying 'science is' or 'the rules are' or 'language is'.

maryann, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Did someone say SCIENCE?

DG, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

SHE BLINDED ME WITH SCIENCE!

sorry that had to be said.

Mr Noodles, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

problem: no one here has a master's degree IN SCIENCE. wait that's not a problem at all.

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If we separate science from technology, it is a set of rules for observation. Supposedly observation interferes with the subject ineluctably at certain levels of scrutiny. Is this true? Does anyone know? Does anyone believe that observation interferes with the subject at any level of scrutiny? How?

maryann, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Kant talks about that. I do not however. Modern scientific thought is built upon Kant's rebuttle to Hume's denial of causality.

Ryan A White, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Markz would probably say that science is bound up with the dominant idealogy, in other words they are working together, to create a total hegemony. Science arises out of the dominant idealogy in the sense that certain science practices are foregrounded in certain ideaologies (ie under industrial capitalism science is primarily concerned with efficiency of production/development of new product). It's kind of a wierd chicken and egg question because Hard Science and Ideaology as we know it both initially flourished about the same time, in the religious void of post-enlightenment england.

turner, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hm. That came off a little more pedantic than I intended...

turner, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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