to drive a car.

If I ever realise my half-arsed plan to live in America at some point in my life then I will totally need a car. Chiz chiz.

Also, like Tom, I love bus travel (especially upstairs, but away from the thugs at the back).

New London buses which look like spaceships inside = dud as have been designed for seating comfort of alien lifeforms.

Running a car in London = insanity, even when parents live in deep timeslip-type countryside, with young Laurie Lee as neighbour. (Good move: borrow sister's.) When I had a car, I liked driving late late in London, go where you will, find the hidden shape of the city, ignore lights, one-way signs... Best ever drive: overnight down from Glasgow, date mid-80s, average speed: mid- 90s, Bill alseep on seat beside me, his crappy tape of Fragile on continuous loop v.quietly, orange sodium lighting = the colour of heaven....

Routemasters. Also classic because they confuse thugs. Thugs have this subconscious thing pulling them to the back of the upper deck (designers of the new buses have realised this and made the seats at the back hard and uncomfortable to deter thugs but they *still* sit there). The Routemaster design is obviously different (access from rear) so they don't know where to sit...you see them looking around frustratedly as they board. Equally funny is when a group of mooching lads comes upstairs (on other bus types) and heads for the back, only to find another group of mooching lads already in occupation.

Have never driven. With luck, never will.

I clearly do just fine for myself.

You decide.

Obviously, I think cars are awful for the environment and for people's health, but I'm also a pragmatist. I'd just like to see people drive *less*, and I'd like to see some sustainable options. But then there's this other side of me that just completely hates cars, particularly in terms of the way they deform people's personalities. I never want to be one of those people who is so desperate to get a few feet ahead that they block a crosswalk or fail to respect pedestrians' rights of way.

I don't really see a need for them- if I can't take public transport or WALK somewhere, I really don't see the point in going there.

The only thing that really sucks is, being in a band, I am highly dependant on taxis whenever I have to move equipment around. I freaking *HATE* taxis with every bone of my body. I mean, I have to get into a car with a strange man, and then give him money to scare the life out of me (and usually I have to give directions, as well) well, no thank you!

In the UK, where transport is... well, I wouldn't say it's better, but there is more transport to cover a smaller area... it is possible to live without a car, because most things are packed closer together. In the US, the amount of space they have to play with, and the fact that private transport was a GIVEN to the people who settled the country, it's just absurd. Can't deal with that amount of space, I don't like it and I don't think it's right.

I never took a test myself, despite having a few lessons and I can't really see myself doing so as long as I live in London. The only time it's ever useful here is when you're moving house or trying to move band equipment to and from gigs. Otherwise buses and trains of various ilks serve pretty well.

Routemasters: indeed these rock. I miss going on the 94 into town now that I live so close to Shepherd's Bush central line station as to make it a criminal waste of time. Newer buses are a lot less comfortable, spend ages at each stop and are often equipped with annoying automatic announcements about doors opening and closing. The 295 buses from Ladbroke Grove to Clapham Jnct are particularly bad examples.

I love the tube in theory, and the diagram (not map!) is gorgeous but all too often it is horrible in practice ie sweaty, unreliable and crowded. Is too much to ask for a bit of air conditioning on the central line in summer and non-insane interchanges?

As for comfort of seats- what are you talking about? Those damned seats are still PADDED!!! You want to go to NYC and ride for an hour on those plastic seats and watch yer butt slowly turn square and then see if you are still complaining. Humph!

Double decker busses are GRATE, tho. Must admit that. OK, it's fun to go to other countries and see how else they deal with the problem of getting more seats into a bigger bus- double length busses with joints in the middle? Freaky! - but taller busses are just more sensible. Clearly. I suppose in NYC they wouldn't fit in the tunnels.

Classic: A nice empty road to drive on. Which does happen sometimes. Also, the way the police don't give a shit that everyone breaks the speed limit when motorway driving. Also useful for not having to go on the horrible school bus anymore!

Bill

I passed my driving test after seven lessons, haven't driven since. Amazing what disliking doing something does for your revision / concentration skills.

Ah, the Realpolitik of the automobile...

Apparently all the testing and licensing in the world can't prevent 40,000 deaths a year in the US alone. I ride my bike to work several times a week and witness life-threatening licensed idiocy every week. *People* don't know how to use the roads properly. You might think differently if you feared for your life every week because at least once a week, you encountered some asshole who nearly kills you because he thinks you're "in his way."

"In the way" is an entirely subjective observation. It's not strictly for those who have the biggest and most expensive weapons to decide.

Bill

Um, this doesn't really address the argument that it might be a good idea to make cyclists obey the same road laws as motorists.

Personally, I think that traffic violations should carry much stiffer penalties, particularly in cockfarming BOSTON, where people drive like they've got bollocks on their noses.

(Ever have a phrase pop in your head that you liked so much that you had to use it, no matter how nonsensical it was in context? Me, too.)

James's post should be shown to Tony Blair, sometime soon ...

Well, perhaps I didn't address the argument because where I live, cyclists *do* have to obey the same laws as motorists, so it's fairly obvious to me. It's not an "argument" in my world, so you need not prompt me. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US you can certainly get ticketed or stopped by police for those things. It happens all the time in Chicago, and I support it.

I didn't respond to his point about cyclists following the rules of the road, but there were plenty of other "points" to address, namely the argument about the dangers posed by cycling. From my vantage point, it's quite silly considering the 40,000 deaths in the US blah blah blah...

And anyway, I took a test, as have all the other cyclists I know. It's called a "driving test", they ask you about the "rules of the road", it takes about ten minutes, and leaves out a lot of important questions. It's also not the most important part of the drivers' license test - you can be an utter moron and pass it.

I always thought that cars and drivers were licensed because it was a complicated and heavy piece of machinery. But what a good idea. Let's start testing and licensing pedestrians as well, for that matter - that way we might prevent idiots from running in front of cars when they don't have the right of way.

I pay my car insurance every six months.

Car insurance rates vary dramatically based on the car's age and make, the state (regulations) and neighborhood (crime rates) in which the car is officially registered, the driver's driving record and history (how long you've been driving and have you had any accidents), and the driver's actuarial profile (unmarried males under age 25 are statistically the most likely to get into trouble; therefore insurance companies charge them extra). Call several of the large insurers and ask for quotes.

I don't drive a car. Never have, never will.

Solution to lack of public transport in countryside = don't live in the countryside! No-one should live there. It should be one big nature reserve.

Should farmers move into the towns as well then?

I don't either. Don't know if I ever will.

God, I never thought I'd say this: I'm contemplaying getting my driver's license. What a freak am I: 34 and want to get my license now. Should I or not? With two kids it's abit of a hassle getting somewhere. :-( We're dependent on others and that SUCKS donkeypoopoo. Whenever we need to move big things from one place to the next... well, we just have to wait till myparents in law are here which means a long wait as they live far off. :-( And as the kids get older, they'll want to go places. Doing it by public transport? Difficult.

ARGH. What to do. :-(

It's awesome that you don't have a license and work hard to live car free. Perhaps it's time to get a license, but you should be commended for holding out so long.

Oh it was quite easy, y'know, but also stubborness. hah. Now I have two kids and I don't want them to suffer. Still I feel like a "moran" when it comes to driving. I feel like I won't be able to do it since I'm crap at these things.When, I was 18 my dad made me do the theoretical part but when it came to the practical part I dropped out after a few lessons. I live in a city so it isn't that hard not to drive.

You'll be alright. Just try and avoid hitting cars, trees, walls, and people.

go for it! then you can do outdoorsy stuff in the Ardennes or somesuch!
I only got mine 3 years ago and still don't really feel at ease behind a wheel but I'm really happy I did it. It doesn't change much to my daily life but now my holiday options are much wider. I've been doing a couple of road trips which I obv would have never been able to do without a license.

i'm also embarrassed to admit that i've made it to the age of 28 without ever having learned to drive. i guess i'm used to it, but it worries me not being able to drive could seriously impact on my chances of getting certain jobs where my own transport is necessary.

i just feel like i would be completely hopeless at it since on the one hand i'm completely absentminded, and on the other i'm i'm full of neuroses about being in an accident.

Hah, we're twins. This is what I always thought as well (being absent minded and also afraid to cause accidents). But I think my husband is right: I just gotta do it, it isn't that hard. (Errr, jinxing my chances here, huh?)

Still convinced about getting a motorcycle, but I think having a license (for a car) will broaden my horizons and also enable to get my kids to places which I would otherwise not go to or would have to enlis my PIL.

it's not hard. look at the amount of people that do it. i've been driving since I was 17 (now 35), I am the clumsiest scatterbrainiest person I know, and I have never crashed, killed anyone, even had so much as a minor bump. Considering that my sense of spatial awareness is so bad that I bump into doorframes rather than walk through doors like a normal person, and haven't not had a bruise somewhere through clumsiness since I was a toddler, I feel totally at home behind the wheel of a car - my parallel parking skills are second to none and I have a far better sense of space and distance when in a car that I do when walking down the road. It becomes second nature.

same as that. i'm more comfortable in a car than i am steering my own body around a room full of furniture

Heh, I'm 27, still don't have a drivers license.

Workin on it though!

I'm not very good at being a passenger though. My comfort in a car is because I trust my own abilities and instincts, and I'm not so good at trusting those of others, no matter how well I know them and how often I've travelled with them. (I'm the same in all forms of public transport).

Dude BUMPED against our buggy the other day. Fucking idiot. He had a VERY clear view of the street and it was impossible NOT to see my husband with the buggy. He fucking speeded up and bumped into it. My husband, understandably, was outraged. He kicked against his bumped and shouted at him. I wouldn't have, but then that's me, right? I mean, would have probably shouted sth, butwhatever... No accident. Thank god.

But Ailsa, I'll keep your words in my thoughts. :-) I think me being absentminded is a bit of an excuse. If you just focus then you CAN drive. :-) So on monday I'll call and check when the next course is. :-)

Once you can drive, you can sort of do it without focussing. It's as natural as walking to me now, except that I don't bump into things when I'm driving. And seriously, you can't be any more absent-minded than me.

Argh please don't drive "without focusing" like everybody else.

was driving a benz last night and minding my own business

i'm in the middle of a three lane street

past the traffic light it turns into a two lane street

i don't notice the car to my right (right lane ends ahead) because why the hell should i

the street is more or less empty (one car in front of me though)

light turns green and i accelerate about halfway, car starts roaring naturally

piece of shit entry level bmw to my right tries to race me and we're neck and neck and i'm not even giving it all it has

i was coming back from going to some breweries and i'm like what the fuck is wrong with drivers in this fucking city

the dumbass isn't giving up and we're very close to each other so i just ease off the accelerator

in the two lane street now and he moves to the left lane i start accelerating and he starts accelerating again and strongmans his way back in front of me

i flash my high beams and i'm thinking how small is your dick that you have to put four cars clustered together so close in danger (we were just four cars on the street)

i was about to cut him off again but i had to turn right on a street to go home

glad i didn't though but seriously what the fuck jesus

forgot to mention after i let him go when we passed the light, he moved to the left lane, and then cut me off then went back to the left lane

then i had to turn to go home

this is why it's important to take extra notice of any BMWs around you while driving

3-series and X-series especially though

so ya that "again" in the "cut him off again" should not be there because i never cut him off to begin with

noted tombo

first time it's happened to me

Was your driver on vaca or

was driving a benz last night

It’s labour day so gave him the weekend off

Entry-level luxury SUV drivers are the worst.

Did u just get back from playing bass in a cool metal show

The only types of metal shows i go to primarily focus on displaying metal parts for cars

My motoring prejudices are rich and varied:
- "crossover" SUV drivers (clueless and entitled; frequently checking phones while driving)
- purchasers of the cheapest / smallest car in a model range (content to beetle along 20 km/h below the limit because they're in no hurry, why would anyone else be?)
- luxury SUVs because fuck off
- "My family" or "Baby on board" stickers - how precious, you must be better than literally everyone else who has a family
- aargh

my most hated drivers go slow when you're behind them on a two-lane highway but when a passing lane appears, they speed up as if they're offended that anyone would even consider passing them. i end up passing them anyway, going 15-20 over the speed limit until they're safely behind me going the speed they would be going if no one were around. the worst of this type of driver will match my speed and try to overtake me again. i ran into one of these the other day but i caught up with another car in the second lane and stalled out next to them, cutting the dickweed off. i'm a ruthless bitch to shitty drivers.

i am that guy who taps my brakes if people are driving too close behind me.

I do nothing to anyone because any dumbass might have a gun out here in the thunderdome

My motoring prejudices are rich and varied:

I maintain a special bigotry for right-wing/anti-choice stickers. So many angry moments of getting cut off by an Excursion/Hummer with one of those W The President stickers.

There's a doddering old man in my neighborhood whose entire minivan is covered in Ron Paul and conspiracy stickers, that one's kind of adorable.

Exurban megachurch stickers ("christian men's harvest festival in Anaheim Stadium") are a sure sign that the giant pickup truck or SUV will cut you off and then get angry at you for being in their way.

map otm